same-sex attraction

[Digger71]

I would give you another way to regard porn.

Porn provides a cache of images that very few women (or men) can live up to. In time this cache could damage a persons ability to function with a wife (or boyfriend), leading to the couple missing out on the unifying aspects of making love, and possibly having children. In more extreme situatrions, it can actively lead to one partner demanding activities the other partner is uncomfortable with, or is repulsed by.

 

[setter]

Originally Posted by Digger71
I dont go for the talk that you only ‘admire’ these men and are confusing that with attraction. I think that is just trying to reframe the emotions and will increase confusion, not reduce it. However, if you put some credence to this…

The age of realising you are gay is falling thanks to increased awareness, greater visibility, and normalisation of same-sex relationships, but not so long ago people would be acting on their true sexual orientation in their mid 20’s, even today I sometimes meet people who have just come out, even though they are in their 40s.

No one mentioned legitimate except you, a qualifier you have had to stop the rest of the sentence becoming nonsense. Clearly, legitimate or not same-sex couple do make commitments and no amount of la-la-laing changes the facts on the ground.

In anycase, that is a distraction from Reclaimed’s post.

I find your posting to be highly disingenuous. Your gay agenda is all too transparent. You spent an entire post attempting to introduce the premise that gay is okay and SSA based lifestyles are normal, and like a latent condition, only waiting to be found out and then to come out, i.e., legitimate. I find your promotion of the gay agenda the only distraction to the OP’s query.

 

[setter]

I agree. In my opinion an occasional attraction to the desirable physical qualities of men (or women) isn’t an indication of sexual orientation. Human beings are wonderful creations of God. Admiring characteristics in people (in a healthy way) is nothing to be concerned about. A puritanical culture has conditioned us to think that admiring beauty in people of the same sex is horrible and must be repressed.

An eroticized attraction, “admiring characteristics/beauty”, in the same sex is unhealthy, unwholesome, and an aberration from God’s design. Whether such a SSA is a truly a psychological disorder is dependent on variables of persistence, duration beyond adolescence, …

However, I resent the idea that we should be “repulsed” by same-sex attraction. (I know I will get a barrage of negative responses to this.) Those of us who are gay are constantly told how “repulsive” and depraved we are. I think same-sex attraction is natural for some of us and is a gift from God. I battled for decades trying to repress my attraction to other men; only later in life did I accept who I was as a gay Christian man who was loved by God and had an important place in his church.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

You “resent” the reality that a well adjusted individual is repulsed by and sexual attraction that radically deviates from the norm? Let’s get it right here: For one, you are taking this way too personal; two, most folks are not repulsed by SSA in itself, but by the unhealthy and disgusting homosexual acts themselves. There is nothing “natural” in god’s design for SSA. A gift it is not, unless one has the spiritual maturity to accept the cross of SSA as a “gift” from God.

 

[Digger71]

I find your posting to be highly disingenuous. Your gay agenda is all too transparent. You spent an entire post attempting to introduce the premise that gay is okay and SSA based lifestyles are normal, and like a latent condition, only waiting to be found out and then to come out, i.e., legitimate. I find your promotion of the gay agenda the only distraction to the OP’s query.

You will read what you want to read.

Needless to say, I characterised this as low-level same-sex interest from the start (i.e 'magical thinking). And distinguished in from the typical with reference to sorcery and idolitry which seemed fair given the characteristics I percieved.

After that some readers simply let their imaginations take over.

 

[Digger71]

You “resent” the reality that a well adjusted individual is repulsed by and sexual attraction that radically deviates from the norm? Let’s get it right here: For one, you are taking this way too personal; two, most folks are not repulsed by SSA in itself, but by the unhealthy and disgusting homosexual acts themselves. There is nothing “natural” in god’s design for SSA. A gift it is not, unless one has the spiritual maturity to accept the cross of SSA as a “gift” from God.

The reality is that repulsion/disgust are at least partially socially determined, which leads to the two facts which are (1) those socialised not to be disgusted, are not disgusted, and (2) those who are socialised to be disgusted, are disgusted.

