Same God in other religions

[Robert_in_SD]

Robert, I don’t want to start a argument over this and derail this thread, but are you saying that religions that do not worship the Triune God aka Jews and Muslims worship the same God as Christianity?

If we are to take them at their word… that they worship the same God of Abraham that we worship, then yes that is exactly what I am saying.

workingman:

Yes they claim the same God as Abraham but it is not the Christian God that they worship.

What support do you have for this conclusion. It appears to me that they adore the same God as Christianity, even though they do not accept the entirety of what God has revealed about His triune nature. I can only proceed based upon what Judaism and Islam state, and as both claim to worship the same God of Abraham I must conclude that we are all praying to the same God, although we hold different understandings regarding His nature.

workingman:

At the risk of sounding offensive if one does not worship the Triune God then would it not be a different god? IMO yes it would. It has nothing to do with clarity. One ether worships the Triune God or one does not. Now that does not mean there should not be dialog, but to say it is the same God is going to far IMO.

No offense taken. I disagree with your conclusion. It does not follow that because one group of God worshippers perceives His triune nature while another group does not, that they must necessarily be worshipping different Gods. Regarding the difference, it is not God that is changing between groups, but the accepted doctrines concerning the nature of God. So, while it is true that one either accepts the doctrine of the Trinity or one does not, it does not necessarily follow that because a person rejects the Trinity one is no longer praying to God. Oneness pentecostals reject the Triune nature of God, and yet I would be hard pressed to find a Oneness pentecostal who concludes that his God is not the same God of the Baptists down the street. Certainly, there are doctrinal differences, but there is the same orientation towards the same One God.

Peace,
Robert

P.S. Stated another way, Judaism, Christianity and Islam all proclaim that there is One God and no other God. If that is the case, all three religions are oriented toward the same God. Christains, however, see God through the fullness of revelation while Judaism and Islam reject those teachings concerning His triune nature.

I mean no offense either.

Peace,
Robert

 

[workingman]

Robert in SD;5356766]If we are to take them at their word… that they worship the same God of Abraham that we worship, then yes that is exactly what I am saying.

Ok on the same page

What support do you have for this conclusion. It appears to me that they adore the same God as Christianity, even though they do not accept the entirety of what God has revealed about His triune nature. I can only proceed based upon what Judaism and Islam state, and as both claim to worship the same God of Abraham I must conclude that we are all praying to the same God, although we hold different understandings regarding His nature.

Not a lot more opinion. It just seems to me if one is going to deny the trinity how can it be the same God. The trinity should not be split that would make it monotheistic (sp?)

No offense taken. I disagree with your conclusion. It does not follow that because one group of God worshippers perceives His triune nature while another group does not, that they must necessarily be worshipping different Gods. Regarding the difference, it is not God that is changing between groups, but the accepted doctrines concerning the nature of God. So, while it is true that one either accepts the doctrine of the Trinity or one does not, it does not necessarily follow that because a person rejects the Trinity one is no longer praying to God. Oneness pentecostals reject the Triune nature of God, and yet I would be hard pressed to find a Oneness pentecostal who concludes that his God is not the same God of the Baptists down the street. Certainly, there are doctrinal differences, but there is the same orientation towards the same One God.

I respect and understand what you are saying. So they may claim the God of Abraham ok, but the teachings could be heretical or hetrodox.

Peace,
Robert

P.S. Stated another way, Judaism, Christianity and Islam all proclaim that there is One God and no other God. If that is the case, all three religions are oriented toward the same God. Christains, however, see God through the fullness of revelation while Judaism and Islam reject those teachings concerning His triune nature.

I mean no offense either.

Peace,
Robert

So we all aquknowledge the God that crated all the Triune God but Islam and Judaism deny the trinity the way we know it as Christian. So there teachings are hetrodox at best. I pray for their souls.

God bless.

