Sanctifying grace?

[panevino]

Is sanctifying grace recieved by an unbaptised person when he/she believes?

then also recieves sanctifying grace at baptism and other sacraments.

I am just learning so correct me one whatever I have wrong.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Is sanctifying grace recieved by an unbaptised person when he/she believes?

then also recieves sanctifying grace at baptism and other sacraments.

I am just learning so correct me one whatever I have wrong.

An unbaptized person only receives Actual Grace drawing them towards God and Baptism.

A Baptized person also can receive Actual Grace which keeps them turned towards God from sacramentals (prayers, blessings, etc.)

An unbaptized person receives Sanctifying Grace at Baptism which places them in perfect union with God, as well as **Sacramental Grace **when they receive any Sacrament.

 

[panevino]

An unbaptized person only receives Actual Grace drawing them towards God and Baptism.

A Baptized person also can receive Actual Grace which keeps them turned towards God from sacramentals (prayers, blessings, etc.)

An unbaptized person receives Sanctifying Grace at Baptism which places them in perfect union with God, as well as **Sacramental Grace **when they receive any Sacrament.

thanks,

I understood that Actual grace prompted the unbaptised person to belief/baptism,
and that baptism brought sanctifying grace.

However, is santifying grace received, once this person, prompted by actual grace responds with faith
(ie says a prayer and goes to church) prior to actually being baptised?

Is santifying grace only recieved withinn the sacraments? Or Can it be outside sacraments but only after being baptised?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

thanks,

I understood that Actual grace prompted the unbaptised person to belief/baptism,
and that baptism brought sanctifying grace.

However, is santifying grace received, once this person, prompted by actual grace responds with faith
(ie says a prayer and goes to church) prior to actually being baptised?

Is santifying grace only recieved withinn the sacraments? Or Can it be outside sacraments but only after being baptised?

Sanctifying can be given by God anywhere at any time, God can work outside the Sacraments, when a person is unable to receive a Sacrament. However the normal way to receive Sanctifying Grace for the first time is in Baptism. For instance Baptism of Desire is when an adult expresses their desire to receive Baptism either by words or actions but dies before being able to receive Baptism through no fault of their own. It is thought that God supplies the Grace of Baptism (Sanctifying Grace) without the Sacrament, or the Mark of Sacramental Baptism on the persons soul.

 

[Bookcat]

An unbaptized person only receives Actual Grace drawing them towards God and Baptism.

A Baptized person also can receive Actual Grace which keeps them turned towards God from sacramentals (prayers, blessings, etc.)

An unbaptized person receives Sanctifying Grace at Baptism which places them in perfect union with God, as well as **Sacramental Grace **when they receive any Sacrament.

Not the case…

An unbaptized person CAN receive Sanctifying Grace prior to baptism…

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Not the case…

An unbaptized person CAN receive Sanctifying Grace prior to baptism…

Explain “Not the case” in light of my two posts?

 

[panevino]

So , an unbaptised person is justified at belief (when prompted by the free unmerited gift of actual grace)
however this person is still not in perfect union/sanctified given original sin until baptised at which point they recieve sanctifying grace(supernatural life).

Following this we continue to strive to remain justified and sanctified
by holding a faith that is alive by continuing to respond to " actual " grace by participating in sacramentals (ie prayers , faithfull acts etc) and participating in the sacraments of Eucharist and reconcilliation which all provide/strengthen sanctifying grace .

This ongoing reciept of sanctifying grace strengthens us against falling

What have I got wrong - I’m sure it’s alot.

 

[brb3]

Not the case…

An unbaptized person CAN receive Sanctifying Grace prior to baptism…

Are you thinking of Apostle Paul ? When he received H.S. just before his Baptism occurred … when Hands were Layed on Him and he was CONFIRMED by CHRIST ?

We need to keep in mind that Paul may well have already had the desire to be Baptized, at the time Hands were layed on him. A Baptism of Desire, which was in fact accomplished in very short order.

Give us other scenarios … if any are taught in scripture.

 

[Ron_Conte]

An unbaptized person CAN receive Sanctifying Grace prior to baptism…

The above quoted claim is serious doctrinal error.

Sanctifying grace is conferred by baptism, either a formal baptism (water and words; the ceremony of baptism) or a non-formal baptism of desire. All fallen human persons who have sanctifying grace have been baptized (as least non-formally). All fallen human persons who are unbaptized lack sanctifying grace.

If sanctifying grace is subsequently lost by actual mortal sin, then contrition and Confession, or perfect contrition and at least the desire for Confession, returns the person to a state of sanctifying grace.

