Samson, Delilah, and the Modern Jew

[Young_Thinker]

First of all, I would say ‘hello’ to anyone who may read this. Fairly recently, I read in a book(a volume of"Encyclopedia Britannica," from what I remember) that Jews do not commonly accept a literal interpretation of the story of Samson or he even existed. Instead, they often feel that he is a personification of Israel’s struggle with her enemies. Why would that be so, since, if I am correct, they almost universally believe that Moses actually parted the Red Sea(or the Sea of Reeds). Do Jews seem to usually have little faith in miracles and the like? Of course, I am speaking about those whom actually hold the Talmud and Pentateuch as being true(and requiring a belief in Yahweh), not, say, the Revisitionistic Jews, who are more cultural than religious (and are a little like Unitarian Universalists). Muslims believe in miracles(and love Jesus and Mary), so would Jews be any different from other “People of the Book”(aside than their historically antagonistic relationship with Christianity which perhaps has been, at least until lately, deeper than that between Muslims and Christians)? I would appreciate any thoughts upon this subject.

 

[StrawberryJam]

First of all, I would say ‘hello’ to anyone who may read this. Fairly recently, I read in a book(a volume of"Encyclopedia Britannica," from what I remember) that Jews do not commonly accept a literal interpretation of the story of Samson or he even existed. Instead, they often feel that he is a personification of Israel’s struggle with her enemies. Why would that be so, since, if I am correct, they almost universally believe that Moses actually parted the Red Sea(or the Sea of Reeds). Do Jews seem to usually have little faith in miracles and the like? Of course, I am speaking about those whom actually hold the Talmud and Pentateuch as being true(and requiring a belief in Yahweh), not, say, the Revisitionistic Jews, who are more cultural than religious (and are a little like Unitarian Universalists). Muslims believe in miracles(and love Jesus and Mary), so would Jews be any different from other “People of the Book”(aside than their historically antagonistic relationship with Christianity which perhaps has been, at least until lately, deeper than that between Muslims and Christians)? I would appreciate any thoughts upon this subject.

Let me get this right. You are saying that since Moses’ actions in the bible were taken literally then why wouldn’t all persons (or at least Samson’s) actions be taken as literal as well.

Mathmatically speaking you are starting off with the premise that Moses and Samson were complete equals in importance.

That is where your reasoning fails. We can clearly see they were not, and God does play favorites.

 

[Young_Thinker]

Let me get this right. You are saying that since Moses’ actions in the bible were taken literally then why wouldn’t all persons (or at least Samson’s) actions be taken as literal as well.

Mathmatically speaking you are starting off with the premise that Moses and Samson were complete equals in importance.

That is where your reasoning fails. We can clearly see they were not, and God does play favorites.

No, that is not what I am attempting to convey. I am saying that many within Judaism do not acknowledge that Samson even existed. Using that logic, why would they believe that Job was an actual person, either (particularly since he was supposedly not Hebrew and lived at c. 1800 B.C.- at about the time of Joseph)? I am not speaking about whom was more important, but I am emphasizing an apparent disbelief in supernatural actions. As for God really having favorites, that is, frankly, not a definite fact. Yes, He chose people do certain things(and the Israelites were, of course, descendants of Abraham and Isaac), but that need not mean He loved one more than another. He seemingly just knew, for instance, David would make a good King of Israel, not that He annointed him because he loved him more than any of his brothers, Saul, or Jonathan.

 

[Kaninchen]

First of all, I would say ‘hello’ to anyone who may read this. Fairly recently, I read in a book(a volume of"Encyclopedia Britannica," from what I remember) that Jews do not commonly accept a literal interpretation of the story of Samson or he even existed. Instead, they often feel that he is a personification of Israel’s struggle with her enemies. Why would that be so, since, if I am correct, they almost universally believe that Moses actually parted the Red Sea(or the Sea of Reeds). Do Jews seem to usually have little faith in miracles and the like? Of course, I am speaking about those whom actually hold the Talmud and Pentateuch as being true(and requiring a belief in Yahweh), not, say, the Revisitionistic Jews, who are more cultural than religious (and are a little like Unitarian Universalists). Muslims believe in miracles(and love Jesus and Mary), so would Jews be any different from other “People of the Book”(aside than their historically antagonistic relationship with Christianity which perhaps has been, at least until lately, deeper than that between Muslims and Christians)? I would appreciate any thoughts upon this subject.

