Same sex marriage - staight to hell?

[CrimsonThorn]

Perhaps, it would be more useful to spend your time praying for the mercy of God for all sinners and a bit less focusing on others sins. No one is equipped to judge a soul except God, himself.

I can’t imagine the life burden of one who is gay. All I know is that I am called to love.
Besides, I have enough to do to try to keep my own soul from the fires of hell…

While Im sure that burden is tough to bear, it isnt anymore burdensome than a heterosexual that is called to the single life and to live celibately.

 

[speakttruth]

No. While engaging in homosexual activity is grave matter, your priest was very VERY wrong to have made such claim in regards to Hell.

I think we have to be careful of judging the priest. It was second hand knowledge, she might have just listen to the word hell and not the full context after that, he really doesn’t know first hand how he said it. Priests are supposed to save souls. Many are not teaching the truth about what mortal sin actually is. We need more good priests.

We do have the right to condemn actions. What do we do to a Murderer? There are consequences. After we take the log out of our eye, we are allowed to take the speck out of the eye of the other person. No one reads the whole verse. Fuzzy and sweet is not how Jesus spoke, he was pretty clear about sin and hell and we are supposed to proclaim the gospel. He didn’t say we had to be perfect,but we are suppose to try and can never be because of original sin, to proclaim the gospel. We are all sinners.

If your actually trying to stay in sanctifying grace, and living a holy life, we are expected to tell our brothers and sisters the truth of the gospel and sometimes we have to speak it, not just live it. Judging right from wrong is not judging to hell. There is a distinction. That is why we are losing our religious freedoms, from the activists who like to use that to detract us from telling the truth and to shut us up. Love is about truth, not sweet and fuzzy. If we love them we tell them what they need to know to go to heaven. Feelings are clouded sometimes and we can’t go by them.

In the gospel of judging it is about hypocrisy of preaching to tell some one else not to do something and then doing yourself. That is what the Pharisees did. We are not Protestants we are Catholics and are expected to read the whole passage, not to pick out one line like the Protestants do. That is when we get into trouble. Ask the priest on this forum, he can explain it better than me.
God Bless

 

[Debora123]

I think we have to be careful of judging the priest. It was second hand knowledge, she might have just listen to the word hell and not the full context after that, he really doesn’t know first hand how he said it. Priests are supposed to save souls. Many are not teaching the truth about what mortal sin actually is. We need more good priests.

We do have the right to condemn actions. What do we do to a Murderer? There are consequences. After we take the log out of our eye, we are allowed to take the speck out of the eye of the other person. No one reads the whole verse. Fuzzy and sweet is not how Jesus spoke, he was pretty clear about sin and hell and we are supposed to proclaim the gospel. He didn’t say we had to be perfect,but we are suppose to try and can never be because of original sin, to proclaim the gospel. We are all sinners.

If your actually trying to stay in sanctifying grace, and living a holy life, we are expected to tell our brothers and sisters the truth of the gospel and sometimes we have to speak it, not just live it. Judging right from wrong is not judging to hell. There is a distinction. That is why we are losing our religious freedoms, from the activists who like to use that to detract us from telling the truth and to shut us up. Love is about truth, not sweet and fuzzy. If we love them we tell them what they need to know to go to heaven. Feelings are clouded sometimes and we can’t go by them.

In the gospel of judging it is about hypocrisy of preaching to tell some one else not to do something and then doing yourself. That is what the Pharisees did. We are not Protestants we are Catholics and are expected to read the whole passage, not to pick out one line like the Protestants do. That is when we get into trouble. Ask the priest on this forum, he can explain it better than me.
God Bless

Judging actions is one thing. Proclaiming that a person is going to Hell is something entirely different, and is something that only God can say.

Perhaps it is true that the priest said no such thing, of course. And I hope he didn’t. But for the sake of the discussion of this thread, I take the OP’s words truthfully.

 

[YoungCatholic86]

Judging actions is one thing. Proclaiming that a person is going to Hell is something entirely different, and is something that only God can say.