 

[Ron_Conte]

So , an unbaptised person is justified at belief (when prompted by the free unmerited gift of actual grace)
however this person is still not in perfect union/sanctified given original sin until baptised at which point they recieve sanctifying grace(supernatural life).

No one is justified except those who have sanctifying grace. So the cooperation with actual grace may lead an adult to be baptized, thereby receiving sanctifying grace for the first time, which is also called justifying grace.

Following this we continue to strive to remain justified and sanctified
by holding a faith that is alive by continuing to respond to " actual " grace by participating in sacramentals (ie prayers , faithfull acts etc) and participating in the sacraments of Eucharist and reconcilliation which all provide/strengthen sanctifying grace .

This ongoing reciept of sanctifying grace strengthens us against falling

Correct, except that it is the continued (intermittant) cooperation with actual grace that helps us stay in a state of sanctifying grace. Sanctifying grace is a state, whereby the soul is ordered toward the love of God above all else, and

 

[panevino]

No one is justified except those who have sanctifying grace. So the cooperation with actual grace may lead an adult to be baptized, thereby receiving sanctifying grace for the first time, which is also called justifying grace.

Correct, except that it is the continued (intermittant) cooperation with actual grace that helps us stay in a state of sanctifying grace. Sanctifying grace is a state, whereby the soul is ordered toward the love of God above all else, and

Ok take 3
So , an unbaptised person can accept faith following a prompt of the free unearned gift of “actual” grace. However is not yet justified.

this person is still not in perfect union/sanctified given original sin until baptised at which point they recieve sanctifying grace(supernatural life) and are also justified.

Following this we continue to strive to remain justified and sanctified
by holding a faith that is alive by continuing to cooperate with " actual " grace by participating in sacramentals (ie prayers , faithfull acts etc) and participating in the sacraments of Eucharist and reconcilliation which all provide/strengthen sanctifying grace .

This ongoing cooperation with actual grace helps us remain in a state of sanctifying grace and strengthens us against falling

have I missed something?

is there a title description (ie : eligible?) for the unbaptised person who acepts faith/believes in response to actual grace?

 

[Ron_Conte]

So , an unbaptised person can accept faith following a prompt of the free unearned gift of “actual” grace. However is not yet justified.

No, he does not have love or faith or hope, as theological virtues.

Only those persons in a state of sanctifying grace have love, faith, and hope – the three theological virtues. These virtues are solely obtained by infusion from the Holy Spirit. An unbaptized person cannot have any of these three virtues: love (a true spiritual love, not merely human love), a living faith (not merely the adherence to intellectual propositions), and hope (not merely human hope).

However, an unbaptized person can cooperate partially with actual grace, in particular holy acts, including acts of with some limited degree of love, of faith (such as belief in particular teachings) and of hope. But these are particular intermittent acts of only partial cooperation with grace. He does not have the three theological virtues, found only in the state of grace.

this person is still not in perfect union/sanctified given original sin until baptised at which point they recieve sanctifying grace(supernatural life) and are also justified.

A person in a state of grace does not have perfect union with God; this union is given only in the Beatific Vision.

Following this we continue to strive to remain justified and sanctified
by holding a faith that is alive by continuing to cooperate with " actual " grace by participating in sacramentals (ie prayers , faithfull acts etc) and participating in the sacraments of Eucharist and reconcilliation which all provide/strengthen sanctifying grace.

This ongoing cooperation with actual grace helps us remain in a state of sanctifying grace and strengthens us against falling

have I missed something?

That is all correct except that only Baptism provides sanctifying grace, and only Confession (or perfect contrition with the desire for Confession) and sometimes Last Rites, can return the soul to a state of sanctifying grace.

is there a title description (ie : eligible?) for the unbaptised person who acepts faith/believes in response to actual grace?

He does not accept or have faith until he has received sanctifying grace.

 

[Ron_Conte]

Baptism can be received by either a formal Baptism (the ceremony with water and words) or by a non-formal Baptism (i.e. of desire).

A Baptism of desire can be either explicit or implicit. An explicit Baptism of desire occurs when a person desires to be baptized, but is unable to obtain baptism. Often the situation is that the person dies before obtaining Baptism.

An implicit Baptism of desire occurs when an unbaptized person knowingly chooses an act of true selfless spiritual love in full cooperation with grace.

Pope Pius XII: “Above all, the state of grace is absolutely necessary at the moment of death without it salvation and supernatural happiness – the beatific vision of God – are impossible. An act of love is sufficient for the adult to obtain sanctifying grace and to supply the lack of baptism….”
Pope Pius XII, Address to Midwives, 29 October 1951.