I think one of the main problems you face here is an expectation, on your part, that Judaism (whether Orthodox of non-Orthodox) does, or should, ‘work’ in the same kind of way as Christianity - it doesn’t, Christianity isn’t Judaism plus Jesus and Judaism isn’t Christianity minus Jesus. If you keep thinking so, you won’t begin to understand Judaism in the sense that Jews understand it - it really is a ‘chalk and cheese’ thing.

Cutting a long, long story very short, there’s the Torah (the ‘Law’, Pentateuch to you) and everything else could be described as ‘commentaries’ on it - whether it’s the Prophets or the Writings (which make up the rest of the Tanakh, ie what you call the ‘Old Testament’). The relationship to the text is thus quite different - not least because the purpose of the Tanakh is not to prove a man was God, unlike the ‘Old Testament’.

The Talmud (which I think you’re confusing with the Torah, by the way) is best described as commentary as well.

To save me from typing, this seems a reasonable synopsis on the subject of miracles.

 

[StrawberryJam]

No, that is not what I am attempting to convey. I am saying that many within Judaism do not acknowledge that Samson even existed. Using that logic, why would they believe that Job was an actual person, either (particularly since he was supposedly not Hebrew and lived at c. 1800 B.C.- at about the time of Joseph)? I am not speaking about whom was more important, but I am emphasizing an apparent disbelief in supernatural actions. As for God really having favorites, that is, frankly, not a definite fact. Yes, He chose people do certain things(and the Israelites were, of course, descendants of Abraham and Isaac), but that need not mean He loved one more than another. He seemingly just knew, for instance, David would make a good King of Israel, not that He annointed him because he loved him more than any of his brothers, Saul, or Jonathan.

I personally like the way he loved Solomon. He was supposed to be wise, but what man in his right mind is wise to want multiple wives? Isn’t one enough to deal with? Most men would say one is plenty. But, since it was because of his insatiable desire for so many women that led to his downfall, I guess this bible story makes the most sense of all of them.

 

[Young_Thinker]

I personally like the way he loved Solomon. He was supposed to be wise, but what man in his right mind is wise to want multiple wives? Isn’t one enough to deal with? Most men would say one is plenty. But, since it was because of his insatiable desire for so many women that led to his downfall, I guess this bible story makes the most sense of all of them.

Succintly, great men are often the worst sinners. Think of all of the depraved geniuses(especially when it comes to brilliant generals and statesmen) that we have had in history. Remember, that polygyny is still allowed in Islam, but that is already in another discussion. I like your dry sense of humor, though.

 

[Young_Thinker]

Thank you.

I think one of the main problems you face here is an expectation, on your part, that Judaism (whether Orthodox of non-Orthodox) does, or should, ‘work’ in the same kind of way as Christianity - it doesn’t, Christianity isn’t Judaism plus Jesus and Judaism isn’t Christianity minus Jesus. If you keep thinking so, you won’t begin to understand Judaism in the sense that Jews understand it - it really is a ‘chalk and cheese’ thing.

Cutting a long, long story very short, there’s the Torah (the ‘Law’, Pentateuch to you) and everything else could be described as ‘commentaries’ on it - whether it’s the Prophets or the Writings (which make up the rest of the Tanakh, ie what you call the ‘Old Testament’). The relationship to the text is thus quite different - not least because the purpose of the Tanakh is not to prove a man was God, unlike the ‘Old Testament’.

The Talmud (which I think you’re confusing with the Torah, by the way) is best described as commentary as well.

To save me from typing, this seems a reasonable synopsis on the subject of miracles.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Succintly, great men are often the worst sinners. Think of all of the depraved geniuses(especially when it comes to brilliant generals and statesmen) that we have had in history. Remember, that polygyny is still allowed in Islam, but that is already in another discussion. I like your dry sense of humor, though.

You are very charitable in your witness. I wish I could give a reccomend somehow to people inquiring of christian views to look for you. Heck, I can do that anyway if you don’t mind me doing it on athiest forums where sometimes there are people seeking that stumble in there. If it’s okay with you, I would heartily reccomend you as a person to bounce things off of.

 

[Young_Thinker]

Thanks.

You are very charitable in your witness. I wish I could give a reccomend somehow to people inquiring of christian views to look for you. Heck, I can do that anyway if you don’t mind me doing it on athiest forums where sometimes there are people seeking that stumble in there. If it’s okay with you, I would heartily reccomend you as a person to bounce things off of.