Same God as muslims??

[SoulRebel111]

ran into a protestant who say’s that since our Pope’s say Allah and the Christian God are the same , they are false teachers.

What I need is some documentation from JP2 AND Pope Ben, that clearly show’s Christ is the only way to heaven. Didn’t JP2 Write something that says By Christ alone? Does anyone have a link to that document? Any Documentation that can Show our Last two popes wrote about the supremacy of CHRIST would very much appreciated…

also anything that shows we don’t believe in the Same God in the full sense of the meaning.

 

[JohnSanzone5]

ran into a protestant who say’s that since our Pope’s say Allah and the Christian God are the same , they are false teachers.

What I need is some documentation from JP2 AND Pope Ben, that clearly show’s Christ is the only way to heaven. Didn’t JP2 Write something that says By Christ alone? Does anyone have a link to that document? Any Documentation that can Show our Last two popes wrote about the supremacy of CHRIST would very much appreciated…

also anything that shows we don’t believe in the Same God in the full sense of the meaning.

Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus

Wiki that for tons more info. Christ is the Church.

The important point is that–even in the absence of positive statements by the Holy Father–there is the significance that neither Pope abrogated this doctrine to accommodate mohammadens by exercise of their Magisterial authority (the much-talked-of Papal Infallibility).

Based on my understanding of the strange and twisted doctrines of the mohammadens, one of their core beliefs (the Pillar of Islam) is the phrase: ‘There is no god beside Allah, and mohammad is his prophet.’ By uttering this phrase, you are a mohammaden, and in Classical Shari’a law, it is impermissible for a good mohammaden to kill you.

Because neither Pope would endorse this phrase–we do not believe in Allah, specifically–and therefore their god is not our God.

 

[JohnSanzone5]

I should add that even the Protestant ‘Solus Christus’ (only by our Lord [can one expect salvation]) is made more specific. Only through the Roman Catholic Church–in its capacity as Christ’s Bride–can one be saved.

So it is even more specific than the Protestant belief, which can be twisted to heretical extremes: for instance, if one attempts to reduce our Lord to the status of a mohammaden prophet.

 

[Anna_Gregorach]

I believe the explanation on this issue can be found on Genesis 18. As you shall see, Arab muslims are descendants of Ishmael, Son of Abraham and his concubine Hagar. Both Hagar and her son believed in God. However, it was Isaac, and not Ishmael, to inherit the Covenant.

Hence, the misunderstanding that, even nowadays, that muslims and christians share the same God. And It`s well likely it might have been so at the beginning - as Ishmael himself and his Mother were Christians.

Even though, we share some of the Doctrines of the Old Testament, such as the 10 Commandments, which can be found on the Koran as well, the god that the muslims have come to worship is just a copy of the real God. Because anybody who fails to recognise -and to aknowledge - God and Jesus Christ as one, cannot claim to know -nor to worship- the one and only God.

Ive done some searching and havent found yet anything related to the Pope making such a statement. In any case, we share the same God with Protestantism and with any other Christian religions that regard Him and Jesus as one. Obviously this lad has no idea what he is talking about,so dont let him get to ya.

Cheers.

 

[Just_Lurking]

This is what Vatican II said about this (see here):

1. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.

Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.

 

[JohnSanzone5]

This is what Vatican II said about this (see here):

1. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.

Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.

Curses! Foiled by V2 again…

 

[Podo2005]

**“Outside the Church there is no salvation” **
[846](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/846.htm’) How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. **Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
**
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, **do not know Christ and his Church: **
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
[848](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/848.htm’) "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, **the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338 **

 

[mskejj]

It is the Muslim’s concept of who God is that is a major difference…while we see God as our Father in Heaven who loves us as a Father loves his son…they see God as Master and they are slaves (property) of God. In the Christian religion, God is our Father who loves us as part of his family and we will share his divine life through Jesus Christ…we are in relationship with him. They believe in the one true God as we do, but their concept of who He is in relation to his people is very different than ours. To speak of God as our Father is considered blasphemus to them…

 

[Mark77]

ran into a protestant who say’s that since our Pope’s say Allah and the Christian God are the same , they are false teachers.

What I need is some documentation from JP2 AND Pope Ben, that clearly show’s Christ is the only way to heaven. Didn’t JP2 Write something that says By Christ alone? Does anyone have a link to that document? Any Documentation that can Show our Last two popes wrote about the supremacy of CHRIST would very much appreciated…

also anything that shows we don’t believe in the Same God in the full sense of the meaning.

