Same-sex vs traditional parenting better or worse?

[Aeden]

anybody have stats I could use on the comparative benefits of traditional marriage on children vs same-sex parenting? Having a well-ordered, polite debate on it, which is rare, so I want to source some things if I can.

 

[Trigonometric]

It’s a shame we actually need a study to say what should be basic biology, but since we do, this is probably a good place to start.
familystructurestudies.com/
The ‘outcomes’ section shows how children raised in a variety of environments fare based on a variety of life outcomes and behavior. It’s peer-reviewed and has random sampling, whereas most of the studies cited in favor of homosexuality use non-random sampling.

 

[MarcoPolo]

From another thread.

MarcoPolo:

From a blog post by Jonathan Last at Weekly Standard, covering a large-scale study done by Douglas Allen in the new Review of Economics of the Household and analyzed by Mark Regnerus. This is a summary excerpt:*So what did Allen find? Three big effects:

* children of married opposite-sex families have a high graduation rate compared to the others;

• children of lesbian families have a very low graduation rate compared to the others;
• the other four types [common law, gay, single mother, single father] are similar to each other and lie in between the married/lesbian extremes

How much worse off were children of same-sex parents? Quite a bit. Here’s Regnerus again:

[T]he children of gay and lesbian couples are only about 65 percent as likely to have graduated from high school as the children of married, opposite-sex couples. And gender matters, too: girls are more apt to struggle than boys, with daughters of gay parents displaying dramatically low graduation rates. . . .

Employing regression models and series of control variables, Allen concludes that the substandard performance cannot be attributed to lower school attendance or the more modest education of gay or lesbian parents. Indeed, same-sex parents were characterized by higher levels of education, and their children were more likely to be enrolled in school than even those of married, opposite-sex couples. And yet their children are notably more likely to lag in finishing their own schooling.

The same is true of the young-adult children of common law parents, as well as single mothers and single fathers, highlighting how little—when you lean on large, high-quality samples—the data have actually changed over the past few decades. The intact, married mother-and-father household remains the gold standard for children’s progress through school.

It will be interesting to see if anyone cares about Allen’s findings. In America, I suspect they won’t. For better or worse, the fight over same-sex marriage in the states has turned on questions of fairness, federalism, natural law, and religious freedom. If our elites do bother to engage with Allen’s research, it will probably be only to tag him as History’s Greatest Monster for a day or so.​

*

 

[Back2Church]

I don’t have any studies or anything, but I can say one thing. Regardless of how the family is setup, if one or both of a child’s biological parents is not present, it has an affect on the child. I was raised by my grandmother, and when I was a kid, I used to come home from spending time at a friend’s house and bawl my eyes out because I couldn’t come home to my actual parents. Being at a friend’s would give me little “previews” as to what life might have been like with my own parents.

Just recently, one of my daughter’s school friends came over to hang out after school. She’s 8 or 9, and lives with two moms (one of them is her biological mother). At one point, my daughter was telling her about her usual after-school routine of eating popsicles and coloring on the patio with chalk with me (dad), and her friend got a distant expression and said, “I wish my dad lived with me.” She stood there quietly for a moment, staring off into the yard. Her expression started to turn sad, but she caught herself and brushed it off and started asking my daughter about toys. I knew exactly how she felt in that moment. I’ve been there countless times, myself, throughout my childhood. It was painful to see, and I wanted to just give her a hug, but I knew from my own experience that would have just made it worse.

I can’t tell you any statistics or anything like that. I’m not even making a case against same-sex parenthood. All I know is that children want to be connected with their real parents. Both of them. An absence of either one really does take its toll.

It’s a life-long thing, too. My mother-in-law was a foster kid. Never knew her parents growing up. She finally got to meet them when she was in her 50s. Even though she had never known them, and even though she had spent over half a century on this earth without them, she cried her eyes out with both heartache and joy when she finally got to meet them.

The connection to parents is real. It’s substantial. Even if you can’t see it. Even if the child has convinced himself in believing he doesn’t love that parent he never met and doesn’t need them. You just can’t make up for it.

 

[TigerKitty]

Not to throw a wrench into your studies, but I just read an article in this past Sunday’s Philadelphia Inquirer about “polyamory”, and I couldn’t believe what I was reading.

1 man, 2 women, all three married (not legally, of course) to one another. They were raising an 18 month old who is the son of the man with a different woman (not either of the 2 women he “married”).

And - each had “sweeties” on the side…and some of these “sweeties” were also in open marriages.

The author of the article was positively gushing about how great it was that this little boy was surrounded by so many adults who love him. I was completely repulsed.

