Santa Claus is blasphemous

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CAn I believe that Saint Nick miraculously motivated me to run into Toys R Us and lay down $30 for a hello kitty toaster? I mean I would’nt be lying to kids then, just falling back on the intercession of saints.
 
Birdpreacher said:
CAn I believe that Saint Nick miraculously motivated me to run into Toys R Us and lay down $30 for a hello kitty toaster? I mean I would’nt be lying to kids then, just falling back on the intercession of saints.
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Hey, that doesn’t sound like a bad idea. Saint Nicholas is the patron saint of children after all.

I know you’re joking, of course, but I personally couldn’t condone the idea of “believing” that you were miraculously motivated to buy something, if you really don’t believe it.

Why not just attribute the generosity of such a gift to the inspiration of St. Nicholas instead?
 
I wholeheartedly understand the OP’s concerns. However, I urge anyone who wishes to completely abolish Santa to remember that before he became commcercialised, Santa Claus was originally the Dutch name for a real and brilliantly shining saint: Saint Nicholas.

We should not lie to our children. And we should not encourage them to believe in a wholly mythical construct. But we also must let them know where this tradition comes from: it’s not made up. It’s based on a very real truth. And while people may make a lot of mistakes about the truth, even saying that the truth is a lie, there is truth in Santa.

Santa doesn’t live at the North Pole, or jiggle like a bowl full of jelly, or visit the house of every “nice kid” in one single night and give them their heart’s desire and eat milk and cookies.

But he is more real than most people think. Santa Niclaus - Saint Nicholas - is in Heaven, and has the power to give you more than toys or candy or fruit. He can lead us to Christ, who can make us happy forever, without ever needing anything but Him. And like the Santa Claus most children believe in, Saint Nicholas really is generous and loves children. He once saved three girls from being sold into slavery. And he was known as the Wonderworker. Best of all, you never have to stop believing in Saint Nicholas, because he actually lived, and is with God now and forever.

Let us not forget this.

While I do agree that we allowed room for atheists, Jews, and pagans to turn Christmas into the godless thing it is now - by not making it about Christ, and making it about the mythical Santa Claus and his flying reindeer, and Christmas trees, feasts, and giving gifts - if we are going to reclaim Christmas - and for that matter, Easter - we’re going to have to re-Christianise the Christmas Tree, the music, Santa Claus, and the rest. Throwing that all away will only make us less popular, and for no good reason. After all, we’ve Christianised paganism before. We can do it again. Especially since the modern, secular Christmas in America is based on the Christian Christmas.

Whatcha think?
 
stanczyk said:
I don’t see what this has to do with parenting. If a parent wants to lie to their children, it’s none of my business, really.

But a lie is a lie. If you are telling children (or adults for that matter) that Santa Claus is real, with the intent to make the person you are telling believe it, then it is a lie (unless you honestly think Santa Claus does exist).
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Read my post; Santa Claus is the Dutch name for Saint Nicholas. True, the world has badly warped our picture of the Wonderwokrer Saint Nicholas - apparently to the point where people do not even think he is real anymore. 😉 And while I agree lying to children about Santa is not wise, maybe not even scrupulous, even if it is a tradition, there is no harm in telling them about the real Saint Nicholas.
 
IMHO, there are 2 kinds of Catholics in the world:
  1. “Rules lawyers” who analyze every line of the Catechism to determine what is a lie, or a mortal sin, or whatever, and…
  2. Those who got a visit from Santa Claus last nite.
IMHO, groups 1 and 2 are often, but not always, mutually exclusive.

I am a member of group 2, but not of group 1.