Perhaps it is true that the priest said no such thing, of course. And I hope he didn’t. But for the sake of the discussion of this thread, I take the OP’s words truthfully.

While it is true we are not to condemn other people specifically to Hell, we are called to tell people certain actions will if the person remains unrepentant. You are Catholic and therefore are to hold to the teachings on mortal sin which, if unrepentant at the point of death, will send someone to Hell.

 

[YoungCatholic86]

Paragraph 1861: Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

 

[Debora123]

While it is true we are not to condemn other people specifically to Hell,

Yes, that’s all I said.

…we are called to tell people certain actions will if the person remains unrepentant. You are Catholic and therefore are to hold to the teachings on mortal sin which, if unrepentant at the point of death, will send someone to Hell.

Right, but according to the OP, that’s not what the priest said.

Of course we hold the belief that unrepentant mortal sins = Hell. I know that. I’m not stupid.

However, we cannot say “this person” is going to Hell because we don’t know if the grave matter they committed actually has the culpability of mortal sin or not. It depends on their knowledge, intent, etc etc…

Things that only God knows. We can’t even say for certain that Hitler went to Hell.

 

[YoungCatholic86]

Yes, that’s all I said.

Right, but according to the OP, that’s not what the priest said.

Of course we hold the belief that unrepentant mortal sins = Hell. I know that. I’m not stupid.

However, we cannot say “this person” is going to Hell because we don’t know if the grave matter they committed actually has the culpability of mortal sin or not. It depends on their knowledge, intent, etc etc…

Things that only God knows. We can’t even say for certain that Hitler went to Hell.

Very true. If the priest stated it in that manner than he was wrong to do so. It seems like, however, some of the members of this forum find more fault in the priest than the men

 

[YoungCatholic86]

Yes, that’s all I said.

Right, but according to the OP, that’s not what the priest said.

Of course we hold the belief that unrepentant mortal sins = Hell. I know that. I’m not stupid.

However, we cannot say “this person” is going to Hell because we don’t know if the grave matter they committed actually has the culpability of mortal sin or not. It depends on their knowledge, intent, etc etc…

Things that only God knows. We can’t even say for certain that Hitler went to Hell.

Very true. If the priest stated it in that manner than he was wrong to do so. It seems like, however, some of the members of this forum find more fault in the priest than the men

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Yes, that’s all I said.

Right, but according to the OP, that’s not what the priest said.

Of course we hold the belief that unrepentant mortal sins = Hell. I know that. I’m not stupid.

However, we cannot say “this person” is going to Hell because we don’t know if the grave matter they committed actually has the culpability of mortal sin or not. It depends on their knowledge, intent, etc etc…

Things that only God knows. We can’t even say for certain that Hitler went to Hell.

Quite right Debora.

I think posters here need to be quite clear that we are only going by Chinese whispers re what the priest said.

I find it disturbing that some readily believe a priest would say this.
Protestant evangelists may talk like this, I have rarely heard a priest say this.

If one did, it was no doubt qualified just as you say… if one engages in disordered sexual acts (that includes masturbation by the way) freely and knowingly then they commit mortal sin.

 

[speakttruth]

Very true. If the priest stated it in that manner than he was wrong to do so. It seems like, however, some of the members of this forum find more fault in the priest than the men

. Thank you. Why are we mincing words. God has made it very clear that he made them male and female. God says we have no excuse of what he has created because he made it apparent to everyone. To say we don’t know that it is wrong to be so called married to the same sex, we would be have to be on another planet. Why criticize the priest regardless of how he said it, we should let someone know that we are going to hell if we are in a state of mortal sin. I say if it saves your soul or a loved one, then say Thank you. If fear gets you to heaven, you won’t be unhappy. That is one way to get some peoples attention. Now we get just PC from some of the priests.
Yesterday the church was packed with people who showed up probably only 1 or 2 times a year and they almost ran out of Jesus. He told everyone about showing up only on this day, and that the ashes were a symbol and that you don’t go to heaven by receiving it, but by going to confession, penance, living a holy life, coming to church and yet how many came up? I go to church everyday and I have never seen so many people. It wasn’t a holy day of obligation. I have never seen that many on those days either. Do you think they were in mortal sin? What a good priest to make it clear.

