E
Elric
Guest
I guess that I do in some ways. I dont really like the ideas of discrimination or persicution.
- Status
W
wifeandmomoftwo
Guest
and did either of these two things have to do with sexual orientation? No.
E
Elric
Guest
M
Mirdath
Guest
Note that they had just about as much to do with each other.
A
agangbern
Guest
MassEquality looking to widen scope of its mission
Email|Print| Text size – + By Peter Schworm
Globe Staff / November 5, 2007
“*After months of contentious debate about its future, MassEquality, a gay-marriage advocacy coalition, announced over the weekend it will expand its mission in hopes of including other gay causes and promoting legalization of same-sex marriage.
more stories like this…”
“The group, which was instrumental in the successful campaign to defeat a proposed constitutional ban on same-sex marriage, said it will continue its work within Massachusetts to reelect legislators who support gay marriage and also will address other issues important to the gay and lesbian community…”
“Of 17 board members, a solid majority supported the move, Solomon said. The group will also continue to support Massachusetts political candidates that support gay marriage rights and work to strengthen antidiscrimination laws, he said…”
"Lee Swislow, executive director of GLAD, said the partnership would combine GLAD’s legal expertise with MassEquality’s lobbying and organizational knowledge. “It’s a great thing and I think it will accelerate the effort” to legalize same-sex marriage throughout New England, she said. “This isn’t about organizations,” she added. “It’s about equality.”*.
boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/11/05/massequality_looking_to_widen_scope_of_its_mission/©
Copyright 2007 Globe NewspaperCompany.
Is it really about equality? Or simply looking for special treatment not equal to all men?
Email|Print| Text size – + By Peter Schworm
Globe Staff / November 5, 2007
“*After months of contentious debate about its future, MassEquality, a gay-marriage advocacy coalition, announced over the weekend it will expand its mission in hopes of including other gay causes and promoting legalization of same-sex marriage.
more stories like this…”
“The group, which was instrumental in the successful campaign to defeat a proposed constitutional ban on same-sex marriage, said it will continue its work within Massachusetts to reelect legislators who support gay marriage and also will address other issues important to the gay and lesbian community…”
“Of 17 board members, a solid majority supported the move, Solomon said. The group will also continue to support Massachusetts political candidates that support gay marriage rights and work to strengthen antidiscrimination laws, he said…”
"Lee Swislow, executive director of GLAD, said the partnership would combine GLAD’s legal expertise with MassEquality’s lobbying and organizational knowledge. “It’s a great thing and I think it will accelerate the effort” to legalize same-sex marriage throughout New England, she said. “This isn’t about organizations,” she added. “It’s about equality.”*.
boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/11/05/massequality_looking_to_widen_scope_of_its_mission/©
Copyright 2007 Globe NewspaperCompany.
Is it really about equality? Or simply looking for special treatment not equal to all men?
S
skeetor
Guest
The problem when dealing with liberals is always with dealing with how one feels. Do you feel like a woman, a man, something else? This in itself creates a problem because “everyone is different, and has different feelings” and thus creates a situation where no one can be put into a box, where everyone must be dealt with individually, because no one really likes to be put into boxes, because once you are put into a box things can be expected of you. The worst sin in the liberal world is to have expectations of someone that must be met. The myth seems to be… The tender flower will be forever stunted if forced to grow in a single direction, foriegn to its own completely ambiguous path. And the fear is always present that you will never be what you really can be if someone make you be what you are.
When a person is conceived they either are male or female. They might not like it, they might be confused as to how it makes them feel, they might be confused because they can’t tell what they are by looking at themselves but it doesn’t change reality.
The sad part is when we stopped building hospitals devoted to care for people with mental illnesses, places for the homeless, the veterans, the “transgendered”, and others who have lost the ability to deal with who they are instead turned to building a fantasy world thats easier to live in.
Prayer for those who are ill should be our main job in this case, helping these people to get treatment should be a close second. But do we help these people get better if we allow their behavior to be called normal, by confirming their fantasy in the mainstream? No, but neither is it right to deny them their basic rights because of their illness. Their ability to provide for themselves should not be infringed upon by employeers firing them, or not hiring, or not paying adequately, or not promoting adequately. This is not a “sex rights” issue, even if it seen as such by the employeer or the employee, it is a mental health issue and should be treated as such by the proper authorities. I am not sure of the facts but it wouldn’t suprise me if its not being handled correctly. We, as christians and the obvious majority, have a duty to see that these people are adequately protected as they should be protected instead of sweaping them under the rug in hopes that it will just go away.
When a person is conceived they either are male or female. They might not like it, they might be confused as to how it makes them feel, they might be confused because they can’t tell what they are by looking at themselves but it doesn’t change reality.
