Same God Different Worship?

[johndaniel]

Agree with him on the part the truth that he does have. Regardless of denomination, We do worship the same God. As the Vatican II Decree on Ecumenism rightly points outs, the many different Christian communities professing Christ in different ways as if Christ were divided “scandalizes the world, and damages that most holy cause, the preaching of the Gospel to every creature.”
During a class that I took, the assistant professor kept talking about individual truth. My response was the Indian parable of the blind men and the elephant. Each blind man described the elephant differently, each having only part of the truth. None of them had the whole truth which was the elephant. Truth does not change.

Of course truth does not change. However, grasping the proverbial elephant and proclaiming, “Jesus is not divine in any way whatsoever and the Catholic Church worships three gods and a goddess,” is not grasping any of the truth. Therefore, do we worship the same God as those who proclaim such a thing, just because they proclaim to accept the God of Abraham, while simultaneously rejecting His Son, The Holy Ghost, and the Mother of His Son? I really am not trying to upset anyone, I’m actually curious for my own sake.

 

[DebChris]

Of course truth does not change. However, grasping the proverbial elephant and proclaiming, “Jesus is not divine in any way whatsoever and the Catholic Church worships three gods and a goddess,” is not grasping any of the truth. Therefore, do we worship the same God as those who proclaim such a thing, just because they proclaim to accept the God of Abraham, while simultaneously rejecting His Son, The Holy Ghost, and the Mother of His Son? I really am not trying to upset anyone, I’m actually curious for my own sake.

I have been to non-Catholic worship services as they prayed for the conversion of Catholics. Later, during discussions on the Resurrection of Jesus Chris and discovering that I was Catholic, they were dumbfounded and proclaimed, “I didn’t know Catholics believed that!” I never argue with my non-Catholic brothers and sisters. Pope Benedict XVi said dialogue is communication across differences. I begin with those things with which we do agree.
As we get to know each other, and develop relationships, our misconceptions about what others believe diminish I do not accept what somebody tells me that another religion or denomination believes without speaking directly with a member of the denomination or religion. As part of another class I wrote a paper about Mennonites. I went directly to their informational website as an example. I also spent time with one of the Mennonites who regularly had a stall at the local Farmer’s Market. .

I have a Muslim friend who would deny that we worship the same God because he does not accept the divinity of Jesus Christ. He cannot grasp the concept of the Trinity, which of course is a mystery that he expected me to explain in a few minutes. He was trying to use logic to move to faith which I infer is how he came to Islam. On the other hand, I have many Muslim friends who accept that we do indeed worship the one and only God, the God of Abraham.

 

[rinnie]

Of course truth does not change. However, grasping the proverbial elephant and proclaiming, “Jesus is not divine in any way whatsoever and the Catholic Church worships three gods and a goddess,” is not grasping any of the truth. Therefore, do we worship the same God as those who proclaim such a thing, just because they proclaim to accept the God of Abraham, while simultaneously rejecting His Son, The Holy Ghost, and the Mother of His Son? I really am not trying to upset anyone, I’m actually curious for my own sake.

Then think what you are asking and keep it simple. They worship the God of Abraham. Do you feel the God of Abraham is a false God?

If you know who the God of Abraham you must say no.

Did the followers in the O.T. worship the God of Abraham in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit as we are taught? No? Why? Simply it was not revealed to them as it was to us.

Many Jews still do not accept the N.T. as the true word of God. Does that make it false? Of course not.

But the point is because everyone does not understand the fullness of the truth in the teachings of the Church does not make a false god.

We are all called to the Church and hope we can all be united as brothers and sisters in the Catholic Church someday.

But we cannot become united in anyway when we refuse to accept the truth they do have.

 

[johndaniel]

I have been to non-Catholic worship services as they prayed for the conversion of Catholics. Later, during discussions on the Resurrection of Jesus Chris and discovering that I was Catholic, they were dumbfounded and proclaimed, “I didn’t know Catholics believed that!” I never argue with my non-Catholic brothers and sisters. Pope Benedict XVi said dialogue is communication across differences. I begin with those things with which we do agree.
As we get to know each other, and develop relationships, our misconceptions about what others believe diminish I do not accept what somebody tells me that another religion or denomination believes without speaking directly with a member of the denomination or religion. As part of another class I wrote a paper about Mennonites. I went directly to their informational website as an example. I also spent time with one of the Mennonites who regularly had a stall at the local Farmer’s Market. .

I have a Muslim friend who would deny that we worship the same God because he does not accept the divinity of Jesus Christ. He cannot grasp the concept of the Trinity, which of course is a mystery that he expected me to explain in a few minutes. He was trying to use logic to move to faith which I infer is how he came to Islam. On the other hand, I have many Muslim friends who accept that we do indeed worship the one and only God, the God of Abraham.

