Santa Claus is blasphemous

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I have a question. I’m not trying to cause a problem- I am honestly curious about this (and I haven’t read every post, so forgive me if this has been brought up): Has the Church ever published anything against the belief of Santa Claus?
No, and this point has been brought up many times so that those reading can know when opinion is being presented as fact. Yet if you read through here or do a Google search, or search Church archives, you will find squat that gives a Church position on the topic. That is why, in areas the Church is silent, no Catholic has any business trying to push his conscientious opinion on another, any more than one who is anti-smoking, or anti-gambling, a teetotaler, or doesn’t believe in dancing, has that right.
 
However, no Catholic should usurp the teaching authority of the Church and presume to preach doctrine and application where the Church has not.
That’s precisely correct. No Catholic should usurp the teaching authority of the church, well said.

Yet this is precisely what Ms. Arnould did when she decline to address the Catechism’s definition of lying, and instead devised her own definition of lying that provides for an exception for “myth-making” lies.

According to the Catechism, a lie is any falsehood told with intent to deceive. There is no exception for myth-making. This is not my opinion, it is directly from the Catechism.
 
That is why, in areas the Church is silent, no Catholic has any business trying to push his conscientious opinion on another, any more than one who is anti-smoking, or anti-gambling, a teetotaler, or doesn’t believe in dancing, has that right.
The Church does have teachings with respect to smoking, drinking, and gambling.
CCC 2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine.
CCC 2413 Games of chance (card games, etc.) or wagers are not in themselves contrary to justice. They become morally unacceptable when they deprive someone of what is necessary to provide for his needs and those of others. the passion for gambling risks becoming an enslavement. Unfair wagers and cheating at games constitute grave matter, unless the damage inflicted is so slight that the one who suffers it cannot reasonably consider it significant.
So far as I know, dancing is perfectly acceptable.
 
You make some interesting points, stanczyk. It’s frustrating to see so many fellow Catholics resort to worldy defenses of worldly practices (travel over to the “Popular Media” for further evidence). We all fall short, of course, but our aim should be to rise above the trappings of this life.
 
We’re now on the third day of Christmas, I believe, and Santa Claus seems to be leaving the stores. It’s a sad sight to see, really. The economy would boom: had we 365 gifts to give across these Twelve Days of Christmas. Admittedly, I failed to plan for it. Where’s Santa when you need him. Perhaps the great, sorrowful, Santa Claus Deception lies in the loss, we all bear, that the tree stands above a bare floor. The Nativity is full. The Wise Men arrived. The lights remain aglow on the front porch. Longer days return in the morning. Do we fast, and abstain? A time of sacrifice, did we give it all on one day, alone?

youtube.com/watch?v=CRW2poUfJ34
 
My definition of lying is taken directly from the Catechism.
Yes, but you are very selective about it and that itself is dishonest.

The catechism also says at 2484
The gravity of a lie is measured against the nature of the truth it deforms, the circumstances, the intentions of the one who lies, and the harm suffered by its victims.
So, tell, us, how is mythologising St. Nicholas causing harm to its victims? As a matter of fact, please define who the victims are.

The Catechism also says at 2500 -
But truth can also find other complementary forms of human expression,
At 2501 the catechism speaks of art -
Indeed, art is a distinctively human form of expression; … give form to the truth of reality in a language accessible to sight or hearing.
Art, as you should understand it, takes many forms. My Christmas tree is a form of art and the stories of Santa Claus involve artistic licence which bring better to the ears of small children the idea of Christ and His mission in a “language accessible to sight and hearing” of very small children. No one has seen God, yet he is painted. No-one knows much about St. Nicholas, so he is mythologised. It is artistic licence and done for the greater good and done in spheres of human activity other than Christmas and Santa…

You have no argument.
 
Yes, but you are very selective about it and that itself is dishonest.
I am well aware that of the different gravity of lies based on circumstances, and it does not alter the validity of my argument. This does not change the fact that a lie is a lie.