You don’t think they have an informed conscience? So do people who are SSM.

Why do the activists want to change the rules of the church? They have been informed and know what the Pope and the church says on SSM. They don’t want to listen, they don’t want to believe it. Let’s not be naive, that they do not know. The proof is on our bodies. What do you think they will say to God? I didn’t know.

So to the question on this post, will people living in a SSM bring them straight to hell?
Yes. According to the scriptures WE will bring wrath upon ourselves. WE send ourselves to hell, not God. WE chose to separate ourselves from God. Free will. God never leaves us, and always loves us, but do we love God or ourselves?
Are we here to help save souls or make someone feel good? Just adding my 10 cents
God bless

 

[Debora123]

Quite right Debora.

I think posters here need to be quite clear that we are only going by Chinese whispers re what the priest said.

I find it disturbing that some readily believe a priest would say this.
Protestant evangelists may talk like this, I have rarely heard a priest say this.

If one did, it was no doubt qualified just as you say… if one engages in disordered sexual acts (that includes masturbation by the way) freely and knowingly then they commit mortal sin.

Agreed completely. I hope the priest did not say this.

 

[cargau]

While Im sure that burden is tough to bear, it isnt anymore burdensome than a heterosexual that is called to the single life and to live celibately.

I disagree. Aside from the need to avoid sexual contact, being gay still carries a social stigma that being a single heterosexual does not. In spite of a real push to normalize the behavior, it still remains something of a mark of shame.

I suppose that this is the reason that so many stay in the closet. And, well they should. I am not particularly fond of basing one’s identity on their sexuality, alone. And frankly, I don’t need to have it discussed everywhere from congress to the third grade in a daily manner.

 

[CrimsonThorn]

I disagree. Aside from the need to avoid sexual contact, being gay still carries a social stigma that being a single heterosexual does not. In spite of a real push to normalize the behavior, it still remains something of a mark of shame.

If one is not active in living the gay lifestyle and being sexually active, why should anyone know about a person and their inclination toward the same sex? They just live a celibate life like the single person and no one needs to know of their temptations and their sexual drive.

Also, you are incorrect about being a single, celibate heterosexual not carrying any negative stigmas. Many single, celibate heterosexuals are seen as being weird or as being losers. Not to mention some single, celibate heterosexuals find it hard to go out and eat dinner in a nice restaurant alone or to go to the movies alone.

cargau:

I suppose that this is the reason that so many stay in the closet. And, well they should. I am not particularly fond of basing one’s identity on their sexuality, alone. And frankly, I don’t need to have it discussed everywhere from congress to the third grade in a daily manner.

Exactly. Heterosexuals who experience issues with particular temptations should never feel the need to come out and state that they’re struggling with such-and-such issue or temptation, so neither should a same sex inclined person feel the need to make known their temptations to everyone either.

Again, being a celibate homosexual is no easier or harder than it is for a heterosexual to live celibately.

 

[speakttruth]

If one is not active in living the gay lifestyle and being sexually active, why should anyone know about a person and their inclination toward the same sex? They just live a celibate life like the single person and no one needs to know of their temptations and their sexual drive.

Also, you are incorrect about being a single, celibate heterosexual not carrying any negative stigmas. Many single, celibate heterosexuals are seen as being weird or as being losers. Not to mention some single, celibate heterosexuals find it hard to go out and eat dinner in a nice restaurant alone or to go to the movies alone.

Exactly. Heterosexuals who experience issues with particular temptations should never feel the need to come out and state that they’re struggling with such-and-such issue or temptation, so neither should a same sex inclined person feel the need to make known their temptations to everyone either.

Again, being a celibate homosexual is no easier or harder than it is for a heterosexual to live celibately.

