Sarcastic atheist arguments

[filter2700]

So I’m talking to this atheist, and I’d like to get some help on some of the things he’s saying. He is speaking as if he is explaining life from a Christian point of view to a baby.

He says that “we are born worthless, void, and corrupt. We were born sinners, and the wages of sin is death. psam 51:5, romans 5:12.” and I agree with this.

This is where he starts to get sarcastic and attacks Christianity.

Some day when you are old enough to understand, you must ask forgiveness, not for anything you’ve done, but for what others did, thousands of years ago at the beginning of the world.

Also, you must tell God how sorry you are for murdering his son, Jesus.

I know, it happened generations before YOU drew your first breath, and ultimately it was apart of God’s divine plan, but the responsibility is yours. YOU are guilty, and YOU must ask to be forgiven.

Unfortunately everything you produce in your lifetime must be given to God, who will never accept your offerings personally, but you must listen for Him, for His voice will never be heard audibly.

You will thank Him for His direction and guidance, but His mysterious ways will confuse you. Although you are more important to God than anything else in the universe, He will never show you His face, or reveal Himself in any provable way.

To truly know God, you must study a book, an ancient book, written thousands years ago, in a language you cannot understand. You must fulfill a great commission, to make others see the world as you do, to have them believe as you do, to live as you do. And then, to go out and convince even more to do the same.

As a reward for this, you will be given the privilege to praise God, without end, for all eternity, in a hidden happy place that can only be seen by the dead.

You must pledge your entire life on this earth to your invisible Father and His great commission, or He will send you to a dark pit, where the flesh is roasted from your bones, and you arrive in unimaginable agony forever and ever.

But you must not do this because you fear horrible torture and pain, you must do it because you love God. No matter what happens in your life time, the more your world seems to defy everything I’ve taught you here, just continue to say the words out loud:

“God is REAL, GOD IS GOOD.”

And one day you will look into the eyes of your own child and teach him these very same things, so he can some day teach his own children, and their children, and THEIR children, for generations.

This guy has a really twisted, and sarcastic way of trying to get others to stop believing. I’ve tried talking with him and I need some help, but I’m not incredibly wise when it comes to theology/apologetics I’ll be honest so can you guys break this down and explain our Christian beliefs better? It seems like he has a hatred for God and it’s obviously why he feels he can’t use real arguments and instead has to attack Christianity in the sarcastic way. He also said this:

This kind of brainwashing [Christianity] does not deserve respect, and it is precisely because I “understand their perspective” that I believe it should be exposed for the insanity that it is. Superstitions (especially those that target children and threaten eternal torment) should be exposed, ridiculed and extinguished.

So let me know what your response is to this guy, thanks.

 

[DavidFilmer]

This is where he starts to get sarcastic and attacks Christianity.

His remarks are mostly directed at protestant-type theology. There is little in here that is relevant to Catholic theology.

Some day when you are old enough to understand, you must ask forgiveness, not for anything you’ve done, but for what others did, thousands of years ago at the beginning of the world.

He appears to be talking about original sin. But Catholics believe original sin is remitted by Baptism, usually administered to infants. Even when administered to adults, there is no requirement to express any sort of personal remorse (and doing so would indicate a lack of understanding of Catholic doctrine).

Also, you must tell God how sorry you are for murdering his son, Jesus.

I have no idea where that’s coming from. I’ve never heard of that in Catholic or protestant practices. Maybe this is some far-out fringe wacko cult thing that he picked up on somehow.

I know, it happened generations before YOU drew your first breath, and ultimately it was apart of God’s divine plan, but the responsibility is yours. YOU are guilty, and YOU must ask to be forgiven.

Ibid 1.

Unfortunately everything you produce in your lifetime must be given to God, who will never accept your offerings personally, but you must listen for Him, for His voice will never be heard audibly.

I’m not sure what the first part is talking about. Catholic theology does not maintain that God will ever “speak” individually to anyone.

You will thank Him for His direction and guidance, but His mysterious ways will confuse you. Although you are more important to God than anything else in the universe, He will never show you His face, or reveal Himself in any provable way.

Is this supposed to be the source of confusion? Earthly parents love and care about their children, even if they are never able to see them (or be seen by them).

To truly know God, you must study a book, an ancient book, written thousands years ago, in a language you cannot understand. You must fulfill a great commission, to make others see the world as you do, to have them believe as you do, to live as you do. And then, to go out and convince even more to do the same.