BTW - Also raised by a single father - my mom died when I was 8 - no warning - very sudden - and I often wonder how my life would be different if she didn’t die. I have struggled a lot with things, and continue to - and now I’m in my early 40’s. Odd, though, were I raised by a single parent today, I’d be considered “normal”.

 

[SuperLuigi]

The progressives love to toss around studies that show gay parenting is better than straight parenting.

But without random sampling, it’s garbage in = garbage out.

Listen, if my research group put forth a study in the sciences without random sampling and tried to use it for policy guidance, we’d be laughed at and the study would go into the shredder.

Also, from the studies I’ve seen, gay divorce rates are comparable to straight ones if not higher, the average gay relationship is less than 2 years and gay folks tend to have a lot of sex partners.

Now, is that a stable lifestyle that the state should recognize and invest in?

 

[SuperLuigi]

Not to throw a wrench into your studies, but I just read an article in this past Sunday’s Philadelphia Inquirer about “polyamory”, and I couldn’t believe what I was reading.

1 man, 2 women, all three married (not legally, of course) to one another. They were raising an 18 month old who is the son of the man with a different woman (not either of the 2 women he “married”).

And - each had “sweeties” on the side…and some of these “sweeties” were also in open marriages.

The author of the article was positively gushing about how great it was that this little boy was surrounded by so many adults who love him. I was completely repulsed.

BTW - Also raised by a single father - my mom died when I was 8 - no warning - very sudden - and I often wonder how my life would be different if she didn’t die. I have struggled a lot with things, and continue to - and now I’m in my early 40’s. Odd, though, were I raised by a single parent today, I’d be considered “normal”.

So where’s the “two consenting adults” crowd?

You know, all those gay rights activists who promised to help us stop polygamy type relationships because “two consenting adults” is the limit??

–Just remember this when non-Catholics “promise” to defend us if the government forces religious institutions to marry people we don’t want to.

 

[Robertanthony]

I don’t have any studies or anything, but I can say one thing. Regardless of how the family is setup, if one or both of a child’s biological parents is not present, it has an affect on the child. I was raised by my grandmother, and when I was a kid, I used to come home from spending time at a friend’s house and bawl my eyes out because I couldn’t come home to my actual parents. Being at a friend’s would give me little “previews” as to what life might have been like with my own parents.

Just recently, one of my daughter’s school friends came over to hang out after school. She’s 8 or 9, and lives with two moms (one of them is her biological mother). At one point, my daughter was telling her about her usual after-school routine of eating popsicles and coloring on the patio with chalk with me (dad), and her friend got a distant expression and said, **“I wish my dad lived with me.” ** She stood there quietly for a moment, staring off into the yard. Her expression started to turn sad, but she caught herself and brushed it off and started asking my daughter about toys. I knew exactly how she felt in that moment. I’ve been there countless times, myself, throughout my childhood. It was painful to see, and I wanted to just give her a hug, but I knew from my own experience that would have just made it worse.

I can’t tell you any statistics or anything like that. I’m not even making a case against same-sex parenthood. All I know is that children want to be connected with their real parents. Both of them. An absence of either one really does take its toll.

It’s a life-long thing, too. My mother-in-law was a foster kid. Never knew her parents growing up. She finally got to meet them when she was in her 50s. Even though she had never known them, and even though she had spent over half a century on this earth without them, she cried her eyes out with both heartache and joy when she finally got to meet them.

The connection to parents is real. It’s substantial. Even if you can’t see it. Even if the child has convinced himself in believing he doesn’t love that parent he never met and doesn’t need them. You just can’t make up for it.

If she’s ever on Ellen Degeneres’ Show, that bit will be edited out, no worry. It’s not like she meant it anyway. Irony aside, it’s terribly sad and upsetting.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

God can take all situations and lead us to him if we are open to His will.

I have heard of catholic charities who politely turned down a gay couple AND gave that same couple phone numbers of adoption agencies who could help them. What miffs me is when $$$$ is tossed down the legal system to destroy hard working charities (adoption agencies) or have their morals spit on. Why not use the $$$$ instead to create a competitive charity that fits special group interests? If it’s truly better, then shouldn’t come competiton close the weaker one vs the government?

Problem is, too many are not open to God, too many are too lazy for good old Amerian hard work and want a fat lazy government to lead us.

 

[St_Francis]

Even Regnerus said the study he worked on was not perfect to see the effects of homosexuals raising children because the pool of people raised by children is so small, bit this is the only study which is set up in a remotely scientific way, so it is currently the most accurate.