The sad part is when we stopped building hospitals devoted to care for people with mental illnesses, places for the homeless, the veterans, the “transgendered”, and others who have lost the ability to deal with who they are instead turned to building a fantasy world thats easier to live in.
Prayer for those who are ill should be our main job in this case, helping these people to get treatment should be a close second. But do we help these people get better if we allow their behavior to be called normal, by confirming their fantasy in the mainstream? No, but neither is it right to deny them their basic rights because of their illness. Their ability to provide for themselves should not be infringed upon by employeers firing them, or not hiring, or not paying adequately, or not promoting adequately. This is not a “sex rights” issue, even if it seen as such by the employeer or the employee, it is a mental health issue and should be treated as such by the proper authorities. I am not sure of the facts but it wouldn’t suprise me if its not being handled correctly. We, as christians and the obvious majority, have a duty to see that these people are adequately protected as they should be protected instead of sweaping them under the rug in hopes that it will just go away.
A
agangbern
Guest
I think no law prohibits one to be buried next to his loved one. There is simply no issue as to this. As regards tax breaks, there is no problem about that in my country…
P
pathia
Guest
Scroll back a few pages and read about my situation. There is no way to determine what sex God wanted me to be by any modern medical technique.
Just because you wish it to be so, and because it is in Genesis does not make it a reality. The bible was written far far before modern medicine and the understanding of genetics.
R
RyanL
Guest
Dear pathia,
Which of the following applies to your situation:
XX
XY
XXX
XXY
Hypospadias
Klinefelter
Adrenal Hyperplasia
Progestin Induced Virilization
I apologize if it’s an insensitive question – I have no experience with the subject, so please pardon me if it’s excessively blunt. I simply don’t know of any other way to ask.
God Bless,
RyanL
S
skeetor
Guest
Because you have underdeveloped sex organs you think you are neither male nor female? thats not true. A man doesn’t stop being a man just because his penis doesn’t work, if that were the case 60 year old men everwhere would start causing lot of problems
. I will pray for you and I hope you will seek out qualified medical help to assist you in accepting the truth of your situation.
P
pathia
Guest
None, I am a mosaic, I was initially lumped in with Klinefelter’s, but then they conducted more tests and found that in different parts of my body I have different arrangements of chromosomes. I have XX in some, XY in some, and XXY in some others. If it was just XY and XXY I would be a klinefelter’s mosaic, but the fact they found cells with XX confused them greatly. The way my chromosomes are listed is XY/XXY/XX. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a medical paper floating around in a year or two about it laugh
M
Mirdath
Guest
Ryan, I understand your curiosity, but…
P
pathia
Guest
It isn’t undeveloped, I simply don’t have it. I don’t have testicles, I don’t have a prostate. When does it stop being a male organ? It was surgically created mostly in the first place.Because you have underdeveloped sex organs you think you are neither male nor female? thats not true. A man doesn’t stop being a man just because his penis doesn’t work, if that were the case 60 year old men everwhere would start causing lot of problems
R
RyanL
Guest
Hmm. You are truly a unique creature of God, and He must love you very much to give you this cross. As St. Therese of Avila said to God, “Lord, if this is the way you treat your friends it’s no wonder you have so few!”
Another question, if I may. If you live as a woman, dress as a woman, have developed breasts, have no facial hair, I assume you’re private about your situation – why would anyone suspect, much less fire you on this basis?
Again, I apologize for any insensitivity - I understand this is a difficult topic, and I appreciate you sharing your experience with us in such an honest and forthright way.
God Bless,
RyanL
P
pathia
Guest
You are being quite sensitive, don’t worry, you’re doing fine.
See, what happens is, I of course was assigned male at birth. I had a male name. In any sort of background check, your old names are revealed. Once they see that my old name was a male name, then…well…they just put two and two together.
Also, I look female yes, but my voice is decidedly androgynous. I was treated with testosterone in my teenager years and it cracked my voice down to an alto maybe tenor range. It’s still within a somewhat female range, but it’s in the area that overlaps the sexes, that mostly gets me flagged as a lesbian though, which of course can have the same result of being fired.
Yes, I am very private with my story. I am anonymous here, that is the only reason I am willing to discuss this here.
R
RyanL
Guest
The counterpart to A Boy Named Sue, huh?
I imagine that would be…well…problematic, to say the least.What general line of work are you in? Social work? Business? Retail? I see “grad student” in your profile – most universities are rather liberal in their employment – would you consider work for them? What about the Church (which would probably require you to not be ‘lapsed’ anymore -
)? Would you consider working for the diocese?God Bless,
RyanL
P
pathia
Guest
I am decidedly made unwelcome at churches if they find the tiniest inkling about my past. The Church considers transsexuals (which is what the Church considers me) mentally ill, thus rather unsuited for employment there.The counterpart to A Boy Named Sue, huh?
