Same-sex marriage rowdies single out Mormons

[Jerusha]

The reasons for the gay backlash against LDS are:

   LDS extreme homophobia, as exemplified by electroshock therapy
  The highly organized LDS campaign for prop 8 amounts to a violation of separation of church and state.  Quoting T. Monson "Do everything you can to pass prop 8."  For those Mormons who walk lock-step with their "prophet", that can get quite extreme.  I don't blame thos gays. I know that other groups that oppose gay marriage are more tolerant of gays than are the LDS.  Domestic partnership is a reasonable compromise, and most recognize that it is.  Marriage is not such a reasonable compromise.

 

[BartBurk]

The reasons for the gay backlash against LDS are:

   LDS extreme homophobia, as exemplified by electroshock therapy
  The highly organized LDS campaign for prop 8 amounts to a violation of separation of church and state.  Quoting T. Monson "Do everything you can to pass prop 8."  For those Mormons who walk lock-step with their "prophet", that can get quite extreme.  I don't blame thos gays. I know that other groups that oppose gay marriage are more tolerant of gays than are the LDS.  Domestic partnership is a reasonable compromise, and most recognize that it is.  Marriage is not such a reasonable compromise.

Give me a break. This is exactly the kind of thought that leads us vulnerable to gay marriage and allows the continuation of legalized abortion in this country. If Catholics everywhere would vote like Catholics both of those dangers would be gone.

 

[rmcmullan]

Strategic move on the part of the gay activists. Mormons aren’t the most popular group, so they are trying to associate their beliefs with anti-mormons.

Of course, the mormons aren’t to “blame” for this. The mormons are a sufficiently small minority in CA that they couldn’t have changed the results on their own.

Guess they feel that anti-mormonism is a better bait to garner support than attacking say the Catholic Church or the African American community who both opposed it as well and are large enough sectors to actually change the result.

You’re right, it’s a divisive strategy. And it’s also true that Blacks and Latinos carried the day–some inner city neighborhoods voted as high as 80% in favor, much higher than traditional Republican areas.

Still, the Mormons were singled out as an easy target and I believe in an effort to quiet voices determined to stand up for their beliefs. Easier to vilify the lot than to argue the merits of their case. Like it or not, they’ve come to stand for the Christian community in this fight even though many Christian denominations were of the same mind and gave generous support, both from their hearts and their means.

The reason why this story struck me is because it reminds me too much of the Bible stories of the prophets “strirring up the people” to repentance and getting stoned. I know, a little dramatic, but I wonder where this will lead to?

 

[SimonArizona]

Everyone wants the right to do whatever they please. Abraham Lincoln perhaps said it best “Freedom doesn’t mean we have the right to live as we wish, but as we ought.”

 

[why_me]

whyme, you speak out both sides of your mouth. You support Mormons in their attack of the Catholic faith and Church, and then tell Catholics that we are attacking Mormonism when we speak out ourselves.

I have never supported Mormons who may attack the catholic faith. In fact just the opposite. I have always defended the catholic faith if a mormon would come out with something against the catholic faith.

And yes, some catholics on this forum do attack the mormon faith. And they do not engage in discussion.

 

[why_me]

.

I am not sorry to tell you that Mormonism is a false religion based on the belief in a false prophet.

And this is my point. This does not encourage dialogue. Can we say the same about Calvinists and those who followed Knox? And what about those who followed Luther?

 

[why_me]

.

Both churches in Utah are cooperative in matters of shared moral values and humanitarian efforts. But they are not the same church. There are real, theological, differences.

No problem there. But both churches would have no cooeration if the catholic members would use your language to describe the mormon faith. And that is my point. Discussion and dialogue is one thing but verbal attacks are quite another thing.

 

[ralphinal]

I am thankful that the Mormons helped so greatly. The proposition would have failed.

I am still puzzled how marriage is a right. I do not see in the in Bill of Rights. I do not know of it in the Declaration of Independence or in the Constitution.

 

[RebeccaJ]

And this is my point. This does not encourage dialogue. Can we say the same about Calvinists and those who followed Knox? And what about those who followed Luther?

Calvin, Luther and Knox never claimed to be prophets, so no, couldn’t say the same thing about them.

