Same sex attraction

[JChapel]

I hope I’m not jumping into another tar pit here, but I see massive holes in your reasoning:

Presumably hetero parents adopt assuming they will get a hetero child.

Given that 90%+ of people are born heterosexual, that is a fair presumption.

How does the homosexual couple adopt assuming they will get a homosexual child?

They don’t. Homosexuals are just as aware as heterosexuals of the fact that 90+% of people are born heterosexual.

And would any heterosexual child be cheated of his birthright to be raised in a homosexual household, since he would not have heterosexual role models that would affirm his heterosexuality?

This is where I’m really not following you. The heterosexual child may not have the heterosexual role model directly in there parents, but are you saying that the child’s only exposure to adult heterosexual role models is in the home? What about teachers, clergy, adopted grandparents, adopted uncles, friends’ parents? …and who’s to say that any given pair of homosexuals would raise the child that differently from any given pair of heterosexuals? Finally, if your logic is indeed sound, how then would any homosexuals ever adjust, “cheated of [their] birthright” in heterosexual homes?

I’m in no way condoning homosexual marriage / civil unions, but if you are going to oppose them, at least put up a strong argument that can withstand some criticism.

 

[Betterave]

I know this. That is why I also responded in a sarcastic manner as to what he should have added to the list. Because its totally true. I couldn’t care less if a gay got married.
That is their business, not mine. And it will be legalized someday. I believe homosexuality is a sin but I don’t care if somebody is gay. That is their choice, not mine. And also too, is it really even a ‘choice’?

It would be easy to respond to this post with sarcasm, but the apparent argument is so bad that I’m not sure you even mean to make the claims that you seem to be making. Maybe you should drop the sarcasm and give a little sincerity a try. Then, once you actually understand the position you’re attacking, maybe *then *give the sarcasm another try.

 

[BlueShadow123]

It would be easy to respond to this post with sarcasm, but the apparent argument is so bad that I’m not sure you even mean to make the claims that you seem to be making. Maybe you should drop the sarcasm and give a little sincerity a try. Then, once you actually understand the position you’re attacking, maybe *then *give the sarcasm another try.

I dont think you understand what I was trying to get across. either that or you just don’t under stand HOW I was getting it across.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Also too, I believe you need to explain to your friend that he is comparing a sin to a non-sin. The two cannot be compared. There is nothing wrong with a heterosexual couple getting married and having sex even if the woman is unable to conceive. There is no sin in that.

But there is a sin with a homosexual couple having sex.

The two shouldn’t be compared because one is a sin and the other is not.

 

[cascherman]

So God can cause a virgin to bear a child, but he’s not powerful enough to cause a homosexual couple to do so? How about a lesbian couple?

Things that make you go hmmmm.

God gave us his own son through a virgin birth. But, the system he has in place for the rest of us is simple. No one is arguing that God does not have the power to give a homosexual couple a child because we know he can. But, he hasn’t.

 

[Seeker2010]

But, he hasn’t.

So what. Just because he hasn’t presumably doesn’t mean he can’t. If he can cause a legitimate virgin to give birth, surely he can overcome a latex barrier, or even the fact that any given individual is a homosexual male or a homosexual female. We are incapable of defying his will, even if we try, no?

 

[JChapel]

But, he hasn’t.

But he has. At least by technicality. It sure was quite the interesting story, coming from my hometown.

 

[BlueShadow123]

But he has. At least by technicality. It sure was quite the interesting story, coming from my hometown.

Somehow I knew it was going to be that thomas beatte person.
First off, its a transgender.

She still had her girl organs inside her so she was able to get pregnant.

But now she is a man.
And what he/she did to her body has nothing to do with god.

He gave her the parts to be able to reproduce and thats what she did. Even though she is now a man, he still had his girl parts inside her.

 

[JChapel]

Somehow I knew it was going to be that thomas beatte person.
First off, its a transgender.

She still had her girl organs inside her so she was able to get pregnant.

But now she is a man.
And what he/she did to her body has nothing to do with god.

