Same-Sex Attraction - A cruel joke?

[LCMS_No_More]

As a person afflicted with same-sex attractions (SSA), I can’t help to think sometimes that I am the hind-end of some sort of cosmic joke. Here’s why:

1. Apparent condemnation to a life of loneliness.
2. Hatred, or at the very least suspicion, by people in the Church (not the Church herself) as well as other non-Catholic Christians. On these very boards, there have been posters who have almost come right out and said that a person with SSA is beyond any hope of salvation, whether they are trying to live in accord with the Church’s teachings as stated in the CCC.
3. No apparent meaningful vocation. Both the priesthood and marriage are closed to people with SSA. In my case, the single life holds no excitement or prospects for joy…refer to #1.

So…SSA…cruel cosmic joke or cruel fate? Either way, I don’t see why God would allow a person to turn out to be hated and despised by His OWN people, even when said person tries to do the right thing, they are considered suspect, except as a joke.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

…I don’t see why God would allow a person to turn out to be hated and despised by His OWN people…

The New Testament has loads to say on this topic. Jesus was hated and despised by His own people. If people revile you and hate you for your desires, then you are unjustly persecuted. Read the Beatitudes, and learn of your *tremendous dignity *among the people of God.

Just don’t use the persecution as an excuse to sin.

 

[SFO]

As a person afflicted with same-sex attractions (SSA), I can’t help to think sometimes that I am the hind-end of some sort of cosmic joke. Here’s why:

1. Apparent condemnation to a life of loneliness.
2. Hatred, or at the very least suspicion, by people in the Church (not the Church herself) as well as other non-Catholic Christians. On these very boards, there have been posters who have almost come right out and said that a person with SSA is beyond any hope of salvation, whether they are trying to live in accord with the Church’s teachings as stated in the CCC.
3. No apparent meaningful vocation. Both the priesthood and marriage are closed to people with SSA. In my case, the single life holds no excitement or prospects for joy…refer to #1.

So…SSA…cruel cosmic joke or cruel fate? Either way, I don’t see why God would allow a person to turn out to be hated and despised by His OWN people, even when said person tries to do the right thing, they are considered suspect, except as a joke.

As the previous poster said, your description sounds much like Jesus. Is there a possibility he had same-sex tendencies? If the Church teaches there is nothing wrong with SSA as long as there is no act, then it is entirely possible, no?

Also, every vocation is meaningful. There are many saints who lived very influential/meaningful lives who were not priests or married. St. Francis of Assisi comes to mind immediately.

 

[hatsoff]

Why is same-sex attraction any different than other sinful desires? If same-sex attraction is a cruel joke, is greed also so? What of opposite-sex lust, of which I would wager the majority of men are direly afflicted, and which is declared sinful by Jesus?

It seems to me that if God exists, then this cruel world—not just one particular aspect of it—is the joke.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

The New Testament has loads to say on this topic. Jesus was hated and despised by His own people. If people revile you and hate you for your desires, then you are unjustly persecuted. Read the Beatitudes, and learn of your *tremendous dignity *among the people of God.

Jesus was hated and despised by His own people because He was RIGHT and they were wrong. SSA is another category…SSA is an objectively disordered desire; therefore, it is a defect. Jesus was anything but defective. Further, He chose His life, people with SSA don’t, contrary to popular belief among Christians.

Just don’t use the persecution as an excuse to sin.

Wouldn’t go there. I have come to realize how empty and sad sex among people of the same sex is.

 

[Karmartia]

As a person afflicted with same-sex attractions (SSA), I can’t help to think sometimes that I am the hind-end of some sort of cosmic joke. Here’s why:

1. Apparent condemnation to a life of loneliness.
2. Hatred, or at the very least suspicion, by people in the Church (not the Church herself) as well as other non-Catholic Christians. On these very boards, there have been posters who have almost come right out and said that a person with SSA is beyond any hope of salvation, whether they are trying to live in accord with the Church’s teachings as stated in the CCC.
3. No apparent meaningful vocation. Both the priesthood and marriage are closed to people with SSA. In my case, the single life holds no excitement or prospects for joy…refer to #1.