Again, this is pure protestant doctrine. Reading the Bible is not a condition (or even a part) of obtaining salvation under Catholic theology. The Great Commission (the last few verses of Matthew) that he refers to are directed to the Church as a whole, not to each individual Christian. We are not required to lead anyone (other than ourselves) to salvation.

As a reward for this, you will be given the privilege to praise God, without end, for all eternity, in a hidden happy place that can only be seen by the dead.

Obtaining heaven is not a “reward” for things we do (though it could be said that it is a “reward” for things we do *not *do - ie, fall into mortal sin).

You must pledge your entire life on this earth to your invisible Father and His great commission, or He will send you to a dark pit, where the flesh is roasted from your bones, and you arrive in unimaginable agony forever and ever.

There is no such pledge in Catholic theology. And Catholic theology maintains that non-believers can obtain heaven (invincible ignorance).

But you must not do this because you fear horrible torture and pain, you must do it because you love God.

More protestant theology. The ONLY thing that matters to Catholic salvation is if we die in a State of Grace - nothing else. We do not need to “love” God (whatever that means) to remain in a State of Grace.

And the remainder has no substantive merit to rebut.

Out of curiosity, is this Atheist a Dad? (ie, an AtheistDad)?

 

[FaithfulAndTrue]

As sad as it is, sometimes you just gotta Luke 9:5.

 

[filter2700]

It’s actually a video, so watching it might make more sense. I typed it out so it would be easier to respond to.

youtube.com/watch?v=1Rwioe1SGkQ

 

[TimothyH]

As sad as it is, sometimes you just gotta Luke 9:5.

Too many are not willing to shake the dust off their feet and move on. My friend’s father used to call it “Whipping a dead horse’s a–.”

Along with the zeal to engage in apologetics, we have to develop the ability to discern when our work is fruitful and when it is not. Jesus cursed the unfruitful fig tree. We can’t waste God’s time and God’s effort on people who are not ready to accept the word of God or we become just like the cursed fig tree - all withered and dried up - exhausted from the effort and nothing to show for it.

Plant a seed by showing the beauty and truth of the Catholic faith, water it with prayer, and let God do the work. If the seed doesn’t grow because the ground is too dry then shake the dust off your feet and move on to moist ground.

-Tim-

 

[TimothyH]

You must pledge your entire life on this earth to your invisible Father

I belive that baptism is our pledge.

St. Louis de Montfort said that the great cause of sin and falling away is that too many don’t recall the promises of their baptism. That’s why it is so important to attend the easter vigil when we renew those promises.

-Tim-

 

[Allegra]

So I’m talking to this atheist, and I’d like to get some help on some of the things he’s saying. He is speaking as if he is explaining life from a Christian point of view to a baby.

He says that “we are born worthless, void, and corrupt. We were born sinners, and the wages of sin is death. psam 51:5, romans 5:12.” and I agree with this.

This is where he starts to get sarcastic and attacks Christianity.

This guy has a really twisted, and sarcastic way of trying to get others to stop believing. I’ve tried talking with him and I need some help, but I’m not incredibly wise when it comes to theology/apologetics I’ll be honest so can you guys break this down and explain our Christian beliefs better? It seems like he has a hatred for God and it’s obviously why he feels he can’t use real arguments and instead has to attack Christianity in the sarcastic way. He also said this:

So let me know what your response is to this guy, thanks.

Honestly, I’d say that any attempt to evangelize this individual is highly unlikely to be successful. He or she clearly isn’t approaching the subject with an open mind. Any attempts to reason are going to be met with sarcasm. If you’re goal is to argue, then carry on, but if you actually are concerned for the person, you’d be better off remembering him or her in your prayers.

 

[ChildOfTheLight]

We do not need to “love” God (whatever that means) to remain in a State of Grace.

DavidFilmer, I agree with most of what you said…except this!

Jesus tells us the two greatest commandments…and this is #1.

We love Jesus the same way we would love anyone else…only different…and more. To me, it is loving all that is of God…purity, charity, truth, creation. I follow the ten commandments because Jesus asked me to. I do this out of love for Him. I imagine you do it out of love for the Lord and His Chuch too…you just don’t realize that’s why you do.

We cannot (and shouldn’t) follow the commandments just to get eternal life.

 

[CaseyDeAnn]

Yeah, I’ve seen that video before. It’s awful.