So, would you say they worship only God the Father, or would you say that, in worshiping the God of Abraham, they inadvertently worship the entire Trinity?

 

[johndaniel]

Then think what you are asking and keep it simple. They worship the God of Abraham. Do you feel the God of Abraham is a false God?

If you know who the God of Abraham you must say no.

Did the followers in the O.T. worship the God of Abraham in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit as we are taught? No? Why? Simply it was not revealed to them as it was to us.

Many Jews still do not accept the N.T. as the true word of God. Does that make it false? Of course not.

But the point is because everyone does not understand the fullness of the truth in the teachings of the Church does not make a false god.

We are all called to the Church and hope we can all be united as brothers and sisters in the Catholic Church someday.

But we cannot become united in anyway when we refuse to accept the truth they do have.

I suppose I have a tendency to over-complicate matters. Thank you for the explanation!

 

[DebChris]

So, would you say they worship only God the Father, or would you say that, in worshiping the God of Abraham, they inadvertently worship the entire Trinity?

When the Apostles asked Jesus how to pray, He taught them the Our Father. This is quite radical. As Christians, we are the only religion who speaks of God in such familial terms. We dare call God “Father.” That makes Jesus our brother. He called out, “Abba,” which means “Daddy,” As Catholics, we further hold that the Holy Spirit dwells within each one of us by virtue of the Sacraments. I am not suggesting that we show any less reverence. I want to avoid leading this thread off track. I do think that I will avoid answering the question directly.

Jews await the coming of the Messiah. Muslims deny the Trinity. While they accept that a man named Jesus walked on Earth, they deny His divinity, and they have no understanding of the Holy Spirit. Islam means “Submission to God.” They talk often of God’s will. When things go well, they “Praise God” for their good fortune.

Pulling this back to the OP, we are worshiping the same God. As Christians we speak in the same familial terms. Our non-Catholic brothers and sisters miss out on the richness of the Sacraments.

 

[Hyrophant]

It matters what Church you are in, but it matters more which God you pray to. Many people are in the Catholic Church and are being led astray. They will leave in search of the truth elsewhere and will find it. The irony is that when they do, they will return to the Catholic Church.

Your cousin may be in the Baptist Church, but at least he is not Wiccan or Sanitarian. He has a descent Bible and is getting teaching that is descent. Probably more descent than he may get going to many of the Catholic Churches. As long as he loves Jesus, Jesus will lead him to the truth.

God is real, living and active. He is more than a religion, philosophy, life style, doctrine or teaching. Anyone can benefit from what your cousin has, no matter what Church he is in.

 

[aidanbradypop]

I have a cousin who is about to become a Baptist so i asked him why and had a nice small discussion about it. It was friendly, nonchalant, and very interesting. I did eventually ask him what his thoughts on Catholicism were and all that Jazz. His response is what my question is.

He said that to him it doesn’t matter what Church you belong to as long as you’re praying to the same God, it’s just that we all have different ways of worshiping him. And i had no idea how to respond to it. I know that it runs along the line of Relativism and Indifferentism.

So, how can i argue this point?

God Bless

Then why become Baptist or Catholic? Why not just worship on the sofa Sunday morning?

Jews worship the same God…

 

[Ral91]

As a Protestant with a Catholic Boyfriend this subject has come up many times - always in a good way never negative. My boyfriends father (a devout Catholic) said this to me 'I have my ways and you have yours. I highly doubt when we die there will be sign saying Protestants to the left and Catholics to the right. Essentially we are the same, different practices but ultimately we all have God in common! ’

 

[ffg]

For most Protestants:

1. They reject the presence of Christ in the Eucharist, meaning they deny the Eucharistic God.

This point got me thinking about the significance of the ‘true presence’ teaching and the focus of the term “coming again in Glory” moving from the word ‘again’ to the words ‘in Glory’.

I’m just throwing out a thought process here -

When Jesus came to the earth, he ensured his physical presence on the planet until the end of time. To accomplish this through the limits of the natural law, he is pulling this off through the miracle of the Eucharist.

Jesus in the Eucharist is no different than Jesus on the beach talking to some fishermen as others stroll by behind them.

If he came to the world for those people to see him, why wouldn’t he setup a system so it would be possible for the rest of the people to see him? Thus the Church and Mass given to the apostles.

I always thought about the ‘coming again in Glory’ as the second coming, but the focus was similar to “he’s gone, waiting”.

With the miracle of the Eucharist, he is here in his sacrificed state, and the ‘come again’ is to replace his current presence with the new glorified resurrected one. At which time the Eucharist will be replaced / not needed.