Papal Encyclicals can be found here (Vatican website); papalencyclicals.net/

Sounds like this sadly misinformed individual has no concept whatsoever of the Catholic Church, her founding by Jesus Christ (not Martin Luther or Calvin or some other mere man!), her 2000 years of Apostolic teaching & Magisterium.

Sounds like a great chance to witness to this poor misguided person!

Some great answers above. Use this Link to search the Catechism of the Catholic Church scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

 

[UncommonGrace]

I’ve been confused about this as well, given CCC 841:
The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

Can someone explain this better?

 

[hellopeople]

I’ve been confused about this as well, given CCC 841:
The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

Can someone explain this better?

Seems clear to me…We worship the same God as the Muslims. What is unclear about that?

 

[Anna_Gregorach]

That`s right. We believe in the same God. Indeed,they do not address to God -nor think of him as their Father. Probably because he is not. Even if it is the same God. Not implying our Father has no love for them -I could never make such a statement, or believe God to be resentful nor incapable of not loving anybody, as we are all part of His Creation.

Based on Genesis, the first (Arab)muslims descended from Ishmael, son of Abraham. However, Ishmael and his descendants were excluded from the Covenant, but were never left defenceless by the Lord, for He made them a great nation. Hence, they are loved by Our Lord, but might not be considered as His Children (not even by themselves)).But being excluded from the Covenant does not mean theyve been excluded from the Lords Plan at all tho. But the fate of the Children of Ishmael was different from the fate of Isaac`s Children. Although it does not mean muslims cannot convert to catholicism and escape their fate.

His Plan regarding the muslims shall remain unbeknownst until the Reckoning Day comes. But surely the Lord shall take their good and bad actions into account when their turn comes to be judged, just as we all shall be.

In other words:
1.- Yes, they do believe in the same God as we do.
2.- Yes, they may achieve salvation as well (just as any other soul who has never been evangelised, but has somehow remained in the good path and stayed away from evil)
3.- Their relationship with God is well different from our relationship with Him. They may not address to Him as 'Father`. Does not mean they are not loved by Him.

 

[UncommonGrace]

In other words:
1.- Yes, they do believe in the same God as we do.
2.- Yes, they may achieve salvation as well (just as any other soul who has never been evangelised, but has somehow remained in the good path and stayed away from evil)
3.- Their relationship with God is well different from our relationship with Him. They may not address to Him as 'Father`. Does not mean they are not loved by Him.

That helps a lot. Thank you.

 

[Geremia]

Didn’t JP2 Write something that says By Christ alone? Does anyone have a link to that document?

Dominus Iesus is exactly the document for which you are looking; it was led by then-Card. Ratzinger under the pontificate of John Paul II.%between%

 

[Robbinson]

That`s right. We believe in the same God. Indeed,they do not address to God -nor think of him as their Father. Probably because he is not. Even if it is the same God. Not implying our Father has no love for them -I could never make such a statement, or believe God to be resentful nor incapable of not loving anybody, as we are all part of His Creation.

Based on Genesis, the first (Arab)muslims descended from Ishmael, son of Abraham. However, Ishmael and his descendants were excluded from the Covenant, but were never left defenceless by the Lord, for He made them a great nation. Hence, they are loved by Our Lord, but might not be considered as His Children (not even by themselves)).But being excluded from the Covenant does not mean theyve been excluded from the Lords Plan at all tho. But the fate of the Children of Ishmael was different from the fate of Isaac`s Children. Although it does not mean muslims cannot convert to catholicism and escape their fate.

His Plan regarding the muslims shall remain unbeknownst until the Reckoning Day comes. But surely the Lord shall take their good and bad actions into account when their turn comes to be judged, just as we all shall be.

In other words:
1.- Yes, they do believe in the same God as we do.
2.- Yes, they may achieve salvation as well (just as any other soul who has never been evangelised, but has somehow remained in the good path and stayed away from evil)
3.- Their relationship with God is well different from our relationship with Him. They may not address to Him as 'Father`. Does not mean they are not loved by Him.

I agree with most of this (and most importantly, with your 3 “in other words”- I’d add, however, that their understanding of God is adversely affected by their straying from the revelation of God in the Hebrew scriptures and NT - but we are “brothers” worshipping the same God. Similarly, jewish non-believers worship the Father without an understanding of the Trinitarian nature of God and without acnkowleding the son.

We should embrace each other - share the truth and be willing to defend it, but let God work out our respective salvation. He is the judge. We so often try to play that role ourselves whether its Catholic v. Protestant; Protestant denomination x v. Protestant denomination y - Christian v. Jew or Muslem, etc.

Preach the gospel, and if neccessary, use words (st. francis assissi - a very wise man).

Blessings.

Brian