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Thorolfr
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I’m surprised that the Church of Norway hadn’t done this sooner.
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anon67074017
Guest
The Russian Orthodox Church is closer in doctrine though.The Russian Orthodox Church also broke away from Rome.
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TonyBS
Guest
You are correct and I have badly worded my reply. It is not the marriage, but the sexual relations that is the Law.Hello Tony, I’m not aware of any of God’s laws mentioning same sex marriage.
This link is the guidance given to Baha’is
bahaicoherence.blogspot.com.au/2011/01/new-guidance-regarding-homosexuality.html?m=1
Regards Tony
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commenter
Guest
Prayers offered Father, for you regardless of where your journey leads.Those who follow Christian news may have heard that the synod in the Church of Norway have voted on in favour of allowing same-sex ‘marriage’ in the Church.
I am, as a priest in the Church of Norway, part of a group who seek alternative episcopal oversight (as in the Church of England), but I’m not especially optimistic. I was interviewed by three newspapers (because I am a vicar or parish priest who, alongside 200 others, have signed a petition, declaring that marriage is between one man and one woman), and I have said that if nothing happens before the new liturgy has been passed (it doesn’t yet exist), which will probably be in January 2017, I will have to resign my office and no longer remain as a member of the Church. I will probably, in that scenario, stay until the summer of 2017, for the sake of the youth in my confirmation class.
If it happens, I will have to go elsewhere. Where that is, I don’t know. I just know that some small Lutheran free church will not be an option. I’m not part of the Church of Norway specifically because it’s Lutheran but because it’s the historical Church of the Norwegian realm.
Prayers will be appreciated. Monday was a sad day indeed.
I think Wolfhart Pannenberg says it best, and I’ll give him the last word:
Those who urge the church to change the norm of its teaching on this matter must know that they are promoting schism. If a church were to let itself be pushed to the point where it ceased to treat homosexual activity as a departure from the biblical norm, and recognized homosexual unions as a personal partnership of love equivalent to marriage, such a church would stand no longer on biblical ground but against the unequivocal witness of Scripture. A church that took this step would cease to be the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
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Sy_Noe
Guest
Discernment takes time though and understanding evolves in the process. This journey we are on to God is lifelong. The Norway church it seems has merely found its way in the process along with several Christian denominations in the US that have as well. If I’m not mistaken, the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, the United Church of Christ, and PCUSA leave it to their pastors as to whether they celebrate marriages of 2 persons of the same gender. The Episcopal Church leaves it to bishops and upon diocesan approval, to the priest. The bishop in the Episcopal diocese where I reside approves and from my understanding many of the priests here will perform marriages for same sex couples regardless of gender. I know of United Church of Christ pastors who do as well.I’m surprised that the Church of Norway hadn’t done this sooner.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Looking deeper than the immediate crisis that this causes for Norwegian Lutherans, might it be possible that this decision is a mere symptom of a more fundamental problem inherent in all Reformation churches?
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Clearly, that moment has passed, and you will not want to remain as a representative of an unbiblical Church that is not one, holy, catholic and apostolic.If a church were to let itself be pushed to the point where it ceased to treat homosexual activity as a departure from the biblical norm, and recognized homosexual unions as a personal partnership of love equivalent to marriage, such a church would stand no longer on biblical ground but against the unequivocal witness of Scripture. A church that took this step would cease to be the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Fortunately, that Church still exists…faithful as ever to the biblical norm and the unequivocal witness of Scripture.
Perhaps God led you to this very forum for a reason.
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Sy_Noe
Guest
With all due respect, and I’m sure you are aware, as part of the decision, bishops and other church officials were granted the right to refuse to officiate homosexual marriages. Priests who do not want to celebrate a marriage between a same-sex couple will still have the right to object. So it’s clear you have the option to remain and not perform legal marriages between 2 of God’s children whose orientation and natural attraction happens to be towards a partner of the same gender.Those who follow Christian news may have heard that the synod in the Church of Norway have voted on in favour of allowing same-sex ‘marriage’ in the Church.