In both cases the individual will no doubt refer to themselves and like minded people as “well adjusted individual(s)”. Obviously this will be a matter of contention.

Helpful?

 

[Other_Eric]

I would suggest that the OP check with a reparative therapist to ensure that any passing attraction he may have to members of his own gender constitute nothing more than a transient condition. He owes as much to the girlfriend that he intends to marry and the children that he might beget by her.

 

[setter]

The reality is that repulsion/disgust are at least partially socially determined, which leads to the two facts which are (1) those socialised not to be disgusted, are not disgusted, and (2) those who are socialised to be disgusted, are disgusted.

In both cases the individual will no doubt refer to themselves and like minded people as “well adjusted individual(s)”. Obviously this will be a matter of contention.

Helpful?

I take the natural moral law as my reference point for what constitutes “well adjusted” for human beings made in the image and likeness of God our Creator. This is truth, this is reality, it is not a social construct or contrived subjective determination.

 

[Digger71]

I take the natural moral law as my reference point for what constitutes “well adjusted” for human beings made in the image and likeness of God our Creator. This is truth, this is reality, it is not a social construct or contrived subjective determination.

Well, obviously you do. But to an atheist, for example, that would be a sign of indoctrination, irrationality, and any number of other mental states that would indicate the opposite of ‘well adjusted’.

 

[Other_Eric]

Well, obviously you do. But to an atheist, for example, that would be a sign of indoctrination, irrationality, and any number of other mental states that would indicate the opposite of ‘well adjusted’.

Why should we give any form of credence to what an atheist might believe? Particularly when that belief contradicts the natural disgust of immorality humans are meant to have?

 

[Mijoy2]

I’d propose the question; why is same sex attraction considered or handled any differently then opposite sex attraction when it comes to battling temptation?

Our secular society, towards those who are married or some day hope to be, we speak sypathetically towards those individuals who express thier “same sex attraction”. Yet when a married individual, or one who hopes to be someday, speaks of his/her desires and physical attraction towards members of the opposite sex we have a “get over it dude” attitude.

I do not propose we express more sympathy toward the individual who has to go throughout thier married life battling thier oppostie sex tempations. On the contrary I propose we tell those individuals with “same sex attraction” to “get over it” in much the same manner that virually every healthy sexual and moral person has to deal with thier sexually impulses.

My sympathy is running very low.

(this is not directed specifically to the original poster, this is just my gut reaction to this poor world of sexually oppressed gays)

 

[litllulu]

If I may, Those attractions are not necessarily homosexual! People have attractions to the same sex all the time. We are misguided by the media and the culture; it tells us that all feelings and attractions are sexual. They are not! We are attracted to the unique attributes of different people, that is artistic, intellect, beauty, insightfulness, humility, lovingness, the warmth and the list goes on! Trust me, if you have a girlfriend you are not gay. If it is just a passing thought or admiration youre ok!

 

[setter]

Well, obviously you do. But to an atheist, for example, that would be a sign of indoctrination, irrationality, and any number of other mental states that would indicate the opposite of ‘well adjusted’.

But I have reality on my side.

 

[Mijoy2]

If I may, Those attractions are not necessarily homosexual! People have attractions to the same sex all the time. We are misguided by the media and the culture; it tells us that all feelings and attractions are sexual. They are not! We are attracted to the unique attributes of different people, that is artistic, intellect, beauty, insightfulness, humility, lovingness, the warmth and the list goes on! Trust me, if you have a girlfriend you are not gay. If it is just a passing thought or admiration youre ok!

I couldn’t agree more. I might add that it may be that some people who have these thoughts of admiration or affection may allow these thoughts to works as a catalyst towards sexual thoughts.

I feel this may be what we often see in society today. Because someone may see someone of the same sex as physically beautiful, society tells them if they have even the slightest temptation to take this thought to the next level because it is perfectly okay. Lust is a virtue of modern society. It is not to be surpresed but embraced.

 

[Digger71]

Why should we give any form of credence to what an atheist might believe? Particularly when that belief contradicts the natural disgust of immorality humans are meant to have?