So…SSA…cruel cosmic joke or cruel fate? Either way, I don’t see why God would allow a person to turn out to be hated and despised by His OWN people, even when said person tries to do the right thing, they are considered suspect, except as a joke.

Please don’t let the opinions of others shake your faith. Be grateful that it is God, and not other people, who will be your ultimate judge. What other people think about you is their problem. In this life we all have our crosses to bear, and SSA is a very heavy burden indeed. God must think very highly of you to trust you with such a rigor, because he has given you an opportunity to be a light to the world, to show that faith is greater than any difficulty, while at the same time exposing the bigotry and hypocrisy of those who have faith only in themselves. There must certainly be others who share your burden, our at least some few who are sympathetic, maybe even within your own parish. Seek them out, and put up a united front. Sadly you will never be able to change the minds of everyone, but by your courageous demonstration of faith, God will work through you to change their hearts. God bless you and keep the faith. Trust in God’s love. It’s no joke.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Jesus was hated and despised by His own people because He was RIGHT and they were wrong. SSA is another category…SSA is an objectively disordered desire; therefore, it is a defect. Jesus was anything but defective. Further, He chose His life, people with SSA don’t, contrary to popular belief among Christians.

Please to note: all desire is desire for the good. This is a fundamental truth about ethics and human behavior, a truth that Augustine identified and the Church has continually taught. When we say that a desire is disordered, then, we are not saying that its object is bad, but that its object is distorted. People with SSA (and, by the way, I am one of them too) desire the good of sexual experience/unity in a way that – if consummated – would distort that good.

Nevertheless, I would not call it a defect, but a wound. A defect is the failure of the craftsman; a wound is an infliction of a fellow man. God could keep us from experiencing SSA, but He did not directly cause our SSA. In my humble opinion, the desires associated with anorexia is “objectively disordered” too, but can’t you imagine a saint who had the privilege of resisting them?

(As a side note, the term “objectively disordered” is doing serious damage here, since the Church has *only * applied it to homosexuality.)

The main point remains: if you are persecuted for doing right, your reward is great in heaven.

 

[flyingfish]

As a person afflicted with same-sex attractions (SSA), I can’t help to think sometimes that I am the hind-end of some sort of cosmic joke. Here’s why:

1. Apparent condemnation to a life of loneliness.
2. Hatred, or at the very least suspicion, by people in the Church (not the Church herself) as well as other non-Catholic Christians. On these very boards, there have been posters who have almost come right out and said that a person with SSA is beyond any hope of salvation, whether they are trying to live in accord with the Church’s teachings as stated in the CCC.
3. No apparent meaningful vocation. Both the priesthood and marriage are closed to people with SSA. In my case, the single life holds no excitement or prospects for joy…refer to #1.

So…SSA…cruel cosmic joke or cruel fate? Either way, I don’t see why God would allow a person to turn out to be hated and despised by His OWN people, even when said person tries to do the right thing, they are considered suspect, except as a joke.

I don’t know how realistic this us, but what if you and another Catholic person with SSA were a couple that didn’t have sex? Then you would not be committing a sin, since it’s only the act of sex that’s considered a sin, and neither would be lonely?

 

[Bluegoat]

(As a side note, the term “objectively disordered” is doing serious damage here, since the Church has *only * applied it to homosexuality.)
.

This is something I find very problematic, and I must confess is one of the things that makes me a bit suspicious of the Catholic understanding of SSA.

For example, if a person with SSA can’t be a priest because it is objectively disordered, are there not other categories (people with anorexia ?) who also have disordered desires, who are excluded as a group? Perhaps those with OCD? THose inclined to nationalism?

 

[nineofnine]

I don’t know how realistic this us, but what if you and another Catholic person with SSA were a couple that didn’t have sex? Then you would not be committing a sin, since it’s only the act of sex that’s considered a sin, and neither would be lonely?

