Same Sex Wedding

[YipYupYep]

It would entirely close off any idea of a dialog, and thus any idea of a conversion

What dialog? What is there to say? There is no “collective bargaining” here.

What part about these two guys sodomizing each other are we going to have dialog on?

 

[IGCampbell]

You can approach it theologically, and drive him further away from the church, or theologically and psychologically, which will keep him open to conversation. Do you want to save his soul, or just prove your orthodoxy? Choice is yours.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

You can approach it theologically, and drive him further away from the church, or theologically and psychologically, which will keep him open to conversation. Do you want to save his soul, or just prove your orthodoxy? Choice is yours.

You make an excellent point and underscore how really difficult this may be for the brother in question. How do you truly make him feel loved and accepted and not shamed while refusing to go to his wedding?

What if this were his sister, and she were marrying an abusive man? It would be a similar dilemma. He would know in his heart that for his sister to marry an abusive man, and possibly bring children into the world with a father like that, would not be in God’s plan for her. It would be an abuse of her privlidge to chose a mate- and a choice that could lead to the destruction of her soul.

And yet, in the end, when the brother who is entering a homosexual union has to give an account of his soul, would you want to be the brother who attended the wedding, and hear what your brother had to say to you? Wouldn’t he say, “my brother, if you truly loved me you would have done everything in your power to allow me to see that my flesh was destroying me.”

For that reason, if I were this brother, I would send him a loving note, telling him that I will do everything in my power to love and accept him and his partner, but I will not cease praying for them to see their union as based on an illusion of the flesh and not based on God’s love and will for their lives, and to that end I cannot attend the wedding, because I believe that its intent is like poison to their soul. I would strive to be as truly respectful and loving as possible in that note.

 

[YipYupYep]

You can approach it theologically, and drive him further away from the church, or theologically and psychologically, which will keep him open to conversation. Do you want to save his soul, or just prove your orthodoxy? Choice is yours.

Okay sure. I understand what you just said, however you did not answer my basic question. What in the world would you talk about?

 

[IGCampbell]

Okay sure. I understand what you just said, however you did not answer my basic question. What in the world would you talk about?

Love. God. Politics. The Red Sox. Anything to keep the lines of communication open and let your brother know that you love him and are there for him. There’s absolutely no advantage to refusing to go to the “wedding” as long as you’re not participating in it.

Think of it like this: therapists don’t expect change overnight, immediately, or even quickly. It’s a gradual process that requires communication between the patient and the therapist. Refusal to attend the wedding will more than likely cause him to “leave therapy” for the foreseeable future, and then nothing can get done.

 

[YipYupYep]

Refusal to attend the wedding will more than likely cause him to “leave therapy” for the foreseeable future, and then nothing can get done.

How did we go from a dialog to attending the gay wedding???

That would be a communication all right. It would communicate your validation. Your acceptance. You would be getting in agreement with the premise. You cant do that. There will be evil prayers and a false doctrine. Oh man. What a totally disgusting thing to witness. Good grief!

No my friend. That’s no place for a Catholic at a Satanic Ritual of evil, and that is exactly what it is.

 

[AndyF]

I have a friend whose brother is getting married in CA and he thinking of going even though he knows that it is wrong.

Any advise?

He wouldn’t be attending a wedding, but a cult ritual presided over by satan. Anyone reliquishing to satans demands in the least diminishes his protective grace.

If God won’t attend, why would anyone else.?

God’s definition of Marriage includes the requirement that both sexes be different.

Andy

 

[YipYupYep]

. If God won’t attend, why would anyone else.?

Wow.

That really sums this whole deal up.

 

[crenfro]

I’m not sure about everything on the site where I got this stuff from (tldm.org/default.htm)), but I know the following to be true:

Admonishing the sinner is one of the spiritual works of mercy.

Also, this particular passage on the above mentioned site has the idea I’m trying to convey–>

We know from the story of Samuel in the Old Testament that a hesitation to admonish those we love existed in the priest, Heli (1 Kings 2:22-36). Because he hesitated to correct the inappropriate and even blasphemous offenses of his sons, he brought disaster not only upon himself but upon his two sons and his house as well (1 Kings 4:1-18). Jesus warns us about the sin of omission, what we fail to do: “Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me” (Matthew 25:45). Among the ways we can be accessory to another person’s sin is through command, counsel, consent, praise, provocation, silence, assistance, defense of the evil done, and not punishing the evildoer. Being silent when it is our duty to speak out is a sin. The Catholic Encyclopedia states that everyone “is bound to give the admonition when the sin, committed though it be from ignorance, is hurtful to the offender or a third party or is the occasion of scandal.”​

I also like what Father Corapi says in some of his talks. He says “I’m not going to go to Hell for anybody.”