Exactly! Why would an atheist give any credence to what a theist believes? Especially when they evoke so-called ‘natural disgust’, when disgust is so obviously dependent on social conditioning?

shrug, when it comes down to it, Homewardbound noted earlier:

“Also, with our generation its almost impossible to be revolted by homosexuality since its something thats been thrown in our faces since we were very young. The secular world has done its job in making us almost view it as “normal”. Therefore, being revolted by it is hard to do”

If it is natural to be disgusted then the process of normalisation would not be effective. It would be deep inside each person.

The fact that so many here fear normalisation and at least one admits maitaining disgust is difficult is implicit acceptance of the role of socialisation in forming disgust reactions.

That’s reality for you.

 

[setter]

Exactly! Why would an atheist give any credence to what a theist believes? Especially when they evoke so-called ‘natural disgust’, when disgust is so obviously dependent on social conditioning?

shrug, when it comes down to it, Homewardbound noted earlier:

“Also, with our generation its almost impossible to be revolted by homosexuality since its something thats been thrown in our faces since we were very young. The secular world has done its job in making us almost view it as “normal”. Therefore, being revolted by it is hard to do”

If it is natural to be disgusted then the process of normalisation would not be effective. It would be deep inside each person.

The fact that so many here fear normalisation and at least one admits maitaining disgust is difficult is implicit acceptance of the role of socialisation in forming disgust reactions.

That’s reality for you.

Myself and multitudes of others do not rationally or experientially suscribe to the notion that disgust for perversion is only a component of socialization. Man’s God given disgust for sin and perversion is a a product of natural moral law. However, the effects of natural moral law can be muted or masked by repeated exposure in absence of a well formed and actively discriminating conscience.

That is objective reality …btw – there can be only one objective reality.

 

[Digger71]

Myself and multitudes of others do not rationally or experientially suscribe to the notion that disgust for perversion is only a component of socialization.

Well, as I didn’t typify it that way, we agree. I quote myself, as you again seem to have misread me: “The reality is that repulsion/disgust are at least partially socially determined”

Man’s God given disgust for sin and perversion is a a product of natural moral law. .

Or explicable in evolutionary terms in regard to social animals living socially having to have acommon machanism of aquiring rules sets.

The universal feature of disgust is that everyone experiences, the variable is what is the object of that disgust. No amount of assertion can vanish that away.

However, the effects of natural moral law can be muted or masked by repeated exposure in absence of a well formed and actively discriminating conscience.

But maybe a rationalisation can…

That is objective reality …btw – there can be only one objective reality.

The objective reality in this case is that the disgust you describe is not universal, but varies by culture, and within culture. You may explain that away in terms of The fall, disordered feelings, the horror of normilisation, masking, but those are simply admissions that what some people think should be a universal objective reality is objectively, factually, meterially and emotionally not so.

This, ofcourse, simply leaves a philosophical framework and faith based assertion.

 

[teachccd]

If I may, Those attractions are not necessarily homosexual! People have attractions to the same sex all the time. We are misguided by the media and the culture; it tells us that all feelings and attractions are sexual. They are not! We are attracted to the unique attributes of different people, that is artistic, intellect, beauty, insightfulness, humility, lovingness, the warmth and the list goes on! Trust me, if you have a girlfriend you are not gay. If it is just a passing thought or admiration youre ok!

Our sexuality is very fluid and while our sexual orientation is described as being homosexual or heterosexual there can be some times when we move across those inherent boundaries. Even the most defined heterosexual may at times see something sexual within the same gender without identifying as a homosexual. Those who fall dead center on this usually identify themselves as bi-sexual. So if your feelings are geared primarily on a heterosexual orientation with some infrequent thoughts or admirations for the same gender there shouldn’t be a problem. We are all human and our thoughts are not difinitvely bound. We stray at times into “;unnacceptable” areas and, while sometimes ashamed to admit it, need to go a little easier on ourselves. This shame can cause many to withdraw the fact of their wanting to share this kind of information…God Bless

 

[setter]

Well, as I didn’t typify it that way, we agree. I quote myself, as you again seem to have misread me: “The reality is that repulsion/disgust are at least partially socially determined”

…with the underlying basis being natural law.

