San Francisco Cathedral Architecture

[Navarre]

That’s strange, because I’ve always found the organ at St. Mary’s of the Maytag to be underpowered and swallowed up by the odd acoustics. You were probably sitting in an acoustical hot spot, of which St. Mary’s has many. It’s a fine Ruffatti instrument but underscaled for the space. Perhaps if it had been placed in the rear of the church, the acoustics would have been less spotty.

I recently visited Oakland’s new Cathedral of Christ the Light, and despite my preference for traditional Gothic architecture, I found it aesthetically more pleasing than I expected, at least the interior. They are not finished with the decoration, so it looks spartan, but unlike the almost cartoonish Taj Mahoney, Oakland has symmetry and plenty of light. That being said, if given the responsibility, I would never commission something so modernistic.

I didn’t find anything “cartoonish” about Our Lady of the Angels Cathedral in Los Angeles if you are indeed using the slur “Taj Mahony” (no e) to describe her.

Quite the opposite actually. If anything it’s a bit spartan for my tastes. On the other hand it does a great many things better than any other other cathedral or church I have been in.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

Can we trade with the Episcopalians please? They get Notre Dame and **we get a giant washing machine **agitator and a giant wooden closet…

Did you think of this yourself or did you hear it from locals? Here in SF we refer to it as “St. Mary of the Maytag”.

 

[Navarre]

Did you think of this yourself or did you hear it from locals? Here in SF we refer to it as “St. Mary of the Maytag”.

Not all people in FRISCO call it that.

(stupid little heads rolling back and forth here)

 

[WhollyRoamin]

It looks nothing like it.

Oh, I don’t know.

http://www.hawaiicatholicherald.com/Portals/9/2008/2008-02-jan25/night.jpg

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

There are other buildings that I think are similar. Consider the Cathedral in relation to the world headquarters for tax preparer H&R Block… so that way giving to God can feel like giving to Caesar…

http://www.ctlcathedral.org/images/CCL-2149.jpg

http://www.seassociates.com/images/p-block.jpg

I suppose there’s some architectual intregity there… if you like going to church in airport lobbies.

 

[WhollyRoamin]

I didn’t find anything “cartoonish” about Our Lady of the Angels Cathedral in Los Angeles if you are indeed using the slur “Taj Mahony” (no e) to describe her.

Behold thy Mother:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/24/The_Virgin_Mary_by_Robert_Graham.jpg

Yep, that’s the Blessed Virgin Mary. She’s guarding the enterance of the the Taj Mahony.

Along with the rest of Starfleet command.

 

[idrum677]

It is not Catholic churches only, facing the problem of terrible buildings. Here’s an eye opening story of the Third Church of Christ, Scientist in Washington, DC.

They have a church building so ugly and dysfunctional, that the congregation wants to raze it. Unfortunately, the city has granted it “historic” status and won’t let them tear down their own structure. Don’t miss pictures of what I believe is the ugliest church in the world.

Paul

What’s wrong with that.
It kind of reminds me of my college days…
Try spending 4 years looking at that every day.

 

[Navarre]

Behold thy Mother:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/24/The_Virgin_Mary_by_Robert_Graham.jpg

Yep, that’s the Blessed Virgin Mary. She’s guarding the enterance of the the Taj Mahony.

Along with the rest of Starfleet command.

Still, I don’t find anything “cartoonish” about the structure. I’m curious, have you ever attended Mass there? I have never met anyone personally who has used the ugly slur “Taj Mahony” and has actually attended Mass there. Conversely, I have met many people who have never been to OLAC (or who only claim to have been) who were experts on its design and construction.

 

[Navarre]

What’s wrong with that.
It kind of reminds me of my college days…
Try spending 4 years looking at that every day.

Yeah! At first I thought that was my alma mater’s main library!

 

[Lepanto]

What’s wrong with that.
It kind of reminds me of my college days…
Try spending 4 years looking at that every day.