Point being, he is here and present as true now as when he walked the earth. Something that even a lifelong Catholic needs to ponder once in a while.

This is me thinking, I don’t think anything is against church teaching, but I’m sure someone will correct if necessary.

 

[Bballer32]

As a Protestant with a Catholic Boyfriend this subject has come up many times - always in a good way never negative. My boyfriends father (a devout Catholic) said this to me 'I have my ways and you have yours. I highly doubt when we die there will be sign saying Protestants to the left and Catholics to the right. Essentially we are the same, different practices but ultimately we all have God in common! ’

Yes of course we do worship the Same God, but that’s the problem! If all that matters is that we are the same no matter what Christian we are then whats the point of even joining a Church?

For Example: 2 Guys love God with all their heart and are aware of all that goes on around them in the world. But, Guy 1 goes to a Catholic Church every Sunday and almost every weekday. Guy 2 wakes up, grabs a Bible, reads it, says a few prayers and goes on with his day. According to what you stated above, both Guys worship God but in different ways and therefore will go to heaven on what THEY do, not what is necessary to do.

Do you find anything wrong with that? I do. Christ didn’t come to the world saying “Worship God how you think he wants to and you will enter heaven.” There are many things wrong with this belief. First, if someone thought that killing animals and offering them up to God as a burnt holocaust and then going out streaking with fire for 2 hours in front of the town as the idea that that is what God wants, does that mean he will go to heaven? Is it the same as let’s say a Protestant Worship service or a Catholic Mass? According to your idea the man will go to heaven. The second thing wrong with this idea is that even Christ himself said “Not everyone who says ‘Lord’ ‘Lord’ will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.” So this means that a.) there must be a certain way to worship and b.) there is obviously only one way to get to heaven.

 

[johndaniel]

When the Apostles asked Jesus how to pray, He taught them the Our Father. This is quite radical. As Christians, we are the only religion who speaks of God in such familial terms. We dare call God “Father.” That makes Jesus our brother. He called out, “Abba,” which means “Daddy,”

Don’t Hindus and Jews also call God ‘Father’? I know, at least, that in Hinduism, a view of God as parent, sibling, child, friend, spouse, or lover is acceptable.

As Catholics, we further hold that the Holy Spirit dwells within each one of us by virtue of the Sacraments. I am not suggesting that we show any less reverence. I want to avoid leading this thread off track. I do think that I will avoid answering the question directly.

I can understand that.

Jews await the coming of the Messiah. Muslims deny the Trinity. While they accept that a man named Jesus walked on Earth, they deny His divinity, and they have no understanding of the Holy Spirit. Islam means “Submission to God.” They talk often of God’s will. When things go well, they “Praise God” for their good fortune.

Yes, I know this.

 

[johndaniel]

This point got me thinking about the significance of the ‘true presence’ teaching and the focus of the term “coming again in Glory” moving from the word ‘again’ to the words ‘in Glory’.

I’m just throwing out a thought process here -

When Jesus came to the earth, he ensured his physical presence on the planet until the end of time. To accomplish this through the limits of the natural law, he is pulling this off through the miracle of the Eucharist.

Jesus in the Eucharist is no different than Jesus on the beach talking to some fishermen as others stroll by behind them.

If he came to the world for those people to see him, why wouldn’t he setup a system so it would be possible for the rest of the people to see him? Thus the Church and Mass given to the apostles.

I always thought about the ‘coming again in Glory’ as the second coming, but the focus was similar to “he’s gone, waiting”.

With the miracle of the Eucharist, he is here in his sacrificed state, and the ‘come again’ is to replace his current presence with the new glorified resurrected one. At which time the Eucharist will be replaced / not needed.

Point being, he is here and present as true now as when he walked the earth. Something that even a lifelong Catholic needs to ponder once in a while.

This is me thinking, I don’t think anything is against church teaching, but I’m sure someone will correct if necessary.

This is kind of my thought process, as well. If one denies Jesus’ presence in the Eucharist, aren’t they rejecting Jesus, and thereby rejecting God? I’m not sure on this yet, but it is hard to imagine how one can reject Jesus’ presence in the Eucharist and not reject our God.

 

[DebChris]

Don’t Hindus and Jews also call God ‘Father’? I know, at least, that in Hinduism, a view of God as parent, sibling, child, friend, spouse, or lover is acceptable.
.