He gave her the parts to be able to reproduce and thats what she did. Even though she is now a man, he still had his girl parts inside her.

True. I was just using the story to disprove this quote, although I’m beginning to regret that decision.

No one is arguing that God does not have the power to give a homosexual couple a child because we know he can. But, he hasn’t.

Admittedly, Thomas’ story unnecessarily gives people with SSA a bad rep. That said, you never know. Although it has yet to happen, maybe one day God will bless a gay or lesbian couple with a child. Anything is possible with God.

 

[Betterave]

True. I was just using the story to disprove this quote, although I’m beginning to regret that decision.

Admittedly, Thomas’ story unnecessarily gives people with SSA a bad rep. That said, you never know. Although it has yet to happen, maybe one day God will bless a gay or lesbian couple with a child. Anything is possible with God.

Yeah, who knows!

Anyway, who needs God to a lesbian couple their own child when there’s the courts who can mandate that a lesbian be awarded custody of someone else’s child?

lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/nov/10110909.html

 

[Betterave]

So what. Just because he hasn’t presumably doesn’t mean he can’t.

That’s exactly what the post said which you were replying to!

If he can cause a legitimate virgin to give birth, surely he can overcome a latex barrier, or even the fact that any given individual is a homosexual male or a homosexual female. We are incapable of defying his will, even if we try, no?

No, we are incapable of frustrating his will, but certainly not incapable of defying his will. (This is very basic stuff, Seeker. Masturbation and group sex may not make you go blind in your eyes, but maybe it does tend to blind your understanding - at least that’s the Catholic belief, whether you want to take it seriously or not.)

 

[Charlemagne_II]

james

*This is where I’m really not following you. The heterosexual child may not have the heterosexual role model directly in there parents, but are you saying that the child’s only exposure to adult heterosexual role models is in the home? What about teachers, clergy, adopted grandparents, adopted uncles, friends’ parents? …and who’s to say that any given pair of homosexuals would raise the child that differently from any given pair of heterosexuals? Finally, if your logic is indeed sound, how then would any homosexuals ever adjust, “cheated of [their] birthright” in heterosexual homes?

I’m in no way condoning homosexual marriage / civil unions, but if you are going to oppose them, at least put up a strong argument that can withstand some criticism. *

Plenty of holes in your reasoning. Parents are the primary role models. Why do you think two married men want to adopt a boy? Because they want him to be heterosexual?

Where’s your common sense?

 

[Rocinante]

Plenty of holes in your reasoning. Parents are the primary role models. Why do you think two married men want to adopt a boy? Because they want him to be heterosexual?

wait a second. are you saying that you had a child or adopted a child *because * you wanted him to be heterosexual and that it why you assume that homosexuals have or adopt a child *because *they want him to be homosexual?

even if this was one of your reasons (which i think would be quite perverse) i sure hope that there were lots and lots of reasons that came before that!

i can’t imagine looking at you baby and thinking about which gender you would like your child to have sex with in the distance future. are you saying that this is what you thought/think when looking at your children?

 

[JimG]

I was speaking with a friend about same sex attraction. We had a discussion about gay ‘marriage.’ I mentioned the Church’ teachings on marriage- and we spoke about the procreative and unitive elements of marriage. He said that although gay marriage isn’t procreative, neither is heterosexual marriage after a woman reaches menopause. He said that following the logical conclusion, we would come to the point where heterosexual couples would be barred from marriage after the women reaches menopause, and that any woman who reached menopause, would be unable to marry. He also said that the unitive element of marriage is also present in same sex relationships. Can someone help me out please?

Men and women are capable of marital relations, whether they or not they are fertile. Same sex couples are not capable of marital relations, therefore not capable of being married to each other. (By the same token, permanent antecedent impotence is an impediment to marriage, infertility is not.)

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Rocinante

*wait a second. are you saying that you had a child or adopted a child because you wanted him to be heterosexual and that it why you assume that homosexuals have or adopt a child because they want him to be homosexual? *

Use some common sense, please!!! You were born with it. Did you throw it away?