Or explicable in evolutionary terms in regard to social animals living socially having to have acommon machanism of aquiring rules sets.

…with the underlying basis being natural law.

The universal feature of disgust is that everyone experiences, the variable is what is the object of that disgust. No amount of assertion can vanish that away.

You have it backwards: The universal feature is the object (based on natural moral law); the variable is reaction of disgust (based on formation and acceptance of natural moral law).

But maybe a rationalisation can…

I agree. Take the Nazi war criminals who after a while thought nothing about killing another Jew – they essentially burned out their conscience, and reaction of disgust, of right and wrong and committing murder through the mechanism of rationalization.

The objective reality in this case is that the disgust you describe is not universal, but varies by culture, and within culture.

Influenced by culture and certainly socialization, but fundamentally it is a variable of individual conscience (with formative factors, acquired and chosen preference noted).

You may explain that away in terms of The fall, disordered feelings, the horror of normilisation, masking, but those are simply admissions that what some people think should be a universal objective reality is objectively, factually, meterially and emotionally not so.

This, ofcourse, simply leaves a philosophical framework and faith based assertion.

No, what this means is that the determinant of reality (and truth, the fullness of reality) is bigger than my personal life experience and subjective opinion.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Hello. I am a 20 year old heterosexual male. However, on occasion, I find myself attracted to physical, masculine aspects of attractive men. Also, I feel uncomfortable around flamingly gay men, maybe not attracted… but maybe it’s the false femininity about them that triggers the instinctual attractiveness to womanly attributes.

This makes me feel insecure. I have a girlfriend, am planning on marrying her, and certainly find immodest women a temptation. Where is the line between gay and straight, and how do you suggest dealing with these feelings?

When you say “attracted to physical, masculine aspects,” what do you mean? What does your attraction entail and how is it ordered?

It’s perfectly natural for men to admire the masculine traits of fellow men (this, IMO, explains the popularity of sports). Usually, it’s due to a reflection in what the man admires in himself or believes that he can attain. It becomes problematic when that admiration becomes eroticized (which tends to happen rather early in life). This is where the man sees what he feels is alien to him and cannot attain.

I would only worry if it’s an erotic attraction and not merely an admiration.

But that’s just my opinion.

 

[Other_Eric]

Exactly! Why would an atheist give any credence to what a theist believes? Especially when they evoke so-called ‘natural disgust’, when disgust is so obviously dependent on social conditioning?

shrug, when it comes down to it, Homewardbound noted earlier:

“Also, with our generation its almost impossible to be revolted by homosexuality since its something thats been thrown in our faces since we were very young. The secular world has done its job in making us almost view it as “normal”. Therefore, being revolted by it is hard to do”

If it is natural to be disgusted then the process of normalisation would not be effective. It would be deep inside each person.

The fact that so many here fear normalisation and at least one admits maitaining disgust is difficult is implicit acceptance of the role of socialisation in forming disgust reactions.

That’s reality for you.

It seems that you are stuck on the unfounded notion that humans will always act in accord with nature, that they can never contradict true nature either physically or mentally. Thus, you infer that because one can apply social conditioning to an individual in order that they not be disgusted by same-sex attractions or the acts that flow from them, that there is nothing “natural” about such disgust. Instead, it is something grafted onto the psyche by the media, one’s peers and one’s family. We can therefore “make” same-sex attractions normal or even good with the appropriate learning environment.

The problem with this is that it’s an essentially nihilist philosophy. Morality, as such, does not exist unless we make it up for ourselves. Therefore, if it suited our purpose, we could use the same social conditioning to break down one’s inherent respect for life and encourage a taste for violent behavior. There is no limit to the depravity we can encourage in society by virtue of social coercion.

Because such brainwashing is so effective, there appears to be no metaphysical safety net that would save man from becoming desensitized to any form of depravity it is possible for the mind to conceive. I therefore deny your relativistic notions of morality and insist that there very definitely is a standard for the use of one’s sexuality and that same-sex attractions fall outside of that standard.