P.S. I am sort of new to the CC but does the CC teach that Islamic’s and Judaism also go to heaven as Christians understand it? If that is the case what happened I believe to the teaching that there is no salvation out side of the Church. I just want to understand the Churches teachings on this and be in compliance. I will continue to pray for their conversion.

God bless

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Wow, I’d have never pegged you for believing there were multiple gods. And you capitalize Islam’s as well as youre.
ple God?

Where here did I say there are multiple God’s? Show me where I said that. Is there something wrong with your thought process? Muslims believe that their God is our God. But if you were so smart, you’d already know that.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

And I pity your two cents for thinking this way. You are so far from the truth it isn’t funny.

Well, thankfully, it’s just you, so I don’t take that personally.

But, I think you helped me support my point… So very much that isn’t even funny.

Ironically Yours.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

SpiritMeadow;5356322:

Wow, I’d have never pegged you for believing there were multiple gods. And you capitalize Islam’s as well as youre.
ple God?

Where here did I say there are multiple God’s? Show me where I said that. Is there something wrong with your thought process? Muslims believe that their God is our God. But if you were so smart, you’d already know that.

You said there were. If you claim that the God of Islam is not your God, then it must be a different one. That makes at least 2. You as always can be counted on to be rude. My thought process is just fine. Muslims don’t believe their God is ours, They believe it is God, period. God belongs to everyone I would assume. I don’t make claims to be smart, I’ll leave that to you.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Well, thankfully, it’s just you, so I don’t take that personally.

But, I think you helped me support my point… So very much that isn’t even funny.

Ironically Yours.

She can always be counted on to do that at least once per thread, sometimes more!

 

[Hadi]

“We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; Our God and your God is one, and unto Him we surrender” (Quran 29:46)

 

[aball1035]

Sorry, but I’m unclear what you mean.

I mean that false religions can call whatever they want as their god, (tree, emotion, what have you), but that doesn’t mean that they’re actually praying to God.

 

[JJ59]

Do other religions worship the same god as Catholics? Is it yes or no, or more of a scale (more so or less so)

Interesting question…

I’m not really sure, though, what people really mean by “the same god”. I mean, how many things have to be the same for a god to be the same as the Christian God? Does he have to be Triune? Does he have to be loving? etc. etc.

So for my opinion, consider this: If 2 people are watching the News on TV, and one person’s TV set is clear and the other’s is blurry, are they watching the same newscaster? Why yes.

As I see it, all religions worship the same god, though it has been changed and warped somewhat from the Christian God. Whether it be Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, or the Bahá’í Faith, God reveals Himself, and different religions take on different opinions and ideas about Him. (I’m not necessarily condoning all other religions, though)

God bless,

 

[Eleve]

If we are to take them at their word… that they worship the same God of Abraham that we worship, then yes that is exactly what I am saying.

And Abraham himself was Jewish, so I don’t see how it could be said that Jews don’t worship the God of Abraham.

Christians believe that the God who became flesh in the person of Jesus Christ had previously revealed himself to the Israelites and instituted the commandments of Judaism. I think that Christians have to agree that Jews worship one person of the Trinity, each of which has the full essence of God, and so to a large extent they are worshiping the same God.

 

[wxboss]

Do other religions worship the same god as Catholics? Is it yes or no, or more of a scale (more so or less so)

John 4:24 says:
*God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.
*
Here, Jesus clearly states to Whom and how true worship is conducted.

The Bible is God’s revelation of Himself - it’s not an encapsulation of Him. You could easily liken the Bible to a love letter sent from a girlfriend wherein she expresses a desire and interest in being able to get to know you better. And as the relationship progresses, you’re able discover more about her as the trust and love between the both of you grows and matures.

As your interest increases, an intoxication of sorts takes place. She seems to take over all your thoughts - you can’t stop thinking about her. You will probably have a desire to provide for her and protect her from those ‘wolves’ (with their selfish, destructive desires) you know are lurking around every corner. A desire to be with her more and more begins to consume you.

