Same-Sex Marriage

[Ortho]

Pls dnt say that the homosexual marriage haqve huge support from us catholics. I only meant that SOME not the MAJORITY. Pls dnt put such comments. It really offend, specially if there is no evidence. Pls dnt comment such thing. I was only trying to be gentler to the gay byut dat doesn’t mean i really support them because i dnt. i was only feeling bad for their ryts although i knw gay ,arriage is a harmful to one’s soul.

                             peace

Most Catholics reject the Church teaching on birth control. That is tied to the Church teaching on being open to life. Many Catholics tie that to their opposition to homosexuality.

Rejecting birth control treaching rejects the idea that sex must be open to life. That removes support from the argument that homosexuality should be opposed because it is not open to life.

 

[Ortho]

goofyjim:

Granted, but did you ever look at the medical explanations as to why STDs are faster spread through homosexual intercourse than through heterosexual intercourse? It was detailed in a book I read several years ago but I can’t remember the title.

As far as the HIV figures being higher among heterosexuals than homosexuals, could be for a number of reasons:

1. How you view the statistics. The rate of new infections may not be as great because out of the population claiming to be exclusively homosexual has already risen beyond that of heterosexauls in the past and now it is just catch up time.
2. Maybe fewer people are claiming to be homosexual thereby making it seem as though they acquired it heterosexually.

Until we are honest about our behaviors we may all need to be tested, except for the virgins of course.

It may also mean that gays are taking many more precautions than in the past.

 

[goofyjim]

catlicgirl88:

Dat Guy In The Name Of Ortho Is Getting On My Nerves Pls Stop Putting Generalization, Not For Me But For The Catholics And Christians. Dnt Generalize Dem By Saying That They Su[port Gay Marriage. I Mean HuGe Supports. Ur Getting On My Nerves! If U Wnt Stop It Den U Gss U Should Jst Leave. Ur Hurting Some Of Us :d

WAIT I TAKE DAT BAACK. DAT WAS TOO HARSH I GSS AND MAYBE INAPPORPRIATE. MY APOLOGIES

Peace

Actually I agree with you. The majority of Catholics, Christians, Jews, Muslims, and other major religions do not support homosexuality but that has already been stated before.
[/quote]

 

[kaymart]

Ortho:

Well, then it might be more accurate to say Catholics who are true to their faith are trying to push their beliefs on others.

A strong and well developed system has no trouble with hard questions.

Nobody can be made a fool of if they have a strong and well developed position, and are willing to defend it. Fools make themselves.

I do not push my Beliefs on others who are not Catholic. I have a sister-in-law who I truly repect, who is a Lutheran. Her Religious beliefs are as strong as mine but I do not force them on her or does she to me. (She also does not ask silly questions over and over again.) On the other hand, I WILL push my Beliefs on a person who goes around calling him/herself Catholic and openingly rejects The Church’s Teachings.

 

[Ortho]

catlicgirl88:

Dat Guy In The Name Of Ortho Is Getting On My Nerves Pls Stop Putting Generalization, Not For Me But For The Catholics And Christians. Dnt Generalize Dem By Saying That They Su[port Gay Marriage. I Mean HuGe Supports. Ur Getting On My Nerves! If U Wnt Stop It Den U Gss U Should Jst Leave. Ur Hurting Some Of Us :d

WAIT I TAKE DAT BAACK. DAT WAS TOO HARSH I GSS AND MAYBE INAPPORPRIATE. MY APOLOGIES

                                                       Peace

Feel free to say whatever you choose about me. I can handle harshness. It’s a sign of a Superstar.
[/quote]

 

[Libero]

As far as the HIV figures being higher among heterosexuals than homosexuals, could be for a number of reasons:

1. How you view the statistics. The rate of new infections may not be as great because out of the population claiming to be exclusively homosexual has already risen beyond that of heterosexauls in the past and now it is just catch up time.

1. Maybe fewer people are claiming to be homosexual thereby making it seem as though they acquired it heterosexually.

Until we are honest about our behaviors we may all need to be tested, except for the virgins of course.

I know, it is really annoying how statistics have this entire cloud of uncertainty around them. Having said that, I would be quite confident in the statement earlier about the current rate of STD’s - but I would also add, that that statement applies only to England, I am unsure about other countries, but may do some research.