Hope this helps. If not, please disregard. Many blessings.

 

[IGCampbell]

How did we go from a dialog to attending the gay wedding???

You want to bring him back to the church eventually, don’t you?

That would be a communication all right. It would communicate your validation. Your acceptance. You would be getting in agreement with the premise. You cant do that. There will be evil prayers and a false doctrine. Oh man. What a totally disgusting thing to witness. Good grief!

No my friend. That’s no place for a Catholic at a Satanic Ritual of evil, and that is exactly what it is.

Participation would communicate validation. If you make it clear that it’s against your beliefs but you’re attending (and only attending) out of love for him, you’re witnessing gently.

 

[YipYupYep]

gently[/I].

As written by Angels Unaware in post #61: And yet, in the end, when the brother who is entering a homosexual union has to give an account of his soul, would you want to be the brother who attended the wedding, and hear what your brother had to say to you? Wouldn’t he say, “my brother, if you truly loved me you would have done everything in your power to allow me to see that my flesh was destroying me.”

And what about you and your own walk? How will you atone for this sin? Connect the dots. Will you not be asked by you Divine King why you validated the unholy alliance by your attendance? Are you be willing to serve out, with them, there debt to the Justice of The Most High God?

I mean, what about you brother, being a part of a demonic rite of your own free will. There false god is lust. Do you really want to worship at that alter?

“You may now kiss the bride”

 

[YipYupYep]

Participation would communicate validation. If you make it clear that it’s against your beliefs but you’re attending (and only attending) out of love for him, you’re witnessing gently.

As written by Angels Unaware in post #61: And yet, in the end, when the brother who is entering a homosexual union has to give an account of his soul, would you want to be the brother who attended the wedding, and hear what your brother had to say to you? Wouldn’t he say, “my brother, if you truly loved me you would have done everything in your power to allow me to see that my flesh was destroying me.”

And what about you and your own walk? How will you atone for this sin? Connect the dots. Will you not be asked by you Divine King why you validated the unholy alliance by your attendance? Will you be willing to serve out, with them, there debt to the Justice of The Most High God?

I mean, what about you brother, being a part of a demonic rite of your own free will. There false god is lust. Do you really want to worship at that alter?

“You may now kiss the bride”

 

[IGCampbell]

And yet, in the end, when the brother who is entering a homosexual union has to give an account of his soul, would you want to be the brother who attended the wedding, and hear what your brother had to say to you? Wouldn’t he say, “my brother, if you truly loved me you would have done everything in your power to allow me to see that my flesh was destroying me.”

Or if, through continued communication, your brother repents and when accounting says “My brother, you truly loved me and witnessed gently, and so brought me back to God.” It all hinges on the likelihood of his repenting and returning. Another scenario is “My brother, if you truly loved me you would have witnessed gently rather than closing yourself off to me, you would not have removed yourself from my life but been a shining beacon in my life constantly showing me the Way, and that the way is still open to me. But you chose the un-gentle way, and it only hardened my heart further.”

And what about you and your own walk? How will you atone for this sin? Connect the dots. Will you not be asked by you Divine King why you validated the unholy alliance by your attendance? Will you be willing to serve out, with them, there debt to the Justice of The Most High God?

Again, we’re talking from two entirely different viewpoints. Participating in it would be a sin, but I wouldn’t consider attending a sin, as long as your feelings are known.

Will you not be asked by your Divine King why you drove someone further away from Him?

 

[larsegarots]

There is no actual stealing in the planning of a robbery and

no lives are lost during the planning of a murder.