Brings to mind the German bunkers in Normandy.

images.google.com/images?q=normandy%20bunker&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

 

[WhollyRoamin]

Still, I don’t find anything “cartoonish” about the structure. I’m curious, have you ever attended Mass there? I have never met anyone personally who has used the ugly slur “Taj Mahony” and has actually attended Mass there. Conversely, I have met many people who have never been to OLAC (or who only claim to have been) who were experts on its design and construction.

No, and I don’t plan on ever stepping foot in the place. I guess I’m a snob. Catholic churches should look like Catholic churches. This is some absurd experiment in Catholic architecture… it’s too bad that the Archdiocese is going to be stuck with this monstrocity until some act of -]mercy/-] God brings it down with an earthquake.

Then they should build a Catholic cathedral on that site.

It’d be a nice place for a church.

 

[Navarre]

No, and I don’t plan on ever stepping foot in the place. I guess I’m a snob. Catholic churches should look like Catholic churches. This is some absurd experiment in Catholic architecture… it’s too bad that the Archdiocese is going to be stuck with this monstrocity until some act of -]mercy/-] God brings it down with an earthquake.

Then they should build a Catholic cathedral on that site.

It’d be a nice place for a church.

You don’t appear to be a “snob.” You appear to be someone who has formed some very strong judgments based on secondary or tertiary information and that’s unfortunate. Relying on such sources is anathema in my world when the primary source is accessible.

I don’t know if you don’t ever see yourself visiting LA or if you are afraid that that your judgments will not hold-up to a closer and more accurate inspection of the edifice?

What I do know without question is that your comments appear woefully inaccurate and mean-spirited to just about anyone who has actually made the effort to worship at OLAC. I know people who who have actually worshiped at OLAC like myself who aren’t in love with the place, but not a one, not a single one who makes the sort of comments you have here.

The Good Lord provided mightily for the Archdiocese of LA to build OLAC in a very seismic-resistant manner that should last for over 500 years. Don’t hold your breath about it falling down anytime soon.

Regarding the statue of Mother Mary. I’m fairly certain a first century AD Jewess from the Middle East looked a great deal more like the statue you so loathe and a great deal less than the Grace Kelley-like caricatures that so many have been fed over the years.

 

[ASD]

Hey! That’s all hip and cool, and it’ll get all the kids to come to Mass now!

This is some absurd experiment in Catholic architecture

I would love to know what the justifications or reasons or rationales for such a choice are. What were they thinking? What did they have in mind for us and future generations of Catholics? I don’t know, but it’s hard not to see a desperate attempt at novelty.

What I have always found puzzling in these discussions is the feeling by some that our universal Catholic faith somehow depends on, or is uniquely fostered by, an architectural metaphor rooted in 11th Century Western Europe. Surely the universal message of Our Savior is larger and more robust than the proponents of this kind of kind of architectural imperialism ?!?] give it credit for. We’re not all inspired by the same physical forms.

It’s easy to point out that 11th century architecture is culture-bound in many ways. But, I don’t think that’s really the point. I think the point is that some art and architecture creates a space that tells us important things, traditional things, that we need to remember about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Other art and architecture try for something else; not always clear what.

The objection goes way beyond a claim that a particular form doesn’t inspire everyone. I think the objection is that the building doesn’t say the things it needs to say. I know some people will insist that that’s nothing more than a matter of taste; but I don’t think so.

Anyway, I would love to know what those guys had in mind. It’s certainly possible that they’re trying to say something interesting, but I don’t know what it is.

ASD, partially ignorant and frequently polemical.​

Traditional Latin Mass: Translation and Grammar*

 

[ibkc]

You don’t appear to be a “snob.” You appear to be someone who has formed some very strong judgments based on secondary or tertiary information and that’s unfortunate. Relying on such sources is anathema in my world when the primary source is accessible.

I don’t know if you don’t ever see yourself visiting LA or if you are afraid that that your judgments will not hold-up to a closer and more accurate inspection of the edifice?