Other studies have studied people who volunteered, by asking them about how their children are doing. This is not scientific, it is set up to be so biased that it is simply ridiculous. Sure if you only take diamonds from a river it is easy to say that a high percentage of river ricks are diamonds! And sure if you ask the parents, it will seem like the children are doing very well!

Additionally, some of the outcomes shown in these studies are not seen as bad outcomes. So the fact that those raised by homosexuals are more likely to experiment with homosexual activity is not seen as a bad outcome, for example. The result is that studies may show what we would consider a bad outcome, but be publicized as showing no bad outcomes.

 

[SpidersfromMars]

A common criticism of the Regnerus study is that most of the children of the same-sex parents didn’t belong to a same-sex household until later in life, assumedly because their biological parents’ relationship fractured e.g. mum and dad divorce, mum gets a same-sex partner. And so they were affected negatively in the same way children of straight parents who divorce and re-partner can be.

What would be interesting is a study of children who have all been raised by same-sex parents from infancy.

 

[HoneyBea]

From another thread.

Is it possibly these outcomes are because of society’s non acceptance of gays and the effects that has on the children knowing their parents are not accepted in society and feeling as if neither are themselves? Feeling out casts, shamed, embarrassed, resentment etc. all these weigh heavily on a child. Perhaps the studies will be very different in 20 years now that there is progressively more acceptance for same sex families.

I’m not advocating for gay marriages, but I do want to be objective.

I don’t doubt there are other reasons attributing to these results. The importance of both parents can not disputed (in my opinion) and also the in the manner which they were conceived. As weird as it sounds I like the idea that I was brought to life because my parents were in love and got it on one night…or day.

 

[marymary1975]

I don’t have any studies or anything, but I can say one thing. Regardless of how the family is setup, if one or both of a child’s biological parents is not present, it has an affect on the child. I was raised by my grandmother, and when I was a kid, I used to come home from spending time at a friend’s house and bawl my eyes out because I couldn’t come home to my actual parents. Being at a friend’s would give me little “previews” as to what life might have been like with my own parents.

Just recently, one of my daughter’s school friends came over to hang out after school. She’s 8 or 9, and lives with two moms (one of them is her biological mother). At one point, my daughter was telling her about her usual after-school routine of eating popsicles and coloring on the patio with chalk with me (dad), and her friend got a distant expression and said, “I wish my dad lived with me.” She stood there quietly for a moment, staring off into the yard. Her expression started to turn sad, but she caught herself and brushed it off and started asking my daughter about toys. I knew exactly how she felt in that moment. I’ve been there countless times, myself, throughout my childhood. It was painful to see, and I wanted to just give her a hug, but I knew from my own experience that would have just made it worse.

I can’t tell you any statistics or anything like that. I’m not even making a case against same-sex parenthood. All I know is that children want to be connected with their real parents. Both of them. An absence of either one really does take its toll.

It’s a life-long thing, too. My mother-in-law was a foster kid. Never knew her parents growing up. She finally got to meet them when she was in her 50s. Even though she had never known them, and even though she had spent over half a century on this earth without them, she cried her eyes out with both heartache and joy when she finally got to meet them.

The connection to parents is real. It’s substantial. Even if you can’t see it. Even if the child has convinced himself in believing he doesn’t love that parent he never met and doesn’t need them. You just can’t make up for it.

I don’t have too much time now but just wanted to point that I am the daughter of a single mother from the onset and I agree on everything you say here. From life experience I can atest that is true.

 

[Aeden]

Is it possibly these outcomes are because of society’s non acceptance of gays and the effects that has on the children knowing their parents are not accepted in society and feeling as if neither are themselves? Feeling out casts, shamed, embarrassed, resentment etc. all these weigh heavily on a child. Perhaps the studies will be very different in 20 years now that there is progressively more acceptance for same sex families.

I’m not advocating for gay marriages, but I do want to be objective.

An opponent could make that argument, but it’s impossible to make any kind of study comparing that which does exist to that which does not, so it’d be hard for them to give some kind of evidence in favor of it, while I could just point out that, as it can’t be measured in any fashion, let alone an objective one, it isn’t valid as a point in a debate.

As weird as it sounds I like the idea that I was brought to life because my parents were in love and got it on one night…or day.