Besides, health care costs dont have too much influence here, ahhh the NHS

 

[goofyjim]

Ortho:

It may also mean that gays are taking many more precautions than in the past.

I’m not sure what precautions can be taken if one already has HIV. From the book I read, which I still can’t remember the title but I think it was written by Jeffrey Satinover, it is lying that there is any such thing as safe sex and that, I believe is where society has gone wrong. The only safe sex is abstinence until a hetereosexual marriage and then chastity withing that marriage.

 

[catlicgirl88]

Ortho:

Most Catholics reject the Church teaching on birth control. That is tied to the Church teaching on being open to life. Many Catholics tie that to their opposition to homosexuality.

Rejecting birth control treaching rejects the idea that sex must be open to life. That removes support from the argument that homosexuality should be opposed because it is not open to life.

ENLIGHTEN ME I DNT GET IT.

OMG I GET IT NOW. WAT DID U JST SAID? WEN WE DIDN’T WANT BIRTH CONTROL DAT MEANS THAT CATHOLICS BELIEEV THAT SEX IS HOLY AND SHOULDN’T BE DNE WITH BIRTH CONTROL BECAUSE BODY SHOULDN’T BE USE FOR PLEASURED SEX! OMG NO OFFENSE BUT UR COMMENT IS SO OUT OF DIS WORLD. I’M TRYING TO BE PATIENT.

U JST LITERALLY MEANT THAT OPEN MINDED! DEY DNT LIKE BIRTH CONTROL BECAUSE IT STOPS LIFE FROM FORMING! WHEREAS IN GAY DEY CNT FORM ANYTHING THUS THE SEX IS USED AS SOMETHING FOR PLEASURABLE INSTEAD OF USING IT TO PROCREATE AND TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER! PLS DNT GENERALIZE AS CATHOLICS! U DNT EVEN GET A OUR BELIEF. BY TEH WAY ARE U GAY?

 

[goofyjim]

Ortho:

Feel free to say whatever you choose about me. I can handle harshness. It’s a sign of a Superstar.

Maybe, but it’s no sign of humility.:nope:

 

[Consecrated]

BillP:

Let me see if I can clarify it for you. I am Catholic. I believe in the teachings of the Catholic Church. I belive the Catholic Church encompasses the truth about morality and the path to salvation.

And I’m with you there!

BillP:

However, I am also mindful that throughout history many people who professed and practiced certain religions have from time to time been denied the right to practice their religion or forced to practice (at least outwardly) some other religion.

I rejoice that I live in a society governed by a Constitution that explicitly prevents such cocercion and guarantees me the ability to freely practice Catholicism. Part and parcel of that is realizing and accepting that I live in a society where the majority of people do not share my beliefs, and that I have no right to force my beliefs on them.

So yes I believe it is “okay” for the current consensus to make a law that doesn’t accept Catholic morality.

So because you want to avoid the evil of limiting peoples’ free-will in a way that even God chooses not to ( :yup: ), you believe it is ok for the State to actually encourage, protect, and sanction immoral actions( :nope: )? Allowing them in the spirit of prudence and respect for the God-given gift of free-will, in order to prevent civil disorder and unjust descrimination is one thing. Supporting laws that protect and reward people for committing immoral actions, is quite another.

BillP:

I do not differentiate between “right” and “ability” in the sense that you do. According to the CCC it is in fact our choice to accept or reject God. We hold possession of our soul or our “eternal fortunes” for lack of a better term. We can choose to accept or reject God. That is our right (or our ability or entitlement if you prefer). As for God given endowment, if God did not give us the ability to reject him then who did?

I see what you’re saying, and thank you for challenging me in this to clarify and correct my understanding. I think I agree with the paragraph above. The only think I would say is that, though we MUST be free to choose between perceived goods (some which are from God and some which are not), we do not have the right to have our sinful choices rewarded, protected, or encouraged by state law. Examples of what I’m trying to say:
1)Though a woman has the freedom to choose to destroy her unborn baby, she does not have the right to have that action protected by state law.
2)Though a person has the freedom to choose any action that prevents the seed from reaching it’s naturally intended location during intercourse, that person does not have the right to have said actions endorsed, protected, or encouraged by state law.