First problem:
Original Sin is not something we have to ask God to forgive us for. We ask him to forgive us for our sins (offenses against Goodness Itself), which are caused by our lack of His grace. We lack His grace because man is fallen. Here’s where they make fun of the Adam & Eve story, for which I can’t really blame them, but still it is obvious that mankind has fallen from grace, and everyone must accept they lack God’s grace, whether or not they choose to take the Adam and Eve story literally.

Second problem:
I don’t even know where they got the “you killed Jesus” thing. In Acts Peter stood up and said “This Jesus, whom you crucified, has been made Lord and King,” but he was actually speaking to the Jews who cried out for Jesus to be crucified, not us, although some heretical Christian sects (International Churches of Christ) may teach that we all killed Jesus.

Third problem:
In a Christian sense, they are right when they say a portion of our profits is to be given to God. The problem is the misrepresentation. Our donations are given to charities, schools, and other good causes, and also to sustain our priests. It brings to light when Jesus spoke of the final judgment: “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me’” (Mt 35:34-40).

Fourth problem:
They fail to understand that this life is basically a test. Saying that “God will never show you His face” is stupid. God is spirit. And Jesus isn’t going to appear to everyone to tell them what to do. He already has told us what to do! Now we must make the decision to live by His words. Those who are troubled and in need of God’s guidance must meditate on Scripture and God–prayer. That is how God communicates with us. Atheists of course have never experienced this. Also, there is plenty of evidence for God’s existence: creation needs a creator, saints’ bodies that have not corrupted, the Miracle of Lanciano, etc… These cannot be explained away by science because they are miracles and proofs of God’s presence. Jesus and Mary have appeared to Godly, humble souls throughout time. The prideful, I don’t think, deserve the apparitions. The faithful don’t need God to appear to them in order to confirm their beliefs; God knows how much they already love Him. So when He appears to them, it is for a purpose.

Fifth problem:
Here they attempt to lampoon Scripture by saying it was written thousands of years ago in a different language. I never understood this logic or what the actual argument is. God revealed Himself and now we must live by His will. He is Love. What’s the problem?

Sixth problem:
Once again, they simply misrepresent Christian doctrine. We’re rewarded for accepting His grace, which in turn motivates us act faithfully and spread the Good News, that He loves us. God created us to glorify Him. He does not need us, but He is offering us eternal peace with Him. It is only in our nature to admire what is beautiful. How much more will we admire perfection, that is, God? It will bring us the greatest joy. Heaven is a “hidden, happy place that can only be seen by the dead” because it is outside of time, matter, and space. It is the spiritual presence of God because God is spirit and without our bodies we exist as our essence, our souls, until we are reunited with our bodies. I guess atheists don’t hear much about the resurrection of the body, or I’m sure they would have attempted to ridicule that, too.

Seventh problem (sigh…):
In hell, nobody is being roasted. It is a spiritual torment due to being in the COMPLETE absence of God, who, once again, is Truth and Love in their perfect forms. While a physical being, if you reject God and His graces, you will go where you wanted to be: separated from Him. Plenty of people have not heard of Jesus, but they are not going to hell. People go to hell because they reject God, as we have seen in this video. It is very sad. “If God is joy, hell must be pain.”

Eighth:
Nothing in the world defies “everything I have taught you.” It confirms it.

 

[Jmd96]

So I’m talking to this atheist, and I’d like to get some help on some of the things he’s saying. He is speaking as if he is explaining life from a Christian point of view to a baby.

He says that “we are born worthless, void, and corrupt. We were born sinners, and the wages of sin is death. psam 51:5, romans 5:12.” and I agree with this.

This is where he starts to get sarcastic and attacks Christianity.

This guy has a really twisted, and sarcastic way of trying to get others to stop believing. I’ve tried talking with him and I need some help, but I’m not incredibly wise when it comes to theology/apologetics I’ll be honest so can you guys break this down and explain our Christian beliefs better? It seems like he has a hatred for God and it’s obviously why he feels he can’t use real arguments and instead has to attack Christianity in the sarcastic way. He also said this:

So let me know what your response is to this guy, thanks.

The answers others have given on here are really good, and respond well to the only part of this stuff that resembles an actual argument.

Ask him to cite his sources for everything he says here, especially saying Christianity is “brainwashing”. In turn, you can give references to the CCC to explain Catholic beliefs. This may force him to do actual research into Christian beliefs and admit that he’s misrepresenting them (In an ideal world at least )

At the end of the day, though, these types of atheists shouldn’t be taken too seriously. They’re as close-minded as fundamentalists, and ridiculing others’ valid belief systems is one of their concrete goals. I’ll be praying for them lots.