See also my article, Treatise on Mystical Baptism.
catholicplanet.com/RCC/mystical-baptism.htm

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Baptism can be received by either a formal Baptism (the ceremony with water and words) or by a non-formal Baptism (i.e. of desire).

A Baptism of desire can be either explicit or implicit. An explicit Baptism of desire occurs when a person desires to be baptized, but is unable to obtain baptism. Often the situation is that the person dies before obtaining Baptism.

An implicit Baptism of desire occurs when an unbaptized person knowingly chooses an act of true selfless spiritual love in full cooperation with grace.

Pope Pius XII: “Above all, the state of grace is absolutely necessary at the moment of death without it salvation and supernatural happiness – the beatific vision of God – are impossible. An act of love is sufficient for the adult to obtain sanctifying grace and to supply the lack of baptism….”
Pope Pius XII, Address to Midwives, 29 October 1951.

See also my article, Treatise on Mystical Baptism.
catholicplanet.com/RCC/mystical-baptism.htm

“Baptism can be received by either a formal Baptism (the ceremony with water and words) or by a non-formal Baptism (i.e. of desire).”

This is a bit misleading because “formal Baptism” and “non-formal Baptism” are not equivalent to each other.

Both supply the Grace of Baptism = Sanctifying Grace, but not Sacramental Grace which requires the reception of a Sacrament, and does not supply the Mark of Sacramental Baptism on the soul.

 

[panevino]

No, he does not have love or faith or hope, as theological virtues.

Only those persons in a state of sanctifying grace have love, faith, and hope – the three theological virtues. These virtues are solely obtained by infusion from the Holy Spirit. An unbaptized person cannot have any of these three virtues: love (a true spiritual love, not merely human love), a living faith (not merely the adherence to intellectual propositions), and hope (not merely human hope).

However, an unbaptized person can cooperate partially with actual grace, in particular holy acts, including acts of with some limited degree of love, of faith (such as belief in particular teachings) and of hope. But these are particular intermittent acts of only partial cooperation with grace. He does not have the three theological virtues, found only in the state of grace.

A person in a state of grace does not have perfect union with God; this union is given only in the Beatific Vision.

That is all correct except that only Baptism provides sanctifying grace, and only Confession (or perfect contrition with the desire for Confession) and sometimes Last Rites, can return the soul to a state of sanctifying grace.

He does not accept or have faith until he has received sanctifying grace.

if you dont mind i’d like to keep going with this and try to refine my understanding further.
i have wanted to understand this properly for some time now, and its great to have someone to interact with.

take 4.

So , an unbaptised person can “believe” that “jesus died for us etc.” via a partial cooperation with the free unearned gift of “actual” grace. However is not yet justified.

this person is still not sanctified given original sin until they are baptised at which point they enter a state of sanctifying grace(supernatural life) and are also justified.

Following this we continue to strive to remain justified and sanctified
by holding a faith that is alive by continuing to cooperate with " actual " grace by participating in the sacraments of Eucharist and reconcilliation/confession

This ongoing cooperation with actual grace helps us remain in a state of sanctifying grace and strengthens us against falling

 

[Ron_Conte]

So , an unbaptised person can “believe” that “jesus died for us etc.” via a partial cooperation with the free unearned gift of “actual” grace. However is not yet justified.

this person is still not sanctified given original sin until they are baptised at which point they enter a state of sanctifying grace(supernatural life) and are also justified.

Following this we continue to strive to remain justified and sanctified
by holding a faith that is alive by continuing to cooperate with " actual " grace by participating in the sacraments of Eucharist and reconcilliation/confession

This ongoing cooperation with actual grace helps us remain in a state of sanctifying grace and strengthens us against falling

Yes, I agree with all of the above.

 

[Ron_Conte]

Both supply the Grace of Baptism = Sanctifying Grace, but not Sacramental Grace which requires the reception of a Sacrament, and does not supply the Mark of Sacramental Baptism on the soul.

You are summarizing St. Thomas’ position in the Summa.
But I don’t think that the Magisterium has taught either assertion.
So those two points are are both open questions.

In my opinion, the three forms of Baptism:

1. water (formal Sacrament)
2. blood
3. desire
   are in every effect equivalent.

Otherwise, the members of the Church would be distinguished from one another in this most fundamental requirement of membership. But Baptism makes us adoptive children of God and co-heirs with Christ. As children of God, we are equal. And as heirs we are even co-heirs with Christ, and therefore certainly equal with one another. Therefore, there cannot be any distinction between the effects of the three types of Baptsim, in my opinion.