Some people just do not like that kind of architecture. The person you’re addressing has a right to his opinion, and he also has a right to use humor to describe it. It is not a big deal and it doesn’t need to be personalized in this way. Lighten up.

 

[Navarre]

Some people just do not like that kind of architecture. The person you’re addressing has a right to his opinion, and he also has a right to use humor to describe it. It is not a big deal and it doesn’t need to be personalized in this way. Lighten up.

“Humor?”

…This is some absurd experiment in Catholic architecture… it’s too bad that the Archdiocese is going to be stuck with this monstrocity until some act of -]mercy/-] God brings it down with an earthquake…

 

[benedictgal]

It is as though we have lost a true sense of the sacred. When I see the pictures of these modern structures that have pretty much stripped away the beauty of our Faith, it makes me wonder if perhaps, we have issues with displaying the tenets of what we believe.

Remember that the earliest Christian shrines, the catacombs, were adorned with beautiful and sacred art. The images of Jesus and the early figures of the Church were colorful and incredible.

Even the pagans, such as the Greeks and the Romans, made their temples with the finest materials and had breathtakingly beautiful statuary. The statute of the Athena Parthenos is one such example of beauty, as are the various renditions of Artemis, Zeus and Apollo. While Ancient Israel did not have statuary (as we would know it today), the richness of the tapestry of the Holy of Holies and the intricate detail that God dictated. Remember, too, that the Temple was supposed to be God’s dwelling on earth.

The buildings in California just don’t have that since of the Divine that is so obvious in the others.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

hahaha… Oakland’s new Cathedral looks strangely like the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton Ohio. Check them out, it’s remarkably similar.

Which might be as close as anything in Oakland is ever going to get to the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

HEY! As a Raiders fan, I really … yeah, you’re probably right.:banghead:

“Cartoonish” refers to the fact that, like the buildings in many cartoon shows, everything seems askew. The Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels lacks symmetry, with its imbalanced twin aisles, oddly-sloping floors, and its jungle of light fixtures resembling alien landers. With regard to the statue outside, two words: Mortal Kombat.

Navarre: While I used the “slur” “Taj Mahoney,” which like “St. Mary of the Maytag” is a common local nickname, I feel that the building is merely representative of the vapid liberal theology that seems to be holding sway in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. Whether or not the cardinal is responsible for that, I cannot say, but he is responsible for the construction of that multi-million dollar cathedral.

 

[Navarre]

“Cartoonish” refers to the fact that, like the buildings in many cartoon shows, everything seems askew. The Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels lacks symmetry, with its imbalanced twin aisles, oddly-sloping floors, and its jungle of light fixtures resembling alien landers. With regard to the statue outside, two words: Mortal Kombat.

Not at all.

Have you ever *actually/] been inside? I remember looking at the models and Professor Moneo (the architect) saying there wasn’t a straight line in the building. It cost a great deal of money to do that and I realized why they did it after worshiping there. It doesn’t feel “askew” nor does it look “askew.” It also doesn’t look or feel like a warehouse inside, and it would have if it would have been a big rectangular box. The place is so big it would be impossible to feel or see the “imbalanced twin aisles.” One would have to rely on a photo of a model.

As for the gently sloping floor, all churches should be built that way. It tremendously improves the view one has of the altar. Nothing “odd” about it in the least.

There is also not a “jungle of light fixtures.” It might look that way based on some photos, but they are hardly noticeable in person, particularly now that they are gaining a patina. For the record Moneo did not want as many fixtures by the sublime sound system required them.

Navarre: While I used the “slur” “Taj Mahoney,” which like “St. Mary of the Maytag” is a common local nickname, I feel that the building is merely representative of the vapid liberal theology that seems to be holding sway in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. Whether or not the cardinal is responsible for that, I cannot say, but he is responsible for the construction of that multi-million dollar cathedral.