I think you are comparing apples to oranges. In your example, you are planning to steal, cause harm, and kill, which is obviously wrong. In a wedding, you are not planning to cause harm on, or kill anyone. You are not planning to perform any homosexual acts. Two people are expressing their commitment to each other - simple as that.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Or if, through continued communication, your brother repents and when accounting says “My brother, you truly loved me and witnessed gently, and so brought me back to God.” It all hinges on the likelihood of his repenting and returning. Another scenario is “My brother, if you truly loved me you would have witnessed gently rather than closing yourself off to me, you would not have removed yourself from my life but been a shining beacon in my life constantly showing me the Way, and that the way is still open to me. But you chose the un-gentle way, and it only hardened my heart further.”

The assumption that by not attending you must necessarily lack gentleness is not correct. I understand what you are getting at, and the importance of stressing love and acceptance until the brother is ready to confront his sin. But I disagree that not attending cannot be accomplished in a very gentle and loving way.

What if your brother sent you a carefully crafted invitation to join him in a ceremony celebrating shooting heroin, and how great shooting heroin into his veins has been for him? What if he told you that his chosen religion was hedonism, and he had every right to enjoy the pleasure of intravenous drugs? Would you attend?

And once again, would you attend the wedding of your sister if you knew her future husband had abused her?

 

[Annn]

And once again, would you attend the wedding of your sister if you knew her future husband had abused her?

This is completely different.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

This is completely different.

How? Is homosexuality not abusing the body?

Or is being married to someone who is abusive somehow acceptable in your eyes?

 

[estesbob]

I think you are comparing apples to oranges. In your example, you are planning to steal, cause harm, and kill, which is obviously wrong. In a wedding, you are not planning to cause harm on, or kill anyone. You are not planning to perform any homosexual acts. Two people are expressing their commitment to each other - simple as that.

So you believe they are expressing their commitment to each other while at the same time vowing to be celibate? And why do they have to make a mockery of marriage to declare their commitment to each other?

 

[IGCampbell]

The assumption that by not attending you must necessarily lack gentleness is not correct. I understand what you are getting at, and the importance of stressing love and acceptance until the brother is ready to confront his sin. But I disagree that not attending cannot be accomplished in a very gentle and loving way.

Oh I’ll admit that you can refuse to attend in a gentle way. I just don’t think many people at all possess the tact to do it without mucking the whole thing up.

What if your brother sent you a carefully crafted invitation to join him in a ceremony celebrating shooting heroin, and how great shooting heroin into his veins has been for him? What if he told you that his chosen religion was hedonism, and he had every right to enjoy the pleasure of intravenous drugs? Would you attend?

The negative effects of shooting heroin are much more physically apparent, and the practice is almost universally rejected. While I understand your argument theologically, the practicalities don’t line up.

And once again, would you attend the wedding of your sister if you knew her future husband had abused her?

Again, I don’t think this is necessarily a proper analog, but I would absolutely go to the wedding, so that she knows I’m there for her regardless, and will protect her as much as I can. I would also be there to bring a very clear message to her husband. Not going would make her rely even more on her abuser, much like not going to the wedding would make my brother rely even more on his homosexual partner.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Again, I don’t think this is necessarily a proper analog, but I would absolutely go to the wedding, so that she knows I’m there for her regardless, and will protect her as much as I can. I would also be there to bring a very clear message to her husband.** Not going would make her rely even more on her abuser**, much like not going to the wedding would make my brother rely even more on his homosexual partner.

In my experience, not necessarily. Abused women often were abused children, and because of that cannot admit that they are being treated badly. They tend to deny and make excuses for the abuser. So, if you want to be there for an abused woman, you need to be there for her consistently. That means never pretending to support her marriage for the sake of peace, because if you do that, it will reinforce her own denial. She will say, but Aunt Laura must not think he’s that bad, she came to our wedding. This is really how abused women think.

But to prevent the thread from de-railing, the point that I am trying to make is that God tells us that homosexuality is the abuse of the body. Either we believe this, or we reject this. If we believe this, it is not different than heroin and dysfunctional, addictive relationships. In fact, it is very much like both heroin and abusive relationship.

This is a very difficult position for me to take, because even though I have never had issues with homosexuality, I feel great sympathy and compassion for them. Years ago, if you are old enough to recall, this was such a taboo subject that the only person ever talking about it openly was Phil Donohue. I remember watching those shows and thinking, ‘These poor misunderstood people. I feel so bad for them. Why can’t people just let them live?’

God has, ironically, made me more conservative on this issue as He has revealed more of His mercy and compassion. He greatly desires that people rely on Him for love and fulfillment and NOT the flesh.