Same-Sex Marriage

  • Thread starter Thread starter T1Catholic
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I have not read all the posts in this thread, OK? But, the non-religious argument agains same sex marriage is based on natural law.

Now, strictly speaking, natural law is also God’s law. But, natural law says that the natural relation is for a man to be married to a woman. Biologically, that is the only relation that makes biological sense. Same-sex unions have no biological or evolutionary adaptive advantage. In simplest language, they would not help the species survive, quite the opposite.

Whatever same sex unions are, they are not marriages.
 
40.png
goofyjim:
I’m not sure what precautions can be taken if one already has HIV. From the book I read, which I still can’t remember the title but I think it was written by Jeffrey Satinover, it is lying that there is any such thing as safe sex and that, I believe is where society has gone wrong. The only safe sex is abstinence until a hetereosexual marriage and then chastity withing that marriage.
Click to expand...
If one has HIV he can take the obvious precaution of not giving it to another.

I’m not familiar with Satinover, but the CDC says condoms are an effective prophylactic against HIV.
 
The bottom line is - if you believe you are Catholic - then you must believe that Jesus did not establish a democracy - its His way or no way - He commissioned Peter and the apostles to carry forth His Church - He gave Peter the ability to, (and I paraphrase) “…bind and loose on earth shall be bound and loosed in Heaven…” From that point forward - you have to believe that our Popes - elected in and thru the Holy Spirit - teach and mold us in Jesus’ love and mercy. It was Jesus’ teachings that brought Him so many followers, not just some of His teachings - all of His teachings - and to deny even just one of His teachings is to deny Jesus Himself - therefore, today - in our modern world, for those of us who say to be Catholic - we must be Catholic in every single way - if we are not, and we refuse to accept certain teachings, then we forfeit our position as Catholic and are indeed protestant - as we then protest a teaching. If you protest a teaching, congratulations, you can hang a shingle out in front of your home and call your religion the church of you and me - and join the thousands of others before you who have done just that - and the Catholic church will always be the Catholic church - as it started in the beginning - is now and will be forever.
 
ENLIGHTEN ME I DNT GET IT. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

OMG I GET IT NOW. WAT DID U JST SAID? WEN WE DIDN’T WANT BIRTH CONTROL DAT MEANS THAT CATHOLICS BELIEEV THAT SEX IS HOLY AND SHOULDN’T BE DNE WITH BIRTH CONTROL BECAUSE BODY SHOULDN’T BE USE FOR PLEASURED SEX! :eek: OMG NO OFFENSE BUT UR COMMENT IS SO OUT OF DIS WORLD. I’M TRYING TO BE PATIENT.

U JST LITERALLY MEANT THAT OPEN MINDED! DEY DNT LIKE BIRTH CONTROL BECAUSE IT STOPS LIFE FROM FORMING! WHEREAS IN GAY DEY CNT FORM ANYTHING THUS THE SEX IS USED AS SOMETHING FOR PLEASURABLE INSTEAD OF USING IT TO PROCREATE AND TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER! PLS DNT GENERALIZE AS CATHOLICS! U DNT EVEN GET A OUR BELIEF. BY TEH WAY ARE U GAY?
[/quote]

I said nothing about pleasure. You introduced that.

While I am happy to correspond with you, I have so much trouble reading your shorthand, I am afraid I will discontinue.
 
40.png
Ortho:
If one has HIV he can take the obvious precaution of not giving it to another.

I’m not familiar with Satinover, but the CDC says condoms are an effective prophylactic against HIV.
Click to expand...
That is where I contend the lie is. The condom failure rate, even under ideal conditions, whatever they may be, is 30%. I know I wouldn’t hop on a plane if it had a 30% chance of crashing. As I said true chastity (abstinence until heterosexaul marriage and then fidelity) is the only 100% way to stay free of HIV.
 
40.png
luvmykids:
I’m not so sure about this theory that the heretics make the Church what it is. I have looked at diocese around the country, and if you look close enough, you will find that the more devout, orthodox dioceses and seminaries are the ones that are thriving. It’s not the “heretics” that are giving the Church the ability to survive, it is the orthodoxy that is. In a seminary near us, there was a nun who was teaching heresy and most of the students dropped out of the class.
Click to expand...
The success of the orthodox seminaries is interesting and not to be denied. However, how many orthodox seminaries are there? How many other seminaries? Is it possible the orthodox seminaries are taking the relatively small number of men with an orthodox attitude? It would only take a small percent of seminarians, grouped in a single seminary, to make it a success.

Put another way, a small number of botique seminaries can be successful. If there are many botiques, they will all fail.
 
40.png
BayCityRickL:
I have not read all the posts in this thread, OK? But, the non-religious argument agains same sex marriage is based on natural law.

Now, strictly speaking, natural law is also God’s law. But, natural law says that the natural relation is for a man to be married to a woman. Biologically, that is the only relation that makes biological sense. Same-sex unions have no biological or evolutionary adaptive advantage. In simplest language, they would not help the species survive, quite the opposite.