If my statement is uncharitable to those who are in group 1…

…I have 364 days to get back on the nice list, and I don’t care what you think anyway, since my conscience is well formed. 😃
 
TarkanAttila said:
Read my post; Santa Claus is the Dutch name for Saint Nicholas. True, the world has badly warped our picture of the Wonderwokrer Saint Nicholas - apparently to the point where people do not even think he is real anymore. 😉 And while I agree lying to children about Santa is not wise, maybe not even scrupulous, even if it is a tradition, there is no harm in telling them about the real Saint Nicholas.
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Well sure, telling children about the real Saint Nicholas is hardly a lie. But I was talking about Santa Claus, the fictional character who lives at the North Pole with elves and flying reindeer. Santa Claus might be based on St. Nicholas, but they are not identical.

I did read you post and I thought it was very insightful. I’d encourage you to read my posts, because I think we are in total agreement.
 
kbwall said:
I don’t even have to go into the fact that most of the imagery surrounding Santa Claus is Pagan in origin. That’s nothing but a cheap shot. There’s so many other reasons to hate Santa. Also, I am in no way against the blessed Saint Nicholas, he was a good guy. I’m not talking about an olden day saint who gave toys to poor children who had nothing, I’m talking about the guy in a red suit with elves and magical reindeer.

First off, it’s nothing but a blatant lie. I don’t care how much people try to butter it up by calling it childhood innocence. What is that supposed to mean anyway? It is nothing more than a lie, pure and simple. You’re telling them something that you know good and well is not true, sounds like a lie. Just to go into the further illogical-ness of it, many parents are upset when the truth is exposed. Many tiptoe around the subject when kids are around, like it’s something sacred. It’s nothing but a lie people! Parents shouldn’t be mad somebody told their kid the truth. Oh, and just like real lies, it requires more and more lies to keep it going. Best example: Telling kids that mall Santas are Santa’s helpers when kids get smart enough to realize Santa can’t be at every mall every Christmas.

Second, Santa takes away the main focus of the holiday, which is Jesus. Christmas has become a secular holiday, for the most part. And no, calling them “Christmas Trees” instead of “Holiday Trees” doesn’t help. That whole “Merry Christmas vs. Happy Holidays” is trivial and stupid, they’re nothing but words. Christmas has become secular all on its own, as it has essentially become national gift giving day, with almost no religious conotations to it at all. Santa has almost completely replaced Jesus.

And many conservatives try to blame liberals/atheists on the seculariation of Christmas. Nope, you guys did that all on your own. Let’s see, you took your religious holiday, purposefully removed all the religious symbolism, and replaced it with Santa, deer, elves, etc. You then essentially demanded the holiday take center stage in American culture, knowing full well that not all of America was Christian. And now they’re mad because they’ve essentially lost their holiday. No, you didn’t lose it, you gave it away and have only yourselves to blame.

Third, it’s stupid. OK, not a sin, but a valid point still. Go through the trouble of getting your child a Christmas present, and then giving credit to a guy who doesn’t even exist for no apparent reason. What a bizarre custom.

Fourth, it sends kids a horrible message. I saved the worst for last, as there are two bad messages Santa sends children. The first being that it’s OK to lie to people. I’ve already explained how Santa is a lie with my first point. The second message is its ties to religion. Let’s see, let’s convince our children that there’s an old guy with a beard. Even though you’ve never seen him or met him, he will reward you if you’re good. Hmm, sound famliar? There’s a reason atheists call God “Santa for adults”. Also, kids usually learn about God and Santa from the same source (their parents), so when one is found to be false, why should they believe anything their parents say about God? The fact that this blatant lie is also centered around one of the biggest Christian holidays doesn’t help matters either.

I’m not trying to say God is as fake as Santa. What I’m saying is that teaching your kids about Santa makes them more likely to doubt God.
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I think Santa is fine and isn’t he based off of St. Nicholas?

What I find problematic is when movies and society emphasize Santa and don’t mention a single thing about Christ. I am sick of seeing movies which make it look like Santa is the reason for Christmas and Santa saving Christmas etc. It’s CHRIST-mas, not SANTA-mas after all 🙂
 
Actually, Stancyk, I see folks going to the Catechism, over and over again, on this board, particularly in debates about lying, and particularly in support of the contention that all lying is always a sin (although the Church never says so). Heck, there are times I swear some folks on this board practically worship the Catechism rather that Jesus - they certainly quote the Catechism a lot more than they ever quote Jesus.