 

[JChapel]

james
Plenty of holes in your reasoning. Parents are the primary role models. Why do you think two married men want to adopt a boy? Because they want him to be heterosexual?

Where’s your common sense?

Maybe you just aren’t giving homosexuals enough credit.

I would presume that most who adopt would expect a heterosexual child, as that’s what most of us turn out to be. The homosexual parents may be the child’s primary role models, but who’s to say, again, that they would raise the child any differently than a heterosexual couple (the lack of a male/female role-model aside)? You surely weren’t raised watching your heterosexual parents having sex, were you? I just think you are reading into this too much. Given how many homosexuals are still badly treated these days, surely they would have learned from those experiences and want what’s best for their adopted child.

 

[Rocinante]

Rocinante

*wait a second. are you saying that you had a child or adopted a child because you wanted him to be heterosexual and that it why you assume that homosexuals have or adopt a child because they want him to be homosexual? *

Use some common sense, please!!! You were born with it. Did you throw it away?

but i just accused you of not making sense and asked you to clarify by answering some questions. can you save the eye rolling and just give me a straight answer? your idea that homosexuals must want to have or adopt children because they want them to be homosexual suggests that you think that heterosexuals have or adopt children because they want them to be heterosexual. is that your view?

i understand that you have a difficult time expressing yourself verbally, but could you at least try?

 

[InSearchofGrace]

this “god can work miracles” argument obviously applies just as well to homosexual couples as heterosexual couples.

Nothing is impossible with God, the Uncaused Cause. But He is also a God of order, a God of reason. It was Eve who conceived from Adam’s seed, the way God intended, as with subsequent generations of women still do, requiring impregnation during sexual union with men. God’s intervening miracles with Sarah (barren and too old to have a child, still requiring the participation of her husband Abraham) and the Blessed Virgin Mary (as brought up by Seeker) in her immaculate conception were necessary to bring forth the Word Incarnate, Jesus Christ, the Messiah. That is the context of the miracles in Scripture. In fact, the virgin birth is a beginning/focal point in Christian redemption history. This Scripture talk may be boring to unbelievers, but think about it, the birth of our Lord Jesus is no less the basis of the world’s dating system. It is the point of reference of all history, not insignificant at all!

St. Paul in his epistle to the Romans admonished against the vile affections of men and women, referring to homosexual acts. It is because union with the same sex is fruitless and is against the order and reason in all creation that God has gifted to man.

Peace.

. . . . . .

 

[BlueShadow123]

God does not need homosexual couples to reproduce. He already has it set up that heterosexual couples can reproduce.

Well, homosexuals can reproduce, but they’d have to do so in a heterosexual fashion.

Why would god allow homosexuals to reproduce anyways? Homosexuals reproducing might be an excuse people try to use to justify the behavior that god calls an abomination.

 

[Betterave]

Maybe you just aren’t giving homosexuals enough credit.

I would presume that most who adopt would expect a heterosexual child, as that’s what most of us turn out to be. The homosexual parents may be the child’s primary role models, but who’s to say, again, that they would raise the child any differently than a heterosexual couple (the lack of a male/female role-model aside)? You surely weren’t raised watching your heterosexual parents having sex, were you? I just think you are reading into this too much. Given how many homosexuals are still badly treated these days, surely they would have learned from those experiences and want what’s best for their adopted child.

If they really wanted what was best for the child, they wouldn’t want to impose a pair of homosexual parents on the child. Not all mothers and fathers are good parents, but does anyone honestly doubt that children are best off with a mother and a father? I think the sad truth is that children are often a kind of commodity, like having a nice car or house. I think people usually prefer to have their own biological children and when they can’t they often want to adopt because they think it will be personally fulfilling, not primarily because they want what is best for the child they would adopt. (The same is often true of people who have their own children, e.g., many teen mothers, or aging single women who get AI treatments, or ‘octo-mom’ type cases.)