What general line of work are you in? Social work? Business? Retail? I see “grad student” in your profile – most universities are rather liberal in their employment – would you consider work for them? What about the Church (which would probably require you to not be ‘lapsed’ anymore -
God Bless,
RyanL
I have business degrees, I am suited to work in management. However, my plan is to simply move to a state that actually provides protection for people such as me, and work for a company that states they don’t discriminate in such a manner.
R
RyanL
Guest
I would be rather disappointed in (ashamed of?) any Catholic pastor who did not seak first and foremost to care for your soul. Were these situations of which you speak situations where you were “found out”, or did you approach the pastor with a spiritual need? If not the latter, might I suggest you do so? I’ve been very impressed the few times I’ve gone to the bishop the ease with which I’ve been admitted.
I can only assume you have a spiritual longing deep within you on the basis of (1) your humanity (we all have it) and (2) your presence on this forum. What would it take for me to convince you to go ask the bishop for guidance?
God Bless,
RyanL
P
pathia
Guest
I don’t know, I’ve been…burnt by so many offers like this, I have a distrust of any religion at the moment. The reason I am here is because I was raised Catholic, and despite it having hurt me deeply mainly times it’s all that I know, so I don’t have anywhere else to go really for spirituality.
All the priests I have approached just sort of seem confused, and tell me to get in contact with Courage, because again I am a transsexual in the eyes of the church. Which really does nothing and only depresses or confuses those in Courage, because I have no sex drive, I have no need to help curb it, which is something they would all enjoy. Not seeking sexual pleasure is a breeze for me, because I am so mutilated and all the nerves have been cut off, or damaged from my surgery, I simply can’t experience it, never will, never can, so I don’t have anything to even really ponder/get addicted to etc.
Seemingly any intersexed person who rejects their initial assignment is considered a transsexual, though I have never seen official statements as such, just from the way I am treated seems to indicate this. I have tried multiple times, phrasing it different ways to get an answer from the apologists here, but no question is ever answered. I suppose it is too specific and too unknown to really answer.
I have never been mistreated by the clergy themselves in many years, they try to offer what understanding they have, which is understandably very little. They’ve never been cruel, they’ve just never really had any answers. I have incidents in my past that make it very hard to trust priests though. It’s a matter of confusion with them, rather than shunning and avoidance, which is what parishioners have done.
R
RyanL
Guest
"pathia:
Alternately, Bishop DiLorenzo (your bishop) is a former professor of moral theology and named a chaplain to His Holiness JP2. Based on the blogosphere’s treatment, he appears to be a holy and faithful man concerned about his flock. The instructions for contacting him can be found here. Were it me, I wouldn’t go any lower than the bishop – parish priests aren’t trained in these matters and are typically far too busy to devote a great amount of time to any particular individual. Additionally, bishops have folks like the National Catholic Bioethics Center on speed-dial, as well as access to the Roman Curia, which most parish priests don’t have.
God Bless,
RyanL
I can see how useless this would be for you.
My hunch is that this would be a rather immature way of handling the matter, which leads me to the belief that this isn’t the position of the Church. She’s usually much more reserved about such complex issues.
Well, there definitely haven’t been any encyclicals about the issue in recent memory, nor is there a particular Bible verse which springs to mind. Have you PM’d Fr. Vincent Serpa? He’s typically eager to help, and if you reference this thread I think he’d take some interest. In reading some of his replies to various questions in the Ask An Apologist forum he seems to be a busy man, so I’d be quite explicit in describing your physiology (chromosomal make-up, etc.).
Alternately, Bishop DiLorenzo (your bishop) is a former professor of moral theology and named a chaplain to His Holiness JP2. Based on the blogosphere’s treatment, he appears to be a holy and faithful man concerned about his flock. The instructions for contacting him can be found here. Were it me, I wouldn’t go any lower than the bishop – parish priests aren’t trained in these matters and are typically far too busy to devote a great amount of time to any particular individual. Additionally, bishops have folks like the National Catholic Bioethics Center on speed-dial, as well as access to the Roman Curia, which most parish priests don’t have.
I’m very sorry to hear this. I would wish my brothers and sisters would have treated you better.
You said you were raised Catholic - do you believe in Christ’s real presence in the Blessed Sacrament? If so, I would recommend some time in adoration. Go to Christ in the Blessed Sacrament and spend some time with Him. Get a Son tan – there’s grace there you can’t get anywhere else. If not, go to the Church anyway. Go to Christ. Go to His Blessed Mother. Fly to her and she will lead you to her Son. If you can do so for an hour, please do. If not, spend thirty minutes. Spend 10. Spend 5, if that’s all you can do. There is peace to be found, I assure you. You’re a child of God, and that means you’ve been created with a God-sized hole in your heart. Go to Him and He will make you whole.
God Bless,
RyanL
- Status