(In case anyone’s interested, these articles from the Catholic Encyclopedia helped me clarify my understanding of human rights and free will: newadvent.org/cathen/13055c.htm and newadvent.org/cathen/06259a.htm )

(continued)

 

[kaymart]

Ortho:

Feel free to say whatever you choose about me. I can handle harshness. It’s a sign of a Superstar.

:whacky:

 

[Consecrated]

BillP:

I could not possibly disagree more. Especially because we Catholics wouldn’t be the ones choosing which sins to which society’s access should be limited.

Well then I guess we must desagree. In the ideal society, the Catholic Church can and should be the one to “choose”, because it alone has the God-given gift of discerning Truth here on earth. If we truely believe the Church has the full deposit of the Faith, why wouldn’t we dream of the day when all people recognize her as the true Church of Christ and the final earthly authority on faith and morals? Why wouldn’t we want a society that encourages and protects virtue instead of sin?

BillP:

First do not confuse tolerance of person choice with encouragement. Every time I walk by a Protestant eating a Big Mac on a Lentan Friday without slapping it out of his hand I’m exercising tolerance, but not encouragement. Everytime I walk through the aisles of my local Kroger without secretly perforating the boxes of condoms I exercising tolerance but not encoouraging people to use them. Everytime my baptist co-worker walks through the aisle of Publix without “accidentally” knocking a few bottles of wine crashing on the floor she’s exercisng tolerance not encouraging drunkeness.

Your examples fail to prove your point. The first one because, while following Church law is good, fasting and abstinence are not matters of morality. The second one because (as you said) refraining from destroying a contraceptive product that does not belong to you is different from supporting a civil law that protects the use of them. The third one for the same reason…refraining from the destruction of property that does no belong to you is different from supporting a law that rewards public drunkenness.

BillP:

I reject this asssertion as well. Do you know anyone who syas to himself “If only I could be in a SSM I’d become a homosexual”? Of course not. Do you think SSM would create “new” homosexuals out of people who are now heterosexual? of course not.

Well, I do, sort of. If our society as a whole accepts homosexuality as just another expression of sex (and a law legalizing SSM would say that our society does), then yes I do think that it’s very possible that people who would have never practiced homosexual acts otherwise, would be more likely to entertain the idea.

BillP:

I can live with your terminology. In the final analysis it is their choice.

Yep. But we don’t have the societal duty to encourage that choice if it’s immoral.

 

[Libero]

U JST LITERALLY MEANT THAT OPEN MINDED! DEY DNT LIKE BIRTH CONTROL BECAUSE IT STOPS LIFE FROM FORMING! WHEREAS IN GAY DEY CNT FORM ANYTHING THUS THE SEX IS USED AS SOMETHING FOR PLEASURABLE INSTEAD OF USING IT TO PROCREATE AND TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER! PLS DNT GENERALIZE AS CATHOLICS! U DNT EVEN GET A OUR BELIEF. BY TEH WAY ARE U GAY?

I really don’t see the generalisation that you keep metioning, Ortho doesn’t seem to be making that many bad statements.

Also, the question of someones sexual orientation is not relevant, it does not effect the matter, and is inappropriate.

 

[goofyjim]

[/quote]

I should have used that one but I’m not thinking fast enough on a weekend.

BTW, I used to work at Kmart many years ago so I like your stage name.

 

[catlicgirl88]

goofyjim:

Maybe, but it’s no sign of humility.:nope:

DAT ORTHO IS DRIVING A LOT OF PEOPLE NUTS HERE. I THINK I’M LEAVING INSTEAD OF ME SINNING BECAUSE I’M GETTING MAD AT HIS STUBBORNESS. IMAGINE SAYING THAT A HUGE MAJORITY OF CATHOLISC, CHRISTIANS, JEWS SUPPORT GAY MARRIAGE WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE MAN. MAN I’M LEAVING. I WAS THINKING THAT OLD PEOPLE MAY KNOW BETTER FROM A 16 YEAR OLD
OPPS DATS NOT VERY NICE WAS IT. BUT I’M REALY FRUSTERATED. DNT WANNA ADD DAT TO CONFESSION!
(PEACE ORTHO)

 

[catlicgirl88]

Libero:

I really don’t see the generalisation that you keep metioning, Ortho doesn’t seem to be making that many bad statements.