These same folks also tend, in my experience, to get completely bent out of shape when levity is directed toward them.

I’m guessing Santa missed OP’s house. Oh well. Too bad for him, I guess. He sure came to mine.
 
TarkanAttila said:
Santa doesn’t live at the North Pole, or jiggle like a bowl full of jelly, or visit the house of every “nice kid” in one single night and give them their heart’s desire and eat milk and cookies.
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Those cookies didn’t eat themselves last night.
 
VonDerTann said:
Actually, Stancyk, I see folks going to the Catechism, over and over again, on this board, particularly in debates about lying, and particularly in support of the contention that all lying is always a sin (although the Church never says so).
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Well, whether an action is a sin or not is ultimately between God and the sinner. But the Catechism is useful for providing a rulebook, so to speak, of the teachings of Christ’s Church. In that way I can see why somebody might end up quoting the Catechism more frequently than Christ. The holy tradition of the Church is equally important as scripture.
 
stanczyk said:
Well that’s truly remarkable. Merry Christmas!
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Yep, he definitely came! He filled the stockings and left a few things besides! (My kids finally went to bed, and I went to bed, and it was just us in the house, and he still came!)
stanczyk said:
I don’t see what this has to do with parenting. If a parent wants to lie to their children, it’s none of my business, really.

But a lie is a lie. If you are telling children (or adults for that matter) that Santa Claus is real, with the intent to make the person you are telling believe it, then it is a lie (unless you honestly think Santa Claus does exist).
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Santa came. I never lied. I told them he would come, and he did! (My kids are teens and 20).
pnewton said:
Those cookies didn’t eat themselves last night.
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Exactly! Mine either! 👍
 
Folklore isn’t a lie, fairy tales aren’t a lie, local/national traditions aren’t a lie, Santa isn’t a lie. There are the small truths that point to the greater Truth.

We should do a poll.

Who is an

Engineer who thinks Santa is a lie?
Non-engineer who thinks Santa is a lie?
 
Catholic90 said:
Yep, he definitely came! He filled the stockings and left a few things besides! (My kids finally went to bed, and I went to bed, and it was just us in the house, and he still came!)
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He came here too. What’s more, the dogs didn’t bark either. I have never figured that one out; I suppose Santa is a natural with animals. And, get this, we ‘trapped’ Santa’s footprints in talcum powder! And, now wait for it, my youngest daughter, 10, was given a brand new Catholic Bible in her stocking (which was really a pillow slip, on account of you can’t fit enough of the ‘commercial stuff’ into stockings!)! 😉 She got a new bike too and those things sure don’t even fit into pillow slips.
Santa came. I never lied. I told them he would come, and he did! (My kids are teens and 20).
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He always comes; never lets a believing soul down. I really don’t know what all the fuss is over.:rolleyes:
Exactly! Mine either! 👍
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Here, he polished off two entire cans of Bacardi and Coke, plus the goodies we left out for him. We normally leave out a bottle of beer and a glass, but the kids thought he might appreciate it if we went more ‘top shelf’, hence the Bacardi and Coke. Not a drop left!! Then again, it was a pretty warm night. And, let’s face it, he needed a good stiff drink before heading off on that long haul north east across the Pacific to do you lot. :D.
 
The Church has never been puritanical in its gracious allowances of personal, familial, and even cultural traditions in celebration of liturgically important feasts. That being said, the only issue I have with Santa is that the commercial enterprises have co-opted him to stimulate greediness in kids. Using the term “blasphemy” is, in my opinion, a little over the top. It seems like the appropriate use of Santa is more of a parenting issue than anything else. With my nieces, I was always very careful to tell them of the Three Kings, and the real St. Nicholas, as underlying the gift-giving tradition that surrounds Christmas, and I was always careful to give small gifts, not the huge extreme toys that some parents dole out at Christmastime. I left the selection of “big gifts” to their parents. I don’t have children of my own.
 
why do people get so worked up over this? it’s the time to be happy! Besides, Santa Claus is based on Saint Nicolas, an actual saint, and he gives more meaning to the younger children who don’t quite understand what Christ did for them yet, I grew up and Saint Nick played a part in my life too, but I also believed Baby Jesus left the presents, and to be honest, I never stopped believing in Jesus because of Saint Nick! Merry Christmas everyone!
 
