Sanctity

[Julie_de_Sales]

Has someone thought about how advanced they are on the path towards God? On one side, we should consider us as sinful people and the saints would always view themselves like the worst sinners in the world, but on the other side I have read some books that present the different stages of the spiritual life and what you have to do in order to be considered as advanced or almost perfect in this matter. It sounds a little bit strange to me because it’s like passing a test at school which will reflect your progress, but I don’t know if this can be easily applied to the spiritual life.
Another idea is that I really want to become a saint (even if I am currently down below) and if I would see myself 50 years later at the same stage, I would be very worried. Are some of you preoccupied about how holy you are or are you just trying your best and leaving this judgement in God’s hands? Perhaps it is also a pride thing, like trying to become a saint for your own glory and not for the Lord.
Any opinions?

 

[Dorothy]

There are a lot of good spiritual books that discuss that topic. Others can give suggestions about that.

I would like to suggest this site where MP3’s are available on various topics that have to do with growing in the spiritual life.

advancedchristianity.com

Father Venard Poslusney was a Carmelite priest whose strong point was spiritual direction. The site will tell you how he used his gift, and you may want to sample some of the topics. Not all the cassette tapes he made are available, but there is a very good collection of them.

 

[JRKH]

Julie,
You are asking some wonderful questions and well worth pondering on.

If I may - what we are to be perfected in is love and strange as it might seem, true love contains within it a peculiar combination of joy, happiness and completeness while also containing feelings of inadequacy, a desire to do more and to be more for the one that you love.
It’s like, one is so fulfilled by this love and at the same time is at a loss to express it fully or to feel that one can ever be truly worthy…
The spiritual journey is very much like this. The further one moves along, the more fulfilled one becomes - and yet, because it is Love, true and deepening Love, we desire to do more, to be more and we see ourselves as unworthy…simply because we feel that we can never do enough for the one that we love. I think that this is very much what the great saints try to convey in their writings but as, I say, it is almost impossible to put into words.

Now to answer you last question of am I preoccupied with how holy I am. The answer is no…or at least I try not to be…If I start thinking about my being “holy” I run the risk of getting caught in various webs of self centered-ness. This is spiritually unhealthy. Therefore, rather than think about “am I holy” I think about “am I loving to others” and this turns the focus away from me which is where it should be in a loving relationship.

Not sure if I’ve explained this well…

Peace
James

P.S. Note the book in my signature…It’s a great resource

Peace
James

 

[Polycarp1]

You can’t become holy without humility. That would seem to me to mean that a person achieving true holiness would never realize it as more and more imperfections would become evident to him or her as they progressed and the Holy Spirit revealed more truth to them about themselves. No wonder the saints thought they were the worst sinners in the world!

The trouble with humility is that once you think you’ve got it…you don’t!

 

[JRKH]

You can’t become holy without humility. That would seem to me to mean that a person achieving true holiness would never realize it as more and more imperfections would become evident to him or her as they progressed and the Holy Spirit revealed more truth to them about themselves. No wonder the saints thought they were the worst sinners in the world!

The trouble with humility is that once you think you’ve got it…you don’t!

This is indeed very true…But let’s not lose sight of the fact that if the Holy Spirit is revealing Truth to us…that truth will involve the good as well as the bad.
No father as loving as our heavenly Father would constantly reveal on our defects without also giving consolation and praise for what we have done right and how well we are doing.
So - there must be a balance in one’s spiritual life in order to avoid either presumption or despair.

Peace
James

 

[Charlemagne_II]

We know that we are called to be much better than we are. Striving to be good with all humility is the key. Too many are proud of their goodness and presumptuous of their superiority, and are inclined to be judgmental of others. We should love ourselves because God loves us. We should love others because God also loves them. We should love God because God is Love.

 

[SentinelofTruth]

Julies de Sales:

Has someone thought about how advanced they are on the path towards God?
I have
On one side, we should consider us as sinful people and the saints would always view themselves like the worst sinners in the world, but on the other side I have read some books that present the different stages of the spiritual life and what you have to do in order to be considered as advanced or almost perfect in this matter. It sounds a little bit strange to me because it’s like passing a test at school which will reflect your progress, but I don’t know if this can be easily applied to the spiritual life.
I don’t think it can be either.
Another idea is that I really want to become a saint (even if I am currently down below) and if I would see myself 50 years later at the same stage, I would be very worried.
One thing to keep in mind is that your holiness is determined entirely by you alone. You can just “choose” to become a saint. Technically, this is the easiest thing in the world since no one but you can possibly stop you. Nevertheless, I can’t blame you for not simply choosing sainthood, because we all have chosen not to be saints.
Are some of you preoccupied about how holy you are or are you just trying your best and leaving this judgement in God’s hands? Perhaps it is also a pride thing, like trying to become a saint for your own glory and not for the Lord.
** I don’t think can** be a pride thing, because if you just want it for your own glory then you don’t really want it. Sainthood is by definition altruistic.
Any opinions?

 

[Qoeleth]

Becoming a Saint is the one ambition a Christian should pursue (in the sense of being holy, not being canonized, of course!)

Being in an ‘advanced’ spiritual state does not necessarily make one more of a saint. Any share in infinite happiness is infinite.

 

[SentinelofTruth]

Qoeleth:

Being in an ‘advanced’ spiritual state does not necessarily make one more of a saint. Any share in infinite happiness is infinite.

What do you mean by “advanced spiritual state”?

 

[Qoeleth]

What do you mean by “advanced spiritual state”?

Well, it varies from one writer to another, what are the characteristics of each stage. I will give Bonaventure’s stages in “De Triplici Via” (although he gives many schemata at different points):

1. Sauvitas (Deriving pleasure/warmth, etc. out of devotion)
2. Aviditas (Fervent desire for experience of God)
3. Saturitas (When you feel contempt and tedium with all temporal things)
4. Ebrietas (Desire for humilation, suffering)
5. Securitas (When you feel securely and inseparably joined with God)
6. Tranquillitas (When death or life, joy or sorrow, are viewed with perfect indifference)

My point is that a person in the first one or two stages (say, a fervent novice) is just as likely (in my opinion) to be a saint as a person in the later stages (say, on old monk). In whatever type of stage of spiritual life a person is in, they can still, equally, be ‘good’ or ‘bad’.