 

[nebula]

Like bdawg and others have pointed out, Mormons were very involved and visible in the prop 8 movement so teh whole thing does make sense. It’s not just convenience it’s based on teh facts. I don’t feel bad either- tit for tat in my opinion.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Hooray for the Mormons! That was an sweet victory, and without them I doubt if it would have happened. When are these homosexuals ever going to stop? They already have civil unions, to want to be called married is a travesty!

 

[BDawg]

Like bdawg and others have pointed out, Mormons were very involved and visible in the prop 8 movement so teh whole thing does make sense. It’s not just convenience it’s based on teh facts. I don’t feel bad either- tit for tat in my opinion.

I think we should try to be more understanding of gays. Even if we don’t agree that they are hard-wired “that way” by genetics, we can still recognize that:

1. it might be genetically influenced, just like alcoholism, drug abuse, cheerfulness, and any number of other behaviors,
2. these are people that have been severely mistreated all their lives, and so it is perhaps understandable that they would interpret Prop 8 as just another gay bashing in disguise.

I would have supported Prop 8 if I still lived in CA, but I can still be understanding of the reaction.

 

[nebula]

I think we should try to be more understanding of gays. Even if we don’t agree that they are hard-wired “that way” by genetics, we can still recognize that:

1. it might be genetically influenced, just like alcoholism, drug abuse, cheerfulness, and any number of other behaviors,
2. these are people that have been severely mistreated all their lives, and so it is perhaps understandable that they would interpret Prop 8 as just another gay bashing in disguise.

I would have supported Prop 8 if I still lived in CA, but I can still be understanding of the reaction.

I agree bdawg.

 

[rmcmullan]

I thought you all might be interested in this first hand account of a temple worker from the LA Temple. It’s different than the AP account and is making the rounds as an e-mail message many LDS people are exchanging:

As additional information for those who missed the news, I was at the temple assisting in the security efforts and it was quite an experience. Our temple is safe and no damage was done on the grounds.

It was a site I never expected to see. At one point we had let in about 20 police vehicles through the gates because they were afraid their vehicles would be damaged as civilian cars were being vandalized. I removed the Utah plates from my truck just so I could drive through the mess and park blocks away.

Two full squads of LAPD in riot gear set up their base inside the temple grounds while SWAT vehicles and hundreds of officers followed the crowds run up Santa Monica and Wilshire Boulevards. I’ve heard that the crowd was estimated to be over 2,500. The officers inside the temple grounds made a line on the front lawn by the fence. At one point, with 7 news and police helicopters overhead, the crowd began to climb the fence and it looked like there was going to be a lot of trouble. We had it seemed a good forth of a Polynesian ward there so it could have gotten very interesting very fast. While I was there, I was not aware of anyone actually breaching the fence, but we were asked to move far across the parking lot as they were anticipating the need to shoot tear gas canisters. I never thought I would see the day when police officers would sit perched on the spire of our temple as lookouts.

All of this happened at about 7:30pm. It should be remembered that most likely many of the law enforcement were not in favor of our stance on Proposition 8, but nevertheless, the men and women were there doing their duty and protecting our property. For that we are grateful. And yes, there was an incident with some of our members who had gone to remove the protest signs from the front fence. One of the protesters did initiate physical contact with one of our sisters so the details are uncertain as to whether the response was fully justified. The lesson to be learned is that it’s important to anticipate and avoid such confrontational situations. Remember the world is watching our reaction and the media is everywhere. In the end, when we keep our cool, the video footage speaks the truth regarding which side is really intollerant and appears hateful when we simply do not respond or do so in a loving and controlled manner.

As far as the temple being open or not, I do not have any official word. The decision to close it today came from Church headquarters in the afternoon and I imagine they will have to evaluate the situation day to day. Since protesting has ocurred the past 2 days, I imagine in will happen again tomorrow and as long as people can keep it up without losing their day jobs.

 

[Strummer]

Of course, the mormons aren’t to “blame” for this. The mormons are a sufficiently small minority in CA that they couldn’t have changed the results on their own.

I think mormons gave more money per capita than any other group though. I do not know if that made up the largest portion overall but, given their size, the LDS-ers were all over this. We’ve had stories of middle-class mormon families taking tens of thousands of dollars out of their savings to donate to the campaign.

 

[onmywayagain]

Good point. Can you imagine if they had directed their protests against the African American community? They’d have the whole country against them.

Good point. According to some news sources, over 70% of black voted in favor of barring same sex marriages. With a black president elect, there is no way these protesters would even think of singling out a black church.