I wrote this on a different thread- just my own opinion…everyone has their own and I respect them all…

When I was younger, I and my siblings believed in Santa. We believed in everything- the jolly man in the red suit, the reindeer, the elves, ect. Every Chrstmas morning we’d come down to see our presents left by Santa- complete with a letter. Those letters always contained the reminder that we should enjoy our gifts, but remember what Christmas is truly about. In our house, Santa delivered to us the good news every year that Jesus Christ was born that day, and we should rejoice in his birth. We were told that Jesus always watched us and loved us and we should strive to be our best.
Then one year, I watched the movie Yes Virginia, There is a Santa Claus. When the movie ended I cornered my parents before bed and told them I was pretty sure Santa wasn’t real. They told me that that was correct; it was they who placed our gifts under the tree. I wasn’t even really saddened by this or cared all that much.
Over the years since that night, I have given thought to why it was those particular circumstances that led me to stop believing in Santa. I realized that Santa wasn’t truly a myth- Santa existed in all who gave presents at Christmas. When you buy presents for your children, obviously you’re playing Santa. When you drop some money into the Salvation Army kettle- you’re Santa. Those nice people who went around paying for strangers’ lay aways- they are Santa.
But it’s more than that. Santa is only one night a year. Those people aren’t just Santa Claus, they are also the love of Christ poured out to others. Santa exists for a night- Jesus exists forever. Santa is just one more manifestation of the love of Christ- a story to be sure, but when used properly, a wonderful learning tool for children to understand the love of Jesus. In our case, he actually taught us about Jesus. Santa may not have been real, but his words (more precisely, the words of my father) in his letters were very real. He taught us that he may bring us gifts, and we may give gifts to others, but that God gave us the greatest gift of all- His son. And God gives us that gift everyday, and we celebrate that gift every Christmas.
I have continued this tradition with my children- in fact, I even ask my dad to write Santa’s letters because his writing is so wonderful. So yes, there is a Santa. He exists for me. To my brother, sister, and myself, Santa was wonderful for a few years. But we didn’t just stop believing. We grew out of our belief of Santa because we grew into our faith in God and Jesus. I will believe in Santa until the day I die, because to me, he is one more example of love.
I am glad my parents let me believe, and I wouldn’t take the magic away from my children for anything. But that’s just my personal belief…
 
jfmarm81, you said this:

“To my brother, sister, and myself, Santa was wonderful for a few years. But we didn’t just stop believing. We grew out of our belief of Santa because we grew into our faith in God and Jesus. I will believe in Santa until the day I die, because to me, he is one more example of love.
I am glad my parents let me believe, and I wouldn’t take the magic away from my children for anything”

–AMEN. You said it all.
 
Blasphemous? I agree that the miracle of Christmas is too often overshadowed by a shopping frenzy by many folks who have no relationship with our Lord and Savior. But I believe the story of St. Nicholas can be taught and practiced as a symbol of hope and love. Our children did grow up with Santa…and when they learned that my husband and I played the role of Santa, we included them in our tradition of also playing that role for the poor and marginalized in our community. We provide toys to children who might not otherwise receive a toy and food/meals to those who struggle to put food on their table. As servants of Christ, we can teach lessons through Santa. Call it blasphemous, not in our home. Santa is not God or god. Through parents, he demonstrates a generous spirit to all children equally. The miracle of Christmas is not Santa, and the focus is on Jesus, and Santa is a small part of the celebration.
 
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