Same Sex Attraction and the Abuse Crisis

[therese1998]

Sexual predators do not belong in the priesthood.

Well, of course not! But they apparently ARE. So we’d better wise up and figure out what motivates them so we can stay one step ahead of them…don’t you think so?

 

[CilladeRoma]

Maybe now that is how it happens.
But in the 1930’s-1970’s, when much of the abuse in PA happened, women were not allowed in Seminary and girls we not allowed to be altar servers.

No one thought anything of allowing their sons to “hang out” with the priests. Fishing trips, camping trips, football games, swimming. It was normal and very common.
That is why people who know how things were then are saying that this is not specifically a “homosexual” problem. That is part of it, but opportunity plays a very big part.

 

[ConcernedConvert]

I disagree completely. I won’t deny that there are pressures and maybe fears ofLosing position, but these men have the ability to leave and to avoid that fear and the pressure or to do something about it. Men in prison do not have the same luxuries and often times literally fear for their lives or physical well-being which is why they engage in the acts that they do while incarcerated. It’s similar to gang violence in prisons. Many people who would normally not associate with gangs engage in gang relations in prison for safety reasons.
I’m also confused. in my post earlier I was discussing why homosexual priests are a major part of the problem and then discussing how homosexual acts in prison can’t be compared to homosexual acts committed by priests. I’m not talking about the victims, I’m talking about the priests.

 

[CilladeRoma]

I won’t deny that there are pressures and maybe fears ofLosing position, but these men have the ability to leave and to avoid that fear and the pressure or to do something about it.

Not if they truly want to be priests they can’t.

Why don’t people understand this?

The Bishop, and the Bishop alone can make or break a vocation.
If the Bishop is the one who is as preying on you, and you say no, there goes your vocation.
This is why the McCarrick thing is so terrible. Yes, they were men, but their lives and their vocation were in the hands of another. We would never think to blame a woman who was assaulted by a boss, why do we think it is OK to blame these men for what was done to them by superiors.

 

[ConcernedConvert]

You’re claiming that priests have no access to women which is completely outrageous. If the priest so desired and had such a strong urge that he (couldn’t control), he could go down to the local watering hole and pick up any type of woman there. He has nearly unlimited opportunity to do what he wants with his life, Yet continues to engage in homosexual abuse.

 

[glorybe]

Well, of course not! But they apparently ARE. So we’d better wise up and figure out what motivates them so we can stay one step ahead of them…don’t you think so?

This is not a game of cat and mouse. What motivates sexual predators is for professionals to figure out. Our responsibility is to make sure they aren’t inside the Church pretending to be faithful priests and bishops while using their power to sexually abuse children and intimidate seminarians to their beds. Our responsibility is to acknowledge what the problems are and not allow them to continue.

 

[ConcernedConvert]

Having a strong desire to be a priest does not mean that one is equipped to be a priest or is called to be a priest. If somebody tried to force me to engage in sexual acts in my work that were sinful, I would find another job or a complain to a different manager.

 

[CilladeRoma]

Now this is the case.

Back when much of this abuse was happening- girls were not allowed to serve at the altar.
Women were not allowed in Seminary.
Girls did not “hang out” with priests playing ball or camping.

Homosexuality is a part of the problem, a small one, but it is not the only one.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Not allowing homosexuals into the seminaries is not “victimizing” anyone, any more than not admitting women to the priesthood victimizes women. Certainly there are homosexuals who would not be predators. But the problem with it is that if one is a sexual pervert, how is anyone else capable of knowing the full nature and limits of that perversion?

 

[CilladeRoma]

But that is not how it works in the Church.

The Bishop puts people in place whom he trusts.

The Bishop is the final decision-maker as to who gets ordained.

If a man wants to be a priest, he best not do anything that makes his Bishop upset.

This is the biggest part of the whole scandal- men abusing their power to engage in sin.

 

[Mtdobbs]

I’m not saying that. I’m saying blaming homosexuals for the crisis is. I’m not disagreeing that seminaries would be a huge occasion of sin for some homosexuals either. I’m not even disputing the rules of the church regarding admittance to seminaries. I’m just talking about why I don’t think homosexuals should be blamed.

 

[ConcernedConvert]

I understand your point. What I’m telling you is that no one is forcing these men to do things that are wrong to be priests. If part of being a priest was engaging in sexual activities to appease the bishop in charge those men have every option of joining another career. I would not Suffer through sexual abuse to be in the profession that I am today, if that were the case I would have left and done something different. And you better believe I would’ve been claiming it loud and clear That what was going on there was wrong.

 

[CilladeRoma]

And that is you.

There is a case in my diocese right now that I happen to know all of the major players in.