I get the feeling that you did not read the thread, but jumped into it somewhere in the mdidle, without understanding my position. You should really read the whole thread.
 
I understand that this is a complex subject, so perhaps you don’t understand the subtle nuances at play.

Jesus never had an intent to deceive when he told His parables, hence they were not lies. Jesus’ parables were merely fiction. It is not a lie to tell a story, without the intent to deceive the believer into thinking the story is literally true.
Parents, at least not mine and I am sure not most, don’t intend to deceive their children. They are simply telling a fictional myth that exists within our culture. Is telling children of Santa Claus as a literal figure leading them to sin? No. Is telling children of Santa Claus as a literal figure an attempt to deceive them? No

From the Catechism : "2483 Lying is the most direct offense against the truth. To lie is to speak or act against the truth in order to lead someone into error. By injuring man’s relation to truth and to his neighbor, a lie offends against the fundamental relation of man and of his word to the Lord.

2484 The gravity of a lie is measured against the nature of the truth it deforms, the circumstances, the intentions of the one who lies, and the harm suffered by its victims. If a lie in itself only constitutes a venial sin, it becomes mortal when it does grave injury to the virtues of justice and charity.

2485 By its very nature, lying is to be condemned. It is a profanation of speech, whereas the purpose of speech is to communicate known truth to others. The deliberate intention of leading a neighbor into error by saying things contrary to the truth constitutes a failure in justice and charity. The culpability is greater when the intention of deceiving entails the risk of deadly consequences for those who are led astray."

Is the parent’s intent to lead the children astray. Read the Catechism on lying. It isn’t defined as literally as it is in your mind. For example, pretend I am your wife if you are male or your friend if you are female. I say “do you like the new 100 dollar jeans I just bought?” You actually hate them and can’t believe I would spend such money on something so materialistic, but you see that I truly adore these jeans. Do you say, you hate them?
If you draw from what I have been saying that I think St. Augustine is a hypocrite then you completely misunderstand me. St. Augustine and I are in complete agreement. Moreover, your point about Adam and Eve does not make any sense.
Well, Saint Augustine taught people. I am sure at some point he also taught children, as he was pretty good about teaching everyone. So if he were to tell the child of Adam and Eve as if Adam and Eve really betrayed God in the way it is presented in the Bible, would he be lying? If so, then it would be hypocritical of him to say that lying in all circumstances is wrong.
I think you need to watch out so as not to let your emotions overtake you. Calm down a bit. Relax. Realize that it is important to apply logic and rationality to analyze even cherished traditions, because even in these cherished traditions can be insidious problems, like the lies and deceptions associated Santa Claus.
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
I am not emotional at all. Seriously, I am really sorry if you thought I was somehow upset by this.

THe story of Adam and Eve should not be taken literally. But every time I tell the story or a child asks, I tell the story as if it is entirely true and historically accurate, even though I do not believe it is historically accurate. That would be lying if lying were taken in the way you seem to think it should. It is not lying, however, because the intent is not to deceive. It is simply telling a myth as factually and historically true.
 
So, tell, us, how is mythologising St. Nicholas causing harm to its victims? As a matter of fact, please define who the victims are.
All lies create victims. The victims are the people being lied to. Young children who cannot make a distinction between matters of faith and matter of white lies being told them by adults. Children who are as apt to believe in flying reindeer as they are the resurrection.

But this has also been discussed earlier in the thread, before you jumped in. Please read the thread, so that you can have a better understanding of what has occurred already.
 
You make some interesting points, stanczyk. It’s frustrating to see so many fellow Catholics resort to worldy defenses of worldly practices (travel over to the “Popular Media” for further evidence). We all fall short, of course, but our aim should be to rise above the trappings of this life.
Thank you WinterLight. That is kind of you to say. I am also saddened by some of the reactions I see from Catholics who prefer to indulge in materialism and worldliness.