God bless,

 

[faithfully]

You know, this is an interesting situation.

I discovered, my distant (don’t know him well) little cousin is an atheist. His FB posting was so crass, I couldn’t help but respond. His parent is my parent’s half sibling. I told my parent what he wrote, my parent FREAKED… it was like a huge slap in the face. COULD NOT believe that a family member would be so gross! The language, the words directed to this “pretend God” where utterly disgusting.

I suspect he was raised with religion, That side of the family not Catholic… but quite religious. When he kept throwing HIS interpretations of the bible at me and that’s why he doesn’t believe… I finally just said… Oh, I get it, you were raised on sola scripture.

yep… When you get to make up what everything means, then it’s pretty dang easy to support your own arguements… I have nothing to add…

the ONLY atheist I’ve ever hung with was polite enough to say, we don’t agree, let’s talk about something else… And then went to church with me post 9/11 because even she got that we needed something beyond human power to help!

 

[filter2700]

Thanks for all the replies, I can relate to him on a certain level of being doubtful and skeptical, but I think his view of what Christianity is is from more of a protestant view like what all of you said, cause he takes a lot of the things literally. It’s just pretty sad I guess, because I’ve always learned that if you have a different belief, especially when it comes to believing in God or not, to defend your belief in an honest, sincere, reasonable way. The creator of the video has some problems with Christianity specifically, to spend his time editing a video like that, hiring a voice actor and such to attack a belief. If a person has a different view of things at least they can keep it respectful and use real arguments, instead of weakly attacking Christianity, and not even doing a good job at it either.

 

[maximus]

I can understand that for some people to believe in a God is folly. But what is their obsession is deriding and trying to take away religious rights from others. They seem to believe that a totally atheistic society would not be a noble one, in harmony with nature striving for high scientific ideals. In reality, it would fall highly short of those goals and would be extremely violent and decadent. They have no idea on how Western society was built by Catholicism.

God bless

 

[EricFilmer]

So let me know what your response is to this guy, thanks.

In terms of atheists who want to debate the validity of Christianity, I have met a handful who do so in a respectful, insightful manner. But these are the exception, and the person you quoted is certainly not one of them.

The majority of the others I have encountered or heard about (including the person you have quoted) seem to think that the proper way to engage in debate is to be as irritatingly condescending as possible. As you put it, the atheist you encountered was “sarcastic”, and the sarcasm in these encounters is usually coupled with condescension. Note how in your quoted material he even spells it all out, calling for the open ridicule of Christian belief. I think the tactic is to mock us Christians and try make us feel stupid so that we will shut up and stop debating. This is the end-game extinguishing that he calls for.

**In other words, such atheists are like the French knight in Monte Python and the Holy Grail…
**
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"Go away, or I will taunt you a second time!!!"

Usually I just stick it out with well reasoned answers (and the condescending atheists eventually quit the field), but in many cases it probably comes down to a situation of casting pearls before swine.

 

[DavidFilmer]

I belive that baptism is our pledge [to your entire life on this earth to your invisible Father and His great commission].

St. Louis de Montfort said that the great cause of sin and falling away is that too many don’t recall the promises of their baptism. That’s why it is so important to attend the easter vigil when we renew those promises.

The promises we renew at this vigil are:

Priest: Do you reject Satan?
Response: I do.
Priest: And all his works?
Response: I do.
Priest: And all his empty promises?
Response: I do.

I do not find that these promises rise to the criteria stipulated by the OP’s correspondent. Please correct me if I am negligent in mentioning relevant promises.

 

[DavidFilmer]

DavidFilmer, I agree with most of what you said…except this!

Jesus tells us the two greatest commandments…and this is #1 [to love God, with all our hearts, and all our minds, and all our souls].

My point is that nobody seems to know exactly what “love God” means. The Catholic Church does not teach this criteria, nor do any protestant faiths of which I am aware.

But this is absolutely not part of any requirement of salvation stipulated by the Catholic Church. The Church steadfastly maintains that the ONLY requirement of salvation is to die in a State of Grace. This ordinarily means someone who is Baptized (even as a infant) and has not committed any act of mortal sin which has not been absolved by Sacramental Confession (though there are a number of exceptions by which someone might also obtain salvation outside of these norms).

In fact, the Church maintains that someone may attain salvation without even knowing God (much less loving him).