Wasn’t there an xkcd comic about that once?

xkcd.com/830/

 

[Elizium23]

“Better” and “worse” are two vague metrics that cannot be quantified. All studies are going to use some form of measurable tests to prove one is “better” than the other, and there is the thing. If there is even one metric which can be observed to improve with homosexual “parenting” then it will be heralded as a success. Eventually the psychological establishment (which is extremely corrupt and packed with secular atheists who have bought into Population Control) will become extremely good at studying homosexual “parents” and will hand in one study after another that trumpets the good stuff that is going on in those families. Sadly for them, other people will be studying it too.

 

[Faithdancer]

Perhaps in conjunction with this debate, a moment of prayer is in order for all of the children who are affected by the ongoing social experiment that is same-sex couple-based “parenting.”

 

[Robertanthony]

Is it possibly these outcomes are because of society’s non acceptance of gays and the effects that has on the children knowing their parents are not accepted in society and feeling as if neither are themselves? Feeling out casts, shamed, embarrassed, resentment etc. all these weigh heavily on a child. Perhaps the studies will be very different in 20 years now that there is progressively more acceptance for same sex families.

I’m not advocating for gay marriages, but I do want to be objective.

I don’t doubt there are other reasons attributing to these results. The importance of both parents can not disputed (in my opinion) and also the in the manner which they were conceived. As weird as it sounds I like the idea that I was brought to life because my parents were in love and got it on one night…or day.

That’s not weird at all. Life and love should be celebrations. Should.

 

[SuperLuigi]

s it possibly these outcomes are because of society’s non acceptance of gays and the effects that has on the children knowing their parents are not accepted in society and feeling as if neither are themselves? Feeling out casts, shamed, embarrassed, resentment etc. all these weigh heavily on a child. Perhaps the studies will be very different in 20 years now that there is progressively more acceptance for same sex families.

Listen, it’s not that GLBTQ folks are NEVER treated bad, but I think you’re buying too much into this American victim mentality a little too much. Even if progressive activists were made supreme rules of the universe, they’d still be running around trying to portray themselves as sad little victims who need social support.

Being gay or different in some manner in today’s society is cool. If you are gay, you’ll likely get all kinds of special attention. I even think some guys pretend to be gay or threaten to be gay just to get attention from women—yes, that’s how bad it is.

 

[HoneyBea]

Listen, it’s not that GLBTQ folks are NEVER treated bad, but I think you’re buying too much into this American victim mentality a little too much. Even if progressive activists were made supreme rules of the universe, they’d still be running around trying to portray themselves as sad little victims who need social support.

Being gay or different in some manner in today’s society is cool. If you are gay, you’ll likely get all kinds of special attention. I even think some guys pretend to be gay or threaten to be gay just to get attention from women—yes, that’s how bad it is.

I agree whole heartily, but I’m talking about the children. I think they do buy into the victimization and genuinely feel like outcasts because of their "parents"projections.

 

[quiet52]

Mark Regnerus and the storm over his controversial gay parenting study
lifesitenews.com/news/mark-regnerus-and-the-storm-over-his-controversial-gay-parenting-studd

And whereas Marks offered only well-founded criticism of previous research, Regnerus offered something new: the first research employing a large, random sample of the young adult population, directly asking them about their childhood experiences and their present state of life, across a range of variables touching on economic and educational success, romantic and sexual experience, substance abuse, experiences with crime and violence, and so forth.

Regnerus and his colleagues in the New Family Structures Study (NFSS), working with the research firm Knowledge Networks, screened more than 15,000 Americans between the ages of 18 and 39, and interviewed nearly 3,000 of them. The subjects’ family experiences were sorted into eight categories, ranging from the intact biological family (with the subject’s parents still together at the time of interview), across various family structures involving divorce, remarriage, adoption, and single-parenting, with two categories for subjects raised by mothers or fathers who had same-sex romantic relationships during their childhood.

The results were dismal for the “no differences” thesis: on 25 out of 40 outcomes variables, the children of mothers who had had lesbian relationships fared poorly compared to the children of intact biological families. And on 11 of the 40 outcomes, the children of fathers who had had gay relationships fared poorly on the same comparison

A married mom and dad really do matter: New evidence from Canada
lifesitenews.com/news/a-married-mom-and-dad-really-do-matter-new-evidence-from-canada

A study published last month in the journal Review of the Economics of the Household—analyzing data from a very large, population-based sample—reveals that the children of gay and lesbian couples are only about 65 percent as likely to have graduated from high school as the children of married, opposite-sex couples. And gender matters, too: girls are more apt to struggle than boys, with daughters of gay parents displaying dramatically low graduation rates.

Unlike US-based studies, this one evaluates a 20 percent sample of the Canadian census, where same-sex couples have had access to all taxation and government benefits since 1997 and to marriage since 2005.