That would be putting yourself into a “proximate occasion for sin” and is in itself sinful, as it would be for an unmarried woman and man to do the same thing.

 

[piejesu]

Why is same-sex attraction any different than other sinful desires? If same-sex attraction is a cruel joke, is greed also so? What of opposite-sex lust, of which I would wager the majority of men are direly afflicted, and which is declared sinful by Jesus?

It seems to me that if God exists, then this cruel world—not just one particular aspect of it—is the joke.

I think you hit the nail on the head. The question of sin, of man’s utter failure to be holy in and of himself has been with us as long as we have been aware of our existence. Maybe Descarte should have said, “I sin, therefore I am man.” The apostle Paul struggled mightily with this same question in Romans chapter seven.

“Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?”

The basic issue of sin is far and above more fundamental and problematic than any particular category of sin.

So…who will deliver us?

 

[Fran65]

No more of cruel joke than being married to someone who becomes ill and/or disabled and therefore unable to participate in a sexual relationship; or being someone who never meets the right person to marry and therefore has to remain celibate.

No more of a cruel joke than being of a race or culture that is discriminated against or being disabled or mentally ill or having a facial disfigurment and being discriminated against.

You are not alone.

God bless

 

[Ismael]

As a person afflicted with same-sex attractions (SSA), I can’t help to think sometimes that I am the hind-end of some sort of cosmic joke. Here’s why:

1. Apparent condemnation to a life of loneliness.

Question:
Companionship is found ONLY in sexual relationships?

1. Hatred, or at the very least suspicion, by people in the Church (not the Church herself) as well as other non-Catholic Christians. On these very boards, there have been posters who have almost come right out and said that a person with SSA is beyond any hope of salvation, whether they are trying to live in accord with the Church’s teachings as stated in the CCC.

Homosexuals have found repression also in communist countries like the former USSR and Comunist Cuba from the part of the government. The same in Nazi Germany.

Yet the same applies for ‘colored people’ (like african-americans). Is the color of the shin a curse?

The suffering and hatred depend on the failure of people not in the nature of the homosexua (or the colored person) itself.

1. No apparent meaningful vocation. Both the priesthood and marriage are closed to people with SSA. In my case, the single life holds no excitement or prospects for joy…refer to #1.

There is the tertiary fransiscan order.

Vocations are not only in the clergy.

So…SSA…cruel cosmic joke or cruel fate? Either way, I don’t see why God would allow a person to turn out to be hated and despised by His OWN people, even when said person tries to do the right thing, they are considered suspect, except as a joke.

Christians who hate homosexuals are not behaving in a very Christian way. One might condemn certain actions if immoral, but should not hate the person who commits them.

God asks us to love one another and correct each other with love, not hatred.

So it’s not a joke… the problem is that some people let hate of minorities overwhelm reason and faith.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Why is same-sex attraction any different than other sinful desires? If same-sex attraction is a cruel joke, is greed also so? What of opposite-sex lust, of which I would wager the majority of men are direly afflicted, and which is declared sinful by Jesus?

It seems to me that if God exists, then this cruel world—not just one particular aspect of it—is the joke.

SSA is the one and only thing referred to by the church as an “inclination” to be “objectively disordered,” that’s why. Greed is an inordinate desire for a particular good. The same with opposite-sex lust.

SSA, on the other hand, does fall into a special category because it is the only desire that is, in and of itself, “an objective moral evil,” namely sexual relations between members of the same sex, yet my issue has nothing to do with sex, per se. It seems that most people, when discussing the issue of SSA, only focus on the sex (the symptom) and not on the underlying issues involved: sadness, loneliness, low-self esteem at best and outright self-hatred at worse, feelings of worthlessness and rejection, etc (the underlying problems). Granted, there are a lot of OSA people who have these issues, but not in the same way a person with SSA has them.

