Same Sex Attraction and the Abuse Crisis

[Theo2]

Do you think that that is where the “touching” stopped?

In the report a lot of the touching stopped when the boy objected.

Or do you think it was all just “inappropriate touching”?

No it was not all just touching. Sometimes it went farther. Only in rare cases was sodomy involved as I recall.

 

[godisgood77]

Good point on the prison. In a parish you might note the women are all over the place. So priest have plenty access to women.

Not in seminary though… the formative years

 

[Mtdobbs]

No matter what the offence is called, theologically, they not only offend chastity but also gravely violate justice.

 

[Theo2]

In our seminary the classes are held on a college campus with male and female students.

 

[Theo2]

It matters when we want to understand the causes and preventative measures.

 

[BlueMaxx]

The cause is pedophilia and pederasty within the clergy…the degree if their perversion is relevant only to the fact they are seeking their own perverted pleasure with the same sex, that of a child…

The cause is a microcosm of evil was allowed to exist and in some cases flourish within the church.

The cause is the sin of sexual immorality…deviancy…to deviate means there has to be a norm from which to deviate.
The homosexual to some is already veering off this bell curve…then adding in the horrific actions of the pedophiles preying on their own sex and it only increases the opinion in some people that allowing SAS into the seminary is asking for trouble…

Human nature…post Fall…

 

[therese1998]

It’s pretty crazy actually when you think about it to compare prison settings in the accident occur within present settings to behaviors and people outside of the prison settings.

Granted that there are dynamics in prison that aren’t present in the seminary. I don’t think that disproves my point, however.

 

[therese1998]

I know some people only think and define rape as some forcible penetration…but is that really true?

Without getting into specific or personal information, I can assure you that rape is more than simply penetration. In fact, penetration tends to be the penultimate act. What goes before is just as much a violation of the sanctity of somone’s sexuality as the penetration. The trauma and PTSD related to touch deliberately designed to arouse and lead to penetration is similar, as well.

 

[BlueMaxx]

I agree…and again a child has no way of processing what has happened.

The long lasting confusion and guilt is inflicted on an undeveloped psyche…leading to a myriad of different kinds of pain and personal destruction.

I mentioned in another thread, a very good friend I had known since we were children committed suicide. As a child he was a victim of a local predatory priest at our parish. He lived a tortured life vacillating between heterosexuality and homosexuality. Eventually the pain and confusion was just too much.

(I often wonder how God will deal with those victims when they come to see Him? It haunts me so…)

This is just one example of how evil and deadly these acts are regardless if it broaches the definition of rape to someone.

 

[kainosktisis]

I’m so sorry about your friend. I’m a sexual abuse/incest survivor myself - not clerical. I’m sure mine was not the worst of types that had occurred. I’ve talked with others who’d endured worse than myself, but abuse is abuse. I had my own moments of dark thoughts in overcoming. It does have lasting effects. I have my own “scars” so to speak of it although honestly it doesn’t haunt my every thought as before. I have moved on. I survived. I have forgiven. I can’t say I’ve completely forgotten, but perhaps that is a good thing? So it doesn’t happen again…

I’ll pray for the repose of the soul of your friend.

 

[Thorolfr]

Good point on the prison. In a parish you might note the women are all over the place. So priest have plenty access to women.

So, do you think that in most parishes there are plenty of women who are looking to have an affair with the priest?

 

[Theo2]

No, I don’t mean that at all. What I am saying is that the priest are not seal away in an all male environment like some implied.

 

[ConcernedConvert]

I do completely. Prison life is completely different than normal societal living, even in the best of prisons. There is a dominance and assertive culture due to a fear for safety and many other pressures that inmates experience that lead to the homosexual culture within prisons. They are subject to minimal to no freedoms, and are forced to “survive” relying on whatever means necessary. These are entirely different than experiences from priests, seminarians and lay people deciding to sleep with other men. These men have access to other outlets and continue to engage in homosexual acts. Therefore…HOMOSEXUAL.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

These men have access to other outlets and continue to engage in homosexual acts. Therefore…HOMOSEXUAL.

Not necessarily. I think the ancient Greeks and pederasty has been mention on these fora recently. The appearance is homosexual but the truth is that it is predatory. and exploitive.

 

[ConcernedConvert]

It can be both homosexual and predatory and exploitive.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

And one is worse than the other. I wonder if we’re all on the same page which one is worse.

 

[ConcernedConvert]

I think we are, but that doesn’t mean we should avoid the others which factor deeply into the causation of the crimes.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Then does heterosexuality factor deeply when the priest molested teenage girls, or maked overtures toward a married woman, or the female teacher having sex with a boy in her car?

 

[ConcernedConvert]

Absolutely. I’m talking about specific problems of abuse within the church. The latest article I have read on the subject by Pyschology Today cites a study by the American Council of Catholic Bishops which reports that 4 out of the 5 abuse victims are male, with 85% of those being 14 or over. This is indicating quite clearly that it’s a homosexual abuse problem within the church.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

But is it it because the priest is attracted to the same gender or is it abuse of power. Pederasty has origins in ancient Greece and men in power seem to need to abuse their power. This attitude creeped into the hierarchy of the Church. It’s not unlike the way most people unconsciously see victims of rape, we can’t look them in the eye, we want them to abort the child conceived in rape because we subconsciously think it’s her shame. Some cultures kill rape victims, ours shuns them while pretending not to.

If the Church actually exclude all gay men from the priesthood this problem will continue because the Church will never be able to exclude predators and sociopaths. Clericalism has to die and along with it any “perks” of being in the heirarchy.