The Bible is just such a letter. A letter of a continuous revelation of God Almighty to His beloved - us. It is a letter that is meaningless to those who have no relationship with nor desire to know the One who wrote it.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

“We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; Our God and your God is one, and unto Him we surrender” (Quran 29:46)

So much for what you think Muslims believe Spiritmeadow… Ha…

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I mean that false religions can call whatever they want as their god, (tree, emotion, what have you), but that doesn’t mean that they’re actually praying to God.

So you believe that God simply ignores people who don’t pray to him in the correct way? Is that your idea of God? Or am I still misunderstanding you?

 

[SpiritMeadow]

So much for what you think Muslims believe Spiritmeadow… Ha…

I think he confirmed what I said dear. There is one God and we all worship that God. You are the one who claims that the God of Islam cannot be your God. Remember?

 

[aball1035]

So you believe that God simply ignores people who don’t pray to him in the correct way? Is that your idea of God? Or am I still misunderstanding you?

What? Did I ever say anything about God ignoring people? No! You’re looking way too much into what I said

 

[Eric_Hyom]

I believe in One God the creator of all that is seen and unseen; and when I walk through town I see a part of God’s wonderful creation. I see people who could be atheists, Christians, Muslims Hindu and all manor of people all created by the same God.

Beyond a doubt the same God hears all our prayers, and I sincerely believe that I shall never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God

God just happens to be bigger than the sum of all our religions put together.

peace

Eric

 

[SpiritMeadow]

What? Did I ever say anything about God ignoring people? No! You’re looking way too much into what I said

Then please explain what you do mean. If people are only thinking they are praying to God and actually aren’t, there must be a reason. Since God, we believe is omniscient, he knows all, he knows that some people are trying to pray to him. Either he ignores them because they aren’t doing it right, or he hears them as he hears everyone else and responds to them as he responds to anyone else. That is the clear import of what you said. If I’m missing something please enlighten me.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I believe in One God the creator of all that is seen and unseen; and when I walk through town I see a part of God’s wonderful creation. I see people who could be atheists, Christians, Muslims Hindu and all manor of people all created by the same God.

Beyond a doubt the same God hears all our prayers, and I sincerely believe that I shall never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God

God just happens to be bigger than the sum of all our religions put together.

peace

Eric

I would certainly agree with that!

 

[aball1035]

Then please explain what you do mean. If people are only thinking they are praying to God and actually aren’t, there must be a reason. Since God, we believe is omniscient, he knows all, he knows that some people are trying to pray to him. Either he ignores them because they aren’t doing it right, or he hears them as he hears everyone else and responds to them as he responds to anyone else. That is the clear import of what you said. If I’m missing something please enlighten me.

I’m sorry, maybe I’m not saying it right. I guess I’m speaking of ignorance, invincible and vincible. God judges ones heart no matter what official religion one is in, and may or may not answer their prayers if their hearts in the right place.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

I respect and understand what you are saying. So they may claim the God of Abraham ok, but the teachings could be heretical or hetrodox.

Yes. That’s essentially what I am saying.

workingman:

… but Islam and Judaism deny the trinity the way we know it as Christian. So there teachings are hetrodox… I pray for their souls.

We should all pray for their conversion to the fullness of the Christian faith.

workingman:

P.S. I am sort of new to the CC but does the CC teach that Islamic’s and Judaism also go to heaven as Christians understand it? …what happened to… no salvation out side of the Church.

This is what the CCC states about it:

**“Outside the Church there is no salvation” **

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

335 Cf. Cyprian, Ep. 73.21L 3,1169; De unit.L 4,509-536.
336 LG 14; cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5.
337 LG 16; cf. DS 3866-3872.
338 AG 7; cf. Heb 11:6; 1 Cor 9:16.

The above relies heavily on Lumen Gentium which states in pertinent part (redacted to fit the word limits):

14…the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved…

1. The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter… Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit…

1. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the [Jews]… But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God,… Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God,… Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator.(129) Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, “Preach the Gospel to every creature”,(130) the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.

The link to the full document is here. I hope this helps.

Peace,
Robert