I agree no one has to discuss their sexual desire, but being celibate, chaste, for a homosexual is an extremely difficult cross, it doesn’t compare to heterosexuality. They have a stronger desire because of this problem. If they are SSA, they will have less hopes of having an acceptable relationship someday if they don’t want to act out. They can’t date. If your heterosexual you have that hope and you will be accepted if you get married. Many who have this cross also have many other issues as well, so we must be more concerned of our Chaste brothers and sisters who struggle with the desire of the SSA and have more compassion to help them in their Catholic faith. The world is telling them it’s ok, it’s normal to have SSA, even Catholics that are not practicing their faith tell them this, so they enable them. Not that we don’t help everyone, but it is a huge cross.
GB.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I agree no one has to discuss their sexual desire, but being celibate, chaste, for a homosexual is an extremely difficult cross, it doesn’t compare to heterosexuality. They have a stronger desire because of this problem. If they are SSA, they will have less hopes of having an acceptable relationship someday if they don’t want to act out. They can’t date. If your heterosexual you have that hope and you will be accepted if you get married. Many who have this cross also have many other issues as well, so we must be more concerned of our Chaste brothers and sisters who struggle with the desire of the SSA and have more compassion to help them in their Catholic faith. The world is telling them it’s ok, it’s normal to have SSA, even Catholics that are not practicing their faith tell them this, so they enable them. Not that we don’t help everyone, but it is a huge cross.
GB.

I agree. There are also additional issues such as a fear of hurting the people they care about, if they become close friends with the opposite sex conservative Catholics might find it scandalous thinking it scandal (though it is not) and if they become close friends with the same sex they might get excessively emotional attached potentially creating a hazardous situation for them. I can not elaborate at this moment as I can not currently muster the energy for a lengthy discourse on the metaphysical ramifications of hylomorphism after the loss of original justification resulting from the Fall and the effects of concupiscence.

 

[TheKingdomOfGod]

A friend of mine has been dating this guy who is not Catholic, for 5 years. And, he has a brother who is married to a man. She went to talk to a priest (who I know of) who I set up for her to talk to , and she told me that he told her that those who are married to the same sex are going straight to hell. I really love and respect this priet a lot, but I am curious as to what you all think of this. Although I don’t believe that those who are married to the same sex will go to Heaven, I don’t know for sure and I don’t think any one knows except God. So, was the priest right in saying this? (By the way, this priest is amazing, and our community respects him soo much, and he helps so many people).

As others have said it’s up to God, but seeing as I’m finding a hard time seeing a sin that your friend’s brother has committed, it’s unlikely, in my opinion, he would go to hell.

 

[speakttruth]

As others have said it’s up to God, but seeing as I’m finding a hard time seeing a sin that your friend’s brother has committed, it’s unlikely, in my opinion, he would go to hell.

Well having a SS relationship is sinful. Then saying your married is worse. Read your Catechism. This is why we are in trouble. Nobody knows what sin is anymore, not even supposen Catholics. And God did make heaven and hell, so what do you think we have to do to get to either one? Play it safe and follow God’s rules. Don’t put yourself near any occasion of sin, and I mean especially mortal sin, because Jesus warns us that we will perish.
God help us!

 

[speakttruth]

I agree. There are also additional issues such as a fear of hurting the people they care about, if they become close friends with the opposite sex conservative Catholics might find it scandalous thinking it scandal (though it is not) and if they become close friends with the same sex they might get excessively emotional attached potentially creating a hazardous situation for them. I can not elaborate at this moment as I can not currently muster the energy for a lengthy discourse on the metaphysical ramifications of hylomorphism after the loss of original justification resulting from the Fall and the effects of concupiscence.

I feel for anyone in that situation who is truly trying to live a chaste life. God will give more graces for those souls, because of this cross, he truly loves them even more.
God Bless

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Kingdom

**As others have said it’s up to God, but seeing as I’m finding a hard time seeing a sin that your friend’s brother has committed, it’s unlikely, in my opinion, he would go to hell. **

You, an Anglican, are saying that sodomy is not a sin?