This is particularly well said:
“We all fall short, of course, but our aim should be to rise above the trappings of this life”
 
You make some interesting points, stanczyk. It’s frustrating to see so many fellow Catholics resort to worldy defenses of worldly practices (travel over to the “Popular Media” for further evidence).
Rather than insult, can you give an example of “wordly defenses”?
 
are you all seriously missing the point that Christmas is a time to bring us together to rejoice that our Saviour has come?! stop arguing about Santa Claus (an actual saint, Saint Nicolas), and start rejoicing, for Emmanuel’s birth is being celebrated about the world, and certainly if there are things to complain about, it isn’t Santa! Just on Christmas Eve, churches celebrating in Nigeria were bombed, in Iraq fewer Christians are going to church because their lives are in danger, and yet they still care to celebrate the true meaning of Christmas, Santa Claus or no Santa Claus! Now is a time to rejoice Christ’s coming, not argue about whether Old Saint Nick is blasphemous or not! (which I will assure you he is not! it is just that now in our materialistic society, the true meaning of Christmas is being clouded by the media’s fat old man slipping down the chimney so that children AND adults rejoice more about the gifts they receive than the greatest gift of them all, Christ’s love of all, our Salvation through His Love!!!) Shalom everybody! And Merry Christmas!
 
All lies create victims. The victims are the people being lied to. Young children who cannot make a distinction between matters of faith and matter of white lies being told them by adults. Children who are as apt to believe in flying reindeer as they are the resurrection.
If you’d taken an honest approach to this topic from the very beginning, you wouldn’t now have yourself in such a tangle that you can’t distinguish between ‘myth’ and ‘lie’. Every nation and culture has its cultural myths. It’s a way humans create meaning and transfer information about their cultures from one person to another. It is symbolism and symbols are the single most important methods of human communication. If we adopted your puritanical and culturally barren method of “truth telling”, no-one would know anything and we’d have no cultural traditions.

If you’d been intellectually honest, you’d admit that you jumped the gun by responding to the OP and coming into this thread at post #168 without having placed all the arguments into a proper context. The thread was actually, for the main part, quite lighthearted until you went down the track of trying to paint parents as liars for keeping mythological tradition alive.

Which brings me to the next aspect of your post -
But this has also been discussed earlier in the thread, before you jumped in. Please read the thread, so that you can have a better understanding of what has occurred already.
As I pointed out, you joined the thread at post #168 and you now suggest I haven’t read the thread and so don’t have an understaning of what has transpired.

Let me point out the following to you:
Post #25n is mine.
Post #26 is mine.
Post #91 is mine.
Post 92 is mine.
Post #96 is mine.
Post #159 is mine.
Post #160 is mine…

And that’s all before you joined the thread!
You can apologise if you feel the need. :rolleyes:

All this just reinforces the fact that you do not do your homework. Your points were addressed before you got to this thread.

Go back to page one and start reading before you tangle yourself up even more.
 
Wait, what?! A weather condition is mortally sinful? How again is taking a quiet stroll and listening to wildlife something that ‘should be avoided at all costs?’

Come on. The issue has been discussed, by all sides and all extremes. Get off it, people, and try to enjoy the last nine days of Christmas.
LIKE 👍
 
Catechism of The Catholic Church, paragraph 525 The Christmas Mystery Jesus was born in a humble stable, into a poor family. Simple shepherds were the first witnesses to this event. In this poverty heaven’s glory was made manifest. The Church never tires of singing the glory of this night:

The Virgin today brings into the world the Eternal
And the earth offers a cave to the Inaccessible.
The angels and shepherds praise him
And the magi advance with the star,
For you are born for us,
Little Child, God eternal!

Luke 2:6-8,20
Kontakion of Romanos Tthe Melodist
 
Rather than insult, can you give an example of “wordly defenses”?
An accurate criticism is not an insult. Relativism, the belief that all opinions are equal and therefore beyond reproach, and multiculturalism, the belief that all cultures are equal and therefore beyond reproach, provide the terminology to perform the mental acrobatics in defense of the indefensible.
 
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