Not once have I met someone I admired or even really respected use that slur. Not once. Sure I have heard “Taj Mahoney”, “Rog Mahol”, the “Titanium Temple” and other slurs from a great many people, but invariably they were not the sort of person that garners admiration or respect. They seem angry and fairly ignorant for the most part.*

 

[Navarre]

“Cartoonish” refers to the fact that, like the buildings in many cartoon shows, everything seems askew. The Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels lacks symmetry, with its imbalanced twin aisles, oddly-sloping floors, and its jungle of light fixtures resembling alien landers. With regard to the statue outside, two words: Mortal Kombat.

Not at all.

Have you ever *actually/] been inside? I remember looking at the models and Professor Moneo (the architect) saying there wasn’t a straight line in the building. It cost a great deal of money to do that and I realized why they did it after worshiping there. It doesn’t feel “askew” nor does it look “askew.” It also doesn’t look or feel like a warehouse inside, and it would have if it would have been a big rectangular box. The place is so big it would be impossible to feel or see the “imbalanced twin aisles.” One would have to rely on a photo of a model.

As for the gently sloping floor, all churches should be built that way. It tremendously improves the view one has of the altar. Nothing “odd” about it in the least.

There is also not a “jungle of light fixtures.” It might look that way based on some photos, but they are hardly noticeable in person, particularly now that they are gaining a patina. For the record Moneo did not want as many fixtures by the sublime sound system required them.

Navarre: While I used the “slur” “Taj Mahoney,” which like “St. Mary of the Maytag” is a common local nickname, I feel that the building is merely representative of the vapid liberal theology that seems to be holding sway in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. Whether or not the cardinal is responsible for that, I cannot say, but he is responsible for the construction of that multi-million dollar cathedral.

Not once have I met someone I admired or even really respected use that slur. Not once. Sure I have heard “Taj Mahoney”, “Rog Mahol”, the “Titanium Temple” and other slurs from a great many people, but invariably they were not the sort of person that garners admiration or respect. They seem angry and fairly ignorant for the most part. They have also invariably never been to the Cathedral.*

 

[Navarre]

“Cartoonish” refers to the fact that, like the buildings in many cartoon shows, everything seems askew. The Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels lacks symmetry, with its imbalanced twin aisles, oddly-sloping floors, and its jungle of light fixtures resembling alien landers. With regard to the statue outside, two words: Mortal Kombat.

Not at all.

Have you ever actually been inside? I remember looking at the models and Professor Moneo (the architect) saying there wasn’t a straight line in the building. It cost a great deal of money to do that and I realized why they did it after worshiping there. It doesn’t feel “askew” nor does it look “askew.” It also doesn’t look or feel like a warehouse inside, and it would have if it would have been a big rectangular box. The place is so big it would be impossible to feel or see the “imbalanced twin aisles.” One would have to rely on a photo of a model.

As for the gently sloping floor, all churches should be built that way. It tremendously improves the view one has of the altar. Nothing “odd” about it in the least.

There is also not a “jungle of light fixtures.” It might look that way based on some photos, but they are hardly noticeable in person, particularly now that they are gaining a patina. For the record Moneo did not want as many fixtures by the sublime sound system required them.

Navarre: While I used the “slur” “Taj Mahoney,” which like “St. Mary of the Maytag” is a common local nickname, I feel that the building is merely representative of the vapid liberal theology that seems to be holding sway in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. Whether or not the cardinal is responsible for that, I cannot say, but he is responsible for the construction of that multi-million dollar cathedral.

Not once have I met someone I admired or even really respected use that slur. Not once. Sure I have heard “Taj Mahoney”, “Rog Mahol”, the “Titanium Temple” and other slurs from a great many people, but invariably they were not the sort of person that garners admiration or respect. They seem angry and fairly ignorant for the most part. They have also invariably never been to the Cathedral.

As far as the liturgy, every Mass that I have been to there (maybe a dozen?) has been excellent and very orthodox. Some of the best homilies I have ever heard anywhere. That fact would be lost on those relying on old video of twirling nuns on youtube to form their opinions.

 

[WhollyRoamin]

Navarre, you can say that again.

And again.