Honestly, it’s difficult to explain. Perhaps, I can explain by way of analogy. People who have watched Babylon 5 would get the story, but for those who don’t know, let me give the story quickly. Among the oldest races in the galaxy, two remained behind to sheperd the younger races: the Vorlons and the Shadows. The Vorlons were “lords of order” and the Shadows were “agents of chaos.” The Vorlons would act quietly to guide civilizations in a way that would bring about orderly societies. The Shadows would come out of hiding every thousand or so years and “serve evolution” by causing wars that kill off the weaker civilizations, leaving the strong to survive.

One of the tools used by the Vorlons was the adjustment of certain races (humans, Minbari, Centauri, etc.) to give them telepathic abilities to help fight the Shadows. This was revealed in the midst of the last season and one line really stuck out for me: “we would have been normal.”

This is my problem. At least the telepaths knew why they were created (as weapons to fight the Shadows), even though they ended up being left when the Vorlons and Shadows left. In the case of a person with SSA, there is no apparent reason, except to be the “vessels of wrath” St. Paul refers to in his Epistle to the Romans or as some sort of cruel joke played on those with SSA…but to what end?

 

[johngh]

“If the world hates you, remember that it has hated me first”

 

[pnewton]

We all want to rail at God sometime for the suffering in the world. All evils are rooted in the fallen nature of Man. So you suffer, like us all, from the sin of Adam. You suffer differently. Compared to many, you suffer more. Compared to others, less. In this you are also able to give greater glory to God for overcoming the world with its sin and pain. A great reward awaits. Those with this cross are as much of the body of Christ as any and should be supported fervently as they bear this cross with honor and dignity. Specifically, because of scandal and sin of recent decades, the life of the priesthood is closed for now. We see in this how interconnected the Body of Christ is. You will pay the penalty for the sin of others - just like Jesus.

 

[MariaTS]

As a person afflicted with same-sex attractions (SSA), I can’t help to think sometimes that I am the hind-end of some sort of cosmic joke.

You have no right to compare homosexuality to a valid medical condition.

 

[MariaTS]

No more of cruel joke than being married to someone who becomes ill and/or disabled and therefore unable to participate in a sexual relationship; or being someone who never meets the right person to marry and therefore has to remain celibate.

No more of a cruel joke than being of a race or culture that is discriminated against or being disabled or mentally ill or having a facial disfigurment and being discriminated against.

You are not alone.

God bless

you are so incredibly ignorant. Disability does not make someone unable to participate in a sexual relationship. I am severely disabled and have the ability to engage in such activity even though I have chosen a life of celibacy. Beyond that, the last statement was decent. Everyone is discriminated against.

 

[MariaTS]

That would be putting yourself into a “proximate occasion for sin” and is in itself sinful, as it would be for an unmarried woman and man to do the same thing.

Wrong. If the people have both chosen a life of celibacy. And celibacy from sex only applies to anal or vaginal intercourse. Oral intercourse or mutual masturbation would be appropriate. I guess I just have different ideas from many people.

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

Here’s a “must read” article from Fr. Vincent Serpa where he interviews a person who turned away from a 7 year homosexual relationship and back toward the church.

catholic.com/thisrock/2009/0903fea1.asp

Here’s one paragraph from the article:
"The key for me, in a broad sense, was changing my way of thinking. I focused on reconciling myself to what God wants for me, rather than trying to reconcile my notion of God with how I saw myself. That change of perspective is not easy at all. The sense of self is very powerful and extraordinarily difficult to overcome, especially once it has been given a chance to grow roots. That results in a sense of hopelessness and impossibility. This, I am sure, is what drives a lot of people with SSA away from the Church. Because of their focus on the self, they [falsely] see only two possibilities—either live a life of mortal sin or live a life of pure misery. A lot of people in my position feel like religion presents them with a choice between death by damnation or death by desolation. What I would say to someone in that position is: Start by coming to God and his Church and take it from there. The Church helps me see that the sense of hopelessness originates from a mis-orientation of thoughts. The truth is that doing things that please God does not result in a life of desolation. "​

Good luck to all in this struggle.

Mary - Queen of angels, we ask for your intercession for those who are struggling with unwanted SSA. Send your angels to protect them from evil and draw them toward your immaculate heart.

God Bless you,
John Marie Philomena