A young seminarian was attacked by an older seminarian during their summer assignments.
The older seminarian attempted to engage the younger one in sexual relations and when it was refused, the older seminarian proceeded to hold down the young man and masturbate to ejaculation on him.

The young seminarian brought it to the attention of his rector. Older seminarian denied any wrongdoing, went to confession and was back in classes the next semester. That man went on to be ordained and is in active ministry in our Diocese.

The younger seminarian was told he “must have misunderstood” and that “forgiveness is important” and subsequently asked to leave Seminary.

Funny how now, all of this is coming to light, because the Seminary in question is St. John’s in Boston.

This poor young man is devastated, as being a priest is all he ever dreamed of. Now, he can barely walk into a Church without reliving the whole thing.

I sincerly hope that you are never in a position like this, as you never really know what you will do until your life and dreams are on the line.

 

[ConcernedConvert]

I hope that as well. What happened to that man is terrible, and I hope for justice for him. It is saddening and maddening that our seminarians are placed into positions where that behavior occurs.
However the man who committed the act,the bishop, committed a homosexual act. There is a large group of people who won’t recognize that the bishop in that instance is homosexual. Again my problem is with the abusers and the culture of homosexuality in our church leadership that is facilitating these types of abuses.

 

[CilladeRoma]

The Bishop did not commit a homosexual act.
The Bishop dismissed a homosexual act being being done to a young seminarian, whom the Bishop was obligated to protect, in order to prevent scandal to the Church.

Again, this has more to do with secrecy, scandal and appearances than it does with homosexuality andis a gross mis-use of power.

 

[therese1998]

have the ability to leave and to avoid that fear and the pressure or to do something about it

These men are predators. Why would they leave a job that PAYS them to in close contact with victims?

which is why they engage in the acts that they do while incarcerated.

You are right. There is not doubt some men SUBMIT to homosexual acts because they are afraid. I doubt that many men PERPETRATE homosexual acts because they are afraid.

At any rate, the original point is that I don’t find credible evidence that men commit acts of sexual violence BECAUSE they are homosexual.

You’re claiming that priests have no access to women which is completely outrageous

I never said that ??? Priests have access to nuns, female parishoners, both child and adult, and access to any woman of the secular world that so chooses to associate with a priest.

strong urge

Homosexual and homosexual CONSENSUAL acts, in and of themselves, DO NOT SATISFY THE URGE TO PREY on the vulnerable. Neither adult women, nor adult men, nor adults at the local watering hole, nor nuns, nor adult women in the parish will satisfy the urges of a sexual predator. What satisfies the urges of a sexual predator is fear, violence, domination, power over the sexuality/actions of another. This does NOT occur during consensual sex. This is NOT about purely sex. This is about the need to dominate. It’s not a theory…it’s a proven characteristic of sexual predators. The fact that the majority of sex abuse cases are about children and teenagers proves the aspect of sexual predation. The fact that there was homosexual sex involved may or may not prove homosexual orientation on the part of the abusers. To insist that homosexuality is the cause is to ignore the larger picture while focusing on a characteristic (homosexual orientation) that is minor to that of the larger characteristic (sexual characteristic).

This is not a game of cat and mouse

Says who? Choosing children and teens when truly adult and available alternatives exist is part of the DEFINITION of being a sexual predator.

Our responsibility is to make sure they aren’t inside the Church pretending to be faithful priests and bishops

Exactly. So stop allowing them to distract you to go after homosexuals instead of themselves.

 

[Jimbo]

We have a philosophical and moral problem here. I haven’t seen any real studies that say that gay men are attracted to boys any more than hetero men are attracted to girls.

The issue we have is that we have men sworn to celibacy having sex, using sex for favors, and predating on (mainly) young men/boys.

For those who have sex; clerical discipline is required. censure them, defrock them, whatever is appropriate.

For those that targeted minors? Investigate and jail the guilty.

Bishop Barron is calling for a lay group with forensic expertise be given access to Church documents so that we can find out not only the guilty, but the framework that allowed the abuse and the coverups. I’m 100% in favor of this. The Bishops cannot police themselves. The Vatican isn’t policing the Bishops. Let an outside source do this and tear off the bandage. We need to restore trust.

 

[Jimbo]

The fact that there was homosexual sex involved may or may not prove homosexual orientation on the part of the abusers. To insist that homosexuality is the cause is to ignore the larger picture while focusing on a characteristic (homosexual orientation) that is minor to that of the larger characteristic (sexual characteristic).

Well said.

 

[ConcernedConvert]

Hey sorry I misread your post. The older parishioner was the one who engaged in the homosexual act.

 

[CilladeRoma]

Older seminarian. One was a first year, one was 3 months prior to his diaconal ordination.