'Sanctuary city for unborn' ordinances take off in Texas despite pro-choice pushback." A report

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I don’t know how many pro-lifers are unaware of the risk of pregnancy.

With good prenatal care, these risks can be addressed and taken care off.

Unfortunately, good medical care and included in that good prenatal care, is out of reach for the working poor. It would go a long way for us as a nation to help make medical care attainable for Americans who make too much for Medicaid but don’t have the means to afford health insurance premiums.

No, I am neither advocating for or against governmental healthcare but what we have right now with stratospheric medical and drug costs is not good enough. Not if those who call themselves pro-life really care about women and babies.

For those pro-lifers who care for unborn babies yet support the status quo which makes it difficult for women and babies to get healthcare, well they’re pro-birthers not pro-lifers.
 
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Hume said:
If a lady doesn’t want to assume that kind of risk, who are you to force her?
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Interesting that forcing certain death on another is a fine and dandy means of reducing mum’s near-zero risk of death to zero.
 
For many, a fetus is only a “someone” if mom wants it to be.

Adults have rights children don’t have.
Children have rights that fetuses don’t have.
 
Rau said:
Yes, That’s one way of justifying killing.
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It’s also a way of defending a woman’s right to govern her own person.
If she doesn’t want to lend use of her internal organs to a temporary visitor, she shouldn’t have to.
Rau said:
By rights, you refer to rights given by the law of the land. We can all read.
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Sure. By the law of the land a fetus is not a person in the same way it’s mother is.
If you’d like to use religious reasoning to argue that as being in disparity with reality, please don’t hesitate!

But your religious reasoning should apply only to those who voluntarily submit to it. If you want to make abortion illegal for all Catholic women, go for it.

Come to think, I’m certain your church has already done that, right?
 
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Hume said:
By the law of the land a fetus is not a person in the same way it’s mother is.
If you’d like to use religious reasoning to argue that as being in disparity with reality, please don’t hesitate!
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An infant is not a person in the same way a man is either - so you’ve made a nothing statement there. But overlooking that Faux pas, I’d just note that biology is sufficient to recognise human beings. I’m of the view religions can’t add much to this observation.
 
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Sarcelle said:
I don’t know how many pro-lifers are unaware of the risk of pregnancy.

With good prenatal care, these risks can be addressed and taken care off.
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Some people die at the dentist’s or during otherwise totally routine and low-risk medical procedures.

Some people die in the supermarket even.

It is an undeniable fact of life than none of us have 100% certainty that we will live to see tomorrow.

But only a very twisted mind would draw the conclusion that this is an acceptable excuse for murder.
 
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Rau said:
I’d just note that biology is sufficient to recognise human beings.
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Biology has no say on the conveyance of rights and when, exactly, they are conveyed.

From where I sit, a fetus is a genetically varied extension of its mother until it is born. As either part of her body or unambiguously dependent on her body, she can do with it as she wishes as her control over her body is not a point of debate.
 
Cirdan_XII said:
Some people die at the dentist’s or during otherwise totally routine and low-risk medical procedures.

Some people die in the supermarket even.
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And we recognize the rights of those people to not go to the dentist or supermarket.

No one’s forcing them to. Welcome to the pro-choice perspective.
 
Rau said:
They could do both perhaps?
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I think that is why the poster said, “concentrated more.” The abortion debate is steeped in ignorance, on both sides, as too often no one listens. The action of this man, and any city that follows him will not accomplish anything other than waste money, though, as no state, much less a municipality can overruled the Supreme Court.
 
Hume said:
And we recognize the rights of those people to not go to the dentist or supermarket.

No one’s forcing them to. Welcome to the pro-choice perspective.
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What an absurd thing to say.

Do babies chose to be murdered?

Or is being allowed to murder other people without their consent also pro-choice?
 
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It sounds like you are arguing for the folks who choose not to wear masks, ironically.
 
A fetus is not meaningfully a person apart from its mother. If she wants it out of her body, she has the right to take the steps needed to accomplish that.
 
Dr_Meinheimer said:
It sounds like you are arguing for the folks who choose not to wear masks, ironically.
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They endanger people by not wearing their mask.

A fetus isn’t meaningfully a person apart from its mother until it is born.
 
The problem with this it becomes relative. You and I probably abhor rape, but not everyone does. So who is correct? Laws that address this need to transcend a simple religious reason, and the right to exist is not just couched as something Catholic believe.
 
Nonsense, and as a father, you know it is. They “might” enadanger others by not wearing a mask. A mother who kills her child always endangers them, 100% of the time.

If we are going to argue masks should be worn so we don’t endanger others, logically, we can’t argue for a woman’s bodily autonomy, because as you know, a full term human can and often is be delivered well before 9-month in utero.

And using adjectives like “meaningful” is silly. What the hell does that even mean? Meaningful? Talk about a subjective standard.

We could have avoided a whole lot or racial unrest when Floyd was shot if we just told folks “hey relax, he wasn’t meaningful.”
 
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Dr_Meinheimer said:
The problem with this it becomes relative.
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Law is relative.

Christian God - “You can eat pork.”
Muslim God - “You can’t eat pork.”

No rain in 1300s Central America - “Well, time to sacrifice another temple virgin…”
No rain in 2020 America - “Man. I hope it rains soon…”
Dr_Meinheimer said:
Nonsense, and as a father, you know it is. They “might” enadanger others by not wearing a mask. A mother who kills her child always endangers them, 100% of the time.
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A fetus isn’t a child like a child isn’t an adult.
Dr_Meinheimer said:
a full term human can and often is be delivered well before 9-month in utero.
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The earliest pre-term to survive was just shy of 22 weeks. At 23 weeks, survival is a jump ball with intense medical intervention.

Birth before 36 weeks gestation requires a ventilator for the baby as its lungs haven’t fully developed.

So no, they can’t be born “well before” term, whatever your point was there.
 
Dr_Meinheimer said:
And using adjectives like “meaningful” is silly. What the hell does that even mean? Meaningful? Talk about a subjective standard.
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That’s reality.

For pro-lifers “The life of the fetus outweighs moms bodily concerns”.
For pro-choicers “The bodily concerns of the mom outweigh the life of the fetus”.
 
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Hume said:
A fetus is not meaningfully a person apart from its mother. If she wants it out of her body, she has the right to take the steps needed to accomplish that.
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This is an assertation. Not a truth.
 
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