Whatever same sex unions are, they are not marriages.
Click to expand...
Many things dn’t help the species survive. Ice cream? Golf? So what?

Natural law arguments always depend on who defines nature.
 
40.png
luvmykids:
The bottom line is - if you believe you are Catholic - then you must believe that Jesus did not establish a democracy - its His way or no way - He commissioned Peter and the apostles to carry forth His Church - He gave Peter the ability to, (and I paraphrase) “…bind and loose on earth shall be bound and loosed in Heaven…” From that point forward - you have to believe that our Popes - elected in and thru the Holy Spirit - teach and mold us in Jesus’ love and mercy. It was Jesus’ teachings that brought Him so many followers, not just some of His teachings - all of His teachings - and to deny even just one of His teachings is to deny Jesus Himself - therefore, today - in our modern world, for those of us who say to be Catholic - we must be Catholic in every single way - if we are not, and we refuse to accept certain teachings, then we forfeit our position as Catholic and are indeed protestant - as we then protest a teaching. If you protest a teaching, congratulations, you can hang a shingle out in front of your home and call your religion the church of you and me - and join the thousands of others before you who have done just that - and the Catholic church will always be the Catholic church - as it started in the beginning - is now and will be forever.
Click to expand...
I’d say the Church is becoming a democracy. It’s not there yet, but on the way. It will be a fascinating story to watch.

Consider the defeat of the Vatican on birth control. The people have voted with their pills.

Also, the people demanded a way to end marriages. In 1960 there were 300 Catholic annulments in the US. Last year there were 60,000. The people decided, and the Vatican followed.

If the people are part of the Church, and the HS guides the Church, why can’t he exert his guidance through the people?
 
40.png
goofyjim:
That is where I contend the lie is. The condom failure rate, even under ideal conditions, whatever they may be, is 30%. I know I wouldn’t hop on a plane if it had a 30% chance of crashing. As I said true chastity (abstinence until heterosexaul marriage and then fidelity) is the only 100% way to stay free of HIV.
Click to expand...
Here’s what the CDC says in two separate statements in the same document.

*“The surest way to avoid transmission of sexually transmitted diseases is to abstain from sexual intercourse, or to be in a long-term mutually monogamous relationship with a partner who has been tested and you know is uninfected.”

" Latex condoms, when used consistently and correctly, are highly effective in preventing transmission of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. In addition, correct and consistent use of latex condoms can reduce the risk of other sexually transmitted diseases (STDs), including discharge and genital ulcer diseases. While the effect of condoms in preventing human papillomavirus (HPV) infection is unknown, condom use has been associated with a lower rate of cervical cancer, an HPV-associated disease."*

cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/facts/condoms.htm
 
40.png
Ortho:
I’d say the Church is becoming a democracy. It’s not there yet, but on the way. It will be a fascinating story to watch.

Consider the defeat of the Vatican on birth control. The people have voted with their pills.

Also, the people demanded a way to end marriages. In 1960 there were 300 Catholic annulments in the US. Last year there were 60,000. The people decided, and the Vatican followed.

If the people are part of the Church, and the HS guides the Church, why can’t he exert his guidance through the people?
Click to expand...
Here we go with statistics again. In 1960, there were a lot less divorces for one thing. And nowadays, the attitude about marriage has gone so much down hill that there probably is a lot more to annul. A lot more marriages probably meet the criteria of being invalid.
 
40.png
Ortho:
Here’s what the CDC says in two separate statements in the same document.

“The surest way to avoid transmission of sexually transmitted diseases is to abstain from sexual intercourse, or to be in a long-term mutually monogamous relationship with a partner who has been tested and you know is uninfected.”

" Latex condoms, when used consistently and correctly, are highly effective in preventing transmission of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. In addition, correct and consistent use of latex condoms can reduce the risk of other sexually transmitted diseases (STDs), including discharge and genital ulcer diseases. While the effect of condoms in preventing human papillomavirus (HPV) infection is unknown, condom use has been associated with a lower rate of cervical cancer, an HPV-associated disease."

cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/facts/condoms.htm
Click to expand...
I prefer abstinence rather than a highly effective prevention. What is their definition of highly effective? One could, I suppose, say that 70% is high but it’s not worth the risk and I am not interested in a relationship outside of a traditional marriage.:amen:
 
40.png
luvmykids:
Here we go with statistics again. In 1960, there were a lot less divorces for one thing. And nowadays, the attitude about marriage has gone so much down hill that there probably is a lot more to annul. A lot more marriages probably meet the criteria of being invalid.
Click to expand...
Statistics help document change.

My point is simple. The people demanded a change and the Vatican changed.

I suspect the number of marriages that meet the annulment criteria is a function of the demands from the people.
 