Also, the question of someones sexual orientation is not relevant, it does not effect the matter, and is inappropriate.

PLS READ IT I MEAN THE OTEH RESPONSES ALTHOUGH I FEEL SRRY NOW MAYBE I AM WRNG TOO. BUT READ.

Originally Posted by Ortho
Most Catholics reject the Church teaching on birth control. That is tied to the Church teaching on being open to life. Many Catholics tie that to their opposition to homosexuality.

Rejecting birth control treaching rejects the idea that sex must be open to life. That removes support from the argument that homosexuality should be opposed because it is not open to life.

THERE IS ALSO ANOTHER ONE HE SAID THAT THE MAJORITY OF CATHOLICS ADN CHRISTIANS AND JEWS SUPPORT HOMESUAL MARRIAGES! WER IS D EVIDENCE.
BUT MAYBE I MAYBE WRONG BUT HE’S GETTING ON MY NERVES. MUST BE MOOD SWINGS.

 

[catlicgirl88]

Libero:

I really don’t see the generalisation that you keep metioning, Ortho doesn’t seem to be making that many bad statements.

Also, the question of someones sexual orientation is not relevant, it does not effect the matter, and is inappropriate.

oH MY I JST REALIZE WAT U MEANT. UR RYT IT IS IRRELEVANT TO ASK THE SEXUAL ORIENTATION BUT WAT I WAS THINKING AWS DAT MAYBE HE’S GAY SO HE SEEMED TO HAVE SOME GENERALIZATION TO PUT IN THAT LOOKS PRO GAY MARRIAGE OR SOMETHING. I THINK I’LL SAY SRRY NOW TO HIM.

 

[catlicgirl88]

Ortho:

Feel free to say whatever you choose about me. I can handle harshness. It’s a sign of a Superstar.

SRRY IF I ASK IF UR GAY. DAT WAS WRONG BUT I WAS THINKING THAT MAYBE DATS WHY U SEEMED PRO GAY BUT I DNT KNW IF U REALLY ARE. MAN DIS IS A BAD DAY. I MIGHT BE HAVING MY MOOD SWINGS. SRRY ORTHO.

 

[luvmykids]

Libero:

I frequently hear the notion that many Catholics would rather have a smaller more devout church. But then I always think afterwards that these Catholics do not realise quite how small such a church would be. Should the church try to remove all Catholics who do not agree with all teachings and doctrines of the church then they would be loosing bishops, cardinals and priests left right and centre, dicoses’ would be being closed down, people would not be able to get to churches, the church would loose a significant amount of money. It could be said that the “heretics” are both a blessing and a curse, for letting the church survive in such a vibrant manner, however they do also denounce church teaching.

I’m not so sure about this theory that the heretics make the Church what it is. I have looked at diocese around the country, and if you look close enough, you will find that the more devout, orthodox dioceses and seminaries are the ones that are thriving. It’s not the “heretics” that are giving the Church the ability to survive, it is the orthodoxy that is. In a seminary near us, there was a nun who was teaching heresy and most of the students dropped out of the class.

 

[catlicgirl88]

luvmykids:

I’m not so sure about this theory that the heretics make the Church what it is. I have looked at diocese around the country, and if you look close enough, you will find that the more devout, orthodox dioceses and seminaries are the ones that are thriving. It’s not the “heretics” that are giving the Church the ability to survive, it is the orthodoxy that is. In a seminary near us, there was a nun who was teaching heresy and most of the students dropped out of the class.

GOOD FOR U MAN. BESIDES WAT IS HE TALKING ABOUT THAT HERETICS ARE THE ONE DAT ARE MAKING THE CHURCH THRIVE? I MEAN A LOT OF PPL ARE BECOMING PROTESTANT BECAUSE SOME THINK DAT WE ARE WOSHIPPING SAINT WEN THE CATHOLICS CHURCH SAYS DAT WE SHOULD RESPECT NOT WORSHIP THEM! dAT GUY IS CONFUSING