I am, as a priest in the Church of Norway, part of a group who seek alternative episcopal oversight (as in the Church of England), but I’m not especially optimistic. I was interviewed by three newspapers (because I am a vicar or parish priest who, alongside 200 others, have signed a petition, declaring that marriage is between one man and one woman), and I have said that if nothing happens before the new liturgy has been passed (it doesn’t yet exist), which will probably be in January 2017, I will have to resign my office and no longer remain as a member of the Church. I will probably, in that scenario, stay until the summer of 2017, for the sake of the youth in my confirmation class.
If it happens, I will have to go elsewhere. Where that is, I don’t know. I just know that some small Lutheran free church will not be an option. I’m not part of the Church of Norway specifically because it’s Lutheran but because it’s the historical Church of the Norwegian realm.
Prayers will be appreciated. Monday was a sad day indeed.
I think Wolfhart Pannenberg says it best, and I’ll give him the last word:
Those who urge the church to change the norm of its teaching on this matter must know that they are promoting schism. If a church were to let itself be pushed to the point where it ceased to treat homosexual activity as a departure from the biblical norm, and recognized homosexual unions as a personal partnership of love equivalent to marriage, such a church would stand no longer on biblical ground but against the unequivocal witness of Scripture. A church that took this step would cease to be the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
thelocal.no/20160411/norway-gay-marriage-church-weddings
reuters.com/article/us-norway-gaymarriage-idUSKCN0X81EW
But if you still believe you must go and you obviously do, then of course you will have to do what you believe you have to do. And my prayers and peace to you along your way.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Once you know that your Church leaders are teaching false doctrine, you don’t look at them the same way you did before.With all due respect, and I’m sure you are aware, as part of the decision, bishops and other church officials were granted the right to refuse to officiate homosexual marriages. Priests who do not want to celebrate a marriage between a same-sex couple will still have the right to object. So it’s clear you have the option to remain and not perform legal marriages between 2 of God’s children whose orientation and natural attraction happens to be towards a partner of the same gender.
And if they have not been prevented from teaching error now, maybe they never were.
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pablope
Guest
With all due respect, and I’m sure you are aware, as part of the decision, bishops and other church officials were granted the right to refuse to officiate homosexual marriages. Priests who do not want to celebrate a marriage between a same-sex couple will still have the right to object.
And why is this supposed to be a good thing?
So if in one parish, a priest refuses a gay couple, they then have the option to go to a parish on the next block to go to a priest that would marry them…so how does this speak of one faith, one belief and overall unity?
So, would you say then that the priest who refused to marry the gay couple is acting against God’s will?
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Sy_Noe
Guest
I know. Except I would probably substitute the word “know” in your sentence with “believe”.Once you know that your Church leaders are teaching false doctrine, you don’t look at them the same way you did before.
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Sy_Noe
Guest
And why is this supposed to be a good thing?
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pablope
Guest
pablope;13827746:
Really? Isn’t the priest to follow the teachings of the church he belongs too?No I would say the priest understands God’s will in a different way and believes he knows.
So here is the conumdrum…which one, according to you, really is following and understands truly God’s will:
a). The priest who perfoms a gay marriage
b). The priest who does not perform a gay marriage
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Sy_Noe
Guest
Sy Noe;13827789:
I guess I just don’t see the conundrum that you do if a church teaching is that the bishops or priests or pastors have the choice to celebrate a marriage or not.Really? Isn’t the priest to follow the teachings of the church he belongs too?
So here is the conumdrum…which one, according to you, really is following and understands truly God’s will:
a). The priest who perfoms a gay marriage
b). The priest who does not perform a gay marriage
Well, for now. Charles Porterfield Krauth is instruction in this.With all due respect, and I’m sure you are aware, as part of the decision, bishops and other church officials were granted the right to refuse to officiate homosexual marriages. **Priests who do not want to celebrate a marriage between a same-sex couple will still have the right to object. ** So it’s clear you have the option to remain and not perform legal marriages between 2 of God’s children whose orientation and natural attraction happens to be towards a partner of the same gender.