*Originally Posted by Ortho
I’d say the Church is becoming a democracy. It’s not there yet, but on the way. It will be a fascinating story to watch.

Consider the defeat of the Vatican on birth control. The people have voted with their pills.*

I think you may be in the wrong forum - The Head of the church is Jesus Christ Himself - The Holy Spirit is the Church’s body - If you believe in the Trinity - these 3, in this case 2, are 1 in the same - therefore, there is no transormation into democracy - unless you are insenuating that Jesus is mutating into some other being not yet revealed to us - wait - maybe you’re right - I bet I can get some followers on this, I better get my chingle and hang it out quick before someone else does!!! The Church of the mutating Jesus - He begins as a King and gets over-run by his people and turns into a democracy - This will go over swell!!

And the only thing the people are voting for is their own condemnation - the people are being lied to by secular America and the media - keep your eyes on Christ and you’ll be in good shape when it comes time for you to face Him in your final judgment
 
40.png
goofyjim:
I prefer abstinence rather than a highly effective prevention. What is their definition of highly effective? One could, I suppose, say that 70% is high but it’s not worth the risk and I am not interested in a relationship outside of a traditional marriage.:amen:
Click to expand...
Each person has a different degree of risk they will accept in lfe. This applies to condoms as much as race car driving.

One could suppose the percent is many things. Best to ask them.

However, this is a good link to post when discussing the effectiveness of condoms. It’s especially important when instructing kids that they get good info. They will get it anyway, so why should parents lose credibility when they do?
 
40.png
Ortho:
Statistics help document change.

My point is simple. the people demanded a change and the Vatican changed.

I suspect the number of marriages that meet the annulment criteria is a function of the demands from the people.
Click to expand...
Statistics HELP document change, but it’s not an absolute, and you also have to take all things into consideration.

The amount of annulments per year have no relation to the Church’s teachings on faith and morals. If you haven’t noticed, the Church’s teachings on faith and morals has been consistent throughout the history of the Church. It’s the people that do as they please.
 
luvmykids said:
*Originally Posted by Ortho
I’d say the Church is becoming a democracy. It’s not there yet, but on the way. It will be a fascinating story to watch.

Consider the defeat of the Vatican on birth control. The people have voted with their pills.*

I think you may be in the wrong forum - The Head of the church is Jesus Christ Himself - The Holy Spirit is the Church’s body - If you believe in the Trinity - these 3, in this case 2, are 1 in the same - therefore, there is no transormation into democracy - unless you are insenuating that Jesus is mutating into some other being not yet revealed to us - wait - maybe you’re right - I bet I can get some followers on this, I better get my chingle and hang it out quick before someone else does!!! The Church of the mutating Jesus - He begins as a King and gets over-run by his people and turns into a democracy - This will go over swell!!

And the only thing the people are voting for is their own condemnation - the people are being lied to by secular America and the media - keep your eyes on Christ and you’ll be in good shape when it comes time for you to face Him in your final judgment
Click to expand...

One can study any organization and observe the actions it takes in response to pressure from membership. We observe huge numbers of Catholics rejecting Church birth control teachings, and we observe the Vatican and bishops doing nothing.

If the people are voting on their own condemnation, then I rest my case; they are voting. I suspect in some future years we will hear a pope say that in light of new scientific discoveries, and with a fuller understanding of the gift of life informed by such discoveries, the Vatican now allows birth control. Keeping quiet on the topic is a good first step.
 
luvmykids said:
Originally Posted by Ortho
I’d say the Church is becoming a democracy. It’s not there yet, but on the way. It will be a fascinating story to watch.

Consider the defeat of the Vatican on birth control. The people have voted with their pills.

I think you may be in the wrong forum - The Head of the church is Jesus Christ Himself - The Holy Spirit is the Church’s body - If you believe in the Trinity - these 3, in this case 2, are 1 in the same - therefore, there is no transormation into democracy - unless you are insenuating that Jesus is mutating into some other being not yet revealed to us - wait - maybe you’re right - I bet I can get some followers on this, I better get my chingle and hang it out quick before someone else does!!! The Church of the mutating Jesus - He begins as a King and gets over-run by his people and turns into a democracy - This will go over swell!!

And the only thing the people are voting for is their own condemnation - the people are being lied to by secular America and the media - keep your eyes on Christ and you’ll be in good shape when it comes time for you to face Him in your final judgment
Click to expand...

I would laugh if it wasn’t so true.
 
40.png
luvmykids:
Statistics HELP document change, but it’s not an absolute, and you also have to take all things into consideration.

The amount of annulments per year have no relation to the Church’s teachings on faith and morals. If you haven’t noticed, the Church’s teachings on faith and morals has been consistent throughout the history of the Church. It’s the people that do as they please.
Click to expand...
Of course the organization says it isn’t changing while it schanges from 300 to 60,000. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. That’s the nature of large organizations.

What was once included under morality slips the leash when it has to be changed. That’s where fuller understanding enters the picture.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top