Hindus have a multitude of gods and goddesses that symbolize the one abstract Supreme Being or Brahman. The most fundamental of Hindu deities are the Trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.hinduism.about.com/od/godsgoddesses/tp/deities.htm
religionfacts.com/big_religion_chart.htm

 

[universityprof]

I have a cousin who is about to become a Baptist so i asked him why and had a nice small discussion about it. It was friendly, nonchalant, and very interesting. I did eventually ask him what his thoughts on Catholicism were and all that Jazz. His response is what my question is.

He said that to him it doesn’t matter what Church you belong to as long as you’re praying to the same God, it’s just that we all have different ways of worshiping him. And i had no idea how to respond to it. I know that it runs along the line of Relativism and Indifferentism.

So, how can i argue this point?

God Bless

As a suggestons, don’t argue the point. Let him worship in his faith tradition and you in yours. Why would you want to argue faith tradition. It is a fact that we all are worshiping Christ, regardelss of denomination. Perhaps we do this all in slightly nuanced ways. By the way, not sure about your statement about running along the line of relativism. I don’t believe that’s the case here. Stricktly speaking, it’s simply a matter of him chosinig another faith tradition than yours. Which is fine.

 

[rinnie]

This is kind of my thought process, as well. If one denies Jesus’ presence in the Eucharist, aren’t they rejecting Jesus, and thereby rejecting God? I’m not sure on this yet, but it is hard to imagine how one can reject Jesus’ presence in the Eucharist and not reject our God.

That is an excellent point. One I have made over and over again. To accuse a Jew or a Mulsim of worshipping a false God because they cannot see God in the Trinity.

Just because we all have a different understanding of the One True God or a false teaching does not make the One True God false, only ones teaching or understanding false.

That is why Jesus left us the Church not the bible. The Church is here to teach us what we need to know. And teach us the true understanding of the Scripture we read.

It is our Pope in the RCC who teaches us what is true and how to understand things that we cannot understand.

It is our Pope who teaches there is One True God and 3 Religions or faiths follow the One True God.

But it is also with this understanding that he teaches us that not all of the 3 faiths that worship the one True God, do it perfect within the teachings of the Church.

Just as we cannot accuse a Christian who can see Christ in the Trinity but not in the Eucharist as following a false god.

It is the same as a Jew or Muslim who cannot see Christ in the Trinity.

Because our brothers and sisters cannot see the fullness of the Catholic faith, gives us no reason to condemn the truth they do indeed have.

There is alot of hate instead of Love for oneanother here because many do not have the teaching as we do in the Church.

I just wonder what would God think of us

Of a Jew who condemns a Christian for seeing God in the Trinity.

Or the Christian who does and condemns the Jews or Muslims who cannot.

We are all brothers and sisters in the faith of Abraham. I pray someday we can begin to act like it. And come together as a family the way GOD wants.

 

[johndaniel]

Hindus have a multitude of gods and goddesses that symbolize the one abstract Supreme Being or Brahman. The most fundamental of Hindu deities are the Trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.hinduism.about.com/od/godsgoddesses/tp/deities.htm
religionfacts.com/big_religion_chart.htm

I know a lot about Hinduism. I’ve actually had less trouble praying with Hindus than I have with Protestants. I know that sounds strange, but Hindus always seem much more open to worship of the Trinity and prayers to the Blessed Virgin than the Protestants I know, so I find it easier to pray with them.

 

[johndaniel]

That is an excellent point. One I have made over and over again. To accuse a Jew or a Mulsim of worshipping a false God because they cannot see God in the Trinity.

Just because we all have a different understanding of the One True God or a false teaching does not make the One True God false, only ones teaching or understanding false.

That is why Jesus left us the Church not the bible. The Church is here to teach us what we need to know. And teach us the true understanding of the Scripture we read.

It is our Pope in the RCC who teaches us what is true and how to understand things that we cannot understand.

It is our Pope who teaches there is One True God and 3 Religions or faiths follow the One True God.

But it is also with this understanding that he teaches us that not all of the 3 faiths that worship the one True God, do it perfect within the teachings of the Church.

Just as we cannot accuse a Christian who can see Christ in the Trinity but not in the Eucharist as following a false god.

It is the same as a Jew or Muslim who cannot see Christ in the Trinity.

Because our brothers and sisters cannot see the fullness of the Catholic faith, gives us no reason to condemn the truth they do indeed have.

There is alot of hate instead of Love for oneanother here because many do not have the teaching as we do in the Church.

I just wonder what would God think of us

Of a Jew who condemns a Christian for seeing God in the Trinity.

Or the Christian who does and condemns the Jews or Muslims who cannot.

We are all brothers and sisters in the faith of Abraham. I pray someday we can begin to act like it. And come together as a family the way GOD wants.

This was a very good point: “Or the Christian who does and condemns the Jews or Muslims who cannot.”
I like that.