ISTM that the line, “Priests who do not want to celebrate a marriage between a same-sex couple will still have the right to object.”, fits into the second level - ** "The Church shall do nothing which looks like deciding between them; that would be partiality. It is bigotry to assert any superior right for the truth. "**“When error is admitted into the Church, it will be found that the stages of its progress are always three. It begins by asking toleration. Its friends say to the majority: You need not be afraid of us; we are few, and weak; only let us alone; we shall not disturb the faith of the others. The Church has her standards of doctrine; of course we shall never interfere with them; we only ask for ourselves to be spared interference with our private opinions. Indulged in this for a time, error goes on to assert equal rights. Truth and error are two balancing forces. The Church shall do nothing which looks like deciding between them; that would be partiality. It is bigotry to assert any superior right for the truth. We are to agree to differ, and any favoring of the truth, because it is truth, is partisanship. What the friends of truth and error hold in common is fundamental. Anything on which they differ is ipso facto non-essential. Anybody who makes account of such a thing is a disturber of the peace of the church. Truth and error are two co-ordinate powers, and the great secret of church-statesmanship is to preserve the balance between them. From this point error soon goes on to its natural end, which is to assert supremacy. Truth started with tolerating; it comes to be merely tolerated, and then only for a time. Error claims a preference for its judgments on all disputed points. It puts men into positions, not as at first in spite of their departure from the Church’s faith, but in consequence of it. Their recommendation is that they repudiate the faith, and position is given them to teach others to repudiate it, and to make them skillful in combating it.”
Soon, we will see, not only in Norway, but in the liberal Lutheran synods here and elsewhere, the third level - "From this point error soon goes on to its natural end, which is to assert supremacy."
IOW, that which was truth, is now error. That which was error, is now truth.
Jon
steadfastlutherans.org/2012/04/charles-porterfield-krauths-three-steps-to-doctrinal-and-ecclesial-nihilism/
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Sy_Noe
Guest
Well “for now” is all we truly have for “in the now” we exist.Well, for now. Charles Porterfield Krauth is instruction in this.
ISTM that the line, “Priests who do not want to celebrate a marriage between a same-sex couple will still have the right to object.”, fits into the second level - ** "The Church shall do nothing which looks like deciding between them; that would be partiality. It is bigotry to assert any superior right for the truth. "**
Soon, we will see, not only in Norway, but in the liberal Lutheran synods here and elsewhere, the third level - "From this point error soon goes on to its natural end, which is to assert supremacy."
IOW, that which was truth, is now error. That which was error, is now truth.
Jon
steadfastlutherans.org/2012/04/charles-porterfield-krauths-three-steps-to-doctrinal-and-ecclesial-nihilism/
Truth is eternal, not anchored in the “now” of men.Well “for now” is all we truly have for “in the now” we exist.
Jon
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Thorolfr
Guest
Truth is eternal, huh? According to Leviticus 25:44-46:Truth is eternal, not anchored in the “now” of men.
Jon
So if that is eternal truth, would God see nothing wrong if I wanted to have a Mexican slave that I could have as my property and that my children could inherit as property?44 As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. 45 You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you, and from their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. 46 You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property.
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Sy_Noe
Guest
Sure once we get there and truly know it rather than merely believing we know. In the meantime no one is forcing you to be part of a more liberal faith just as no one is forcing me to be part of a conservative one. I’m at peace where I am away from the conservative faiths as I imagine you are being away from the “more liberal Lutheran synods” which you alluded too. We each walk our faith journeys in the meantime. That’s not a problem for me.Truth is eternal, not anchored in the “now” of men.
Jon
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Sy_Noe
Guest
Well only if you’re near the nation of Mexico or the ones living with you or their families aren’t deported across the big wall. But your example is one start, Thorolfr. Thank you for it.Truth is eternal, huh? According to Leviticus 25:44-46:
So if that is eternal truth, would God see nothing wrong if I wanted to have a Mexican slave that I could have as my property and that my children could inherit as property?
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