Sarum Blue

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Ite_ad_Ioseph

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I heard today that the color blue was used in the Sarum Rite for feasts of the Holy Spirit. I know blue is illegal in the Roman Rite, as famous controverseis have shown.
Who else has heard of this?
Pax
 
Ite_ad_Ioseph said:
I know blue is illegal in the Roman Rite, as famous controverseis have shown.
Who else has heard of this?
Pax
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I never thought about this before. Why is blue illegal and could you give me a famous controversy?
 
Yes, the Sarum Rite used blue vestments. And blue may be used in some Spanish dioceses who have an indult for its use on feasts of Mary. Blue is not, however, a liturgical color. Note that it may be the most commonly used color in the Byzantine tradition.

Deacon Ed
 
PoliSciProf said:
I never thought about this before. Why is blue illegal and could you give me a famous controversy?
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Well, the Catholic Encyclopedia says the legal colors for the Roman Rite are white, red, green, violet, and black. Rose, essentially light red or pink, can also be used on the 3rd Sunday of Advent and the 4th Sunday of Lent. Cloth of gold vestments cna replace red, white, or green, and silver can replace white.

Having said that, certain Protestant churches revived an old practice of using blue in Advent. The Sarum and Mozarabic(Old Spanish) Rites used it, but they didn’t really exist anymore. Then uninformed Catholic churches started using blue for Advent, that is, in America. That is the famous controversy: Catholics in America not knowing what they are doing, and using illegal rubrics for the Mass.
Pax.
 
  1. I assume Spain can use it because their old rite used it.
  2. Why is it used most in the Byzantine tradition, Deacon?
  3. If Rome allowed it, would you use blue in Advent?
    What about in the Extraordinary Form, if the Pope allowed it for it?
    Pax
 
Ite_ad_Ioseph said:
  1. I assume Spain can use it because their old rite used it.
  2. Why is it used most in the Byzantine tradition, Deacon?
  3. If Rome allowed it, would you use blue in Advent?
    What about in the Extraordinary Form, if the Pope allowed it for it?
    Pax
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Answers:
  1. Correct.
  2. I follow the guidelines currently in use that suggest a violet (more reddish) during Lent and a bluer purple for Advent. If blue were permitted I’d wear it.
  3. In the Byzantine tradition there are no “liturgical colors” as there are in the West. Rather, the Byzantines have “light” (white, gold, blue) and “dark” (red, purple) as their primary colors. Dark colors are worn during Great Lent and Advent while light colors are worn the rest of the year. Since white and gold are used for higher ranking celebrations (think solemnities in the Latin tradition) blue is, by default, the color use the rest of the year. The sole exception is that green is used on Pentecost and, in some traditions, the Sundays following Pentecost.
Deacon Ed
 
:hmmm: I’ve heard of this somewhere, someplace before too, years ago, I’m not sure where though, perhaps it was on EWTN?
 
First of all, thank you Deacon. My only remaining comment is on the shade of purple. Why bluish in Advent and reddish in Lent?
I think red purple would be more ‘royal’, like Tyrian Purple. The ‘royal’ purple was really red purple.(Anyone who doesn’t know, Google tyrian purple.) Blue-purple looks more sad and melancholy to me, which would remind me of the Lenten season, imho.
But then again, if the rubrics don’t mention shade, I guess we can do whatever.
One more- why would you use blue? Because you can? It looks pretty?..etc. I don’t know if I would, I would probobly ask the priest.
Pax
 
The color blue has been interdicted in the Liturgy in general, but exceptions have been made. An indult in Spain has already been mentioned here. The Holy Father also abrogated the interdiction during a visit to Austria last September where he was presented with a chasuble which was blue and yellow.
 
I’ve seen white chasuables with heavy blue accenting (even almost entire center chest pieces) used, particularly for Marian feasts.
 
Ite_ad_Ioseph said:
First of all, thank you Deacon. My only remaining comment is on the shade of purple. Why bluish in Advent and reddish in Lent?
I think red purple would be more ‘royal’, like Tyrian Purple. The ‘royal’ purple was really red purple.(Anyone who doesn’t know, Google tyrian purple.) Blue-purple looks more sad and melancholy to me, which would remind me of the Lenten season, imho.
But then again, if the rubrics don’t mention shade, I guess we can do whatever.
One more- why would you use blue? Because you can? It looks pretty?..etc. I don’t know if I would, I would probobly ask the priest.
Pax
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The idea of reddish purple during Lent is a reflection of the shed blood of Jesus on Good Friday. Mary’s traditionally represented with blue in iconography, so the bluer shades of purple during Advent are suggested. Note that any shade of purple may be worn during either of these two penitential seasons. Note, there is even a shade of purple called periwinkle that some clergy wear. This is a light purple that some say looks blue. I tend to stay away from that simply because it does look blue.

As for why I would use blue – to honor Mary during Advent.

Deacon Ed
 
You sure know you’re stuff, Deacon. If blue is ever permitted it will be because of its abuse while it was illegal, which will somewhat dampen its existence.

In the spirit of liturgical colors, I have to mention this:kingrichards.com/products.php?uid=6130

I have never even heard of orange as a lit. color. Since it can’t be used in the Roman Rite, can it be use in the Byzantine Rite?
Liturgics are awesome!
 
Orange is not a liturgical color in any tradition that I know of. There are reds, however, that contain orange and, under the right (wrong?) lighting may appear orange. For the Latin tradition, the liturgical colors are black, white (which includes silver and gold), red, green, violet/purple and rose. Where the use of other colors comes into play the usual defense is that the GIRM specifies: “On more solemn days, sacred vestments may be used that are festive, that is, more precious, even if not of the color of the day.”

You may recall Pope John Paul II wearing yellow vestments. They were actually a shade of gold, but if you simply looked at them, the average person would say yellow.

Deacon Ed
 
Why is blue interdicted? Surely the colour that represents the Blessed Virgin can be worn in the liturgy?
 
DL82 said:
Why is blue interdicted? Surely the colour that represents the Blessed Virgin can be worn in the liturgy?
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The use of blue vestments in the West is found in only two liturgical traditions: the Sarum and Mozarabic (Spanish). Spain retains the right to use blue whle the Sarum usage no longer exists. Because blue is not a liturgical color it is not to be worn in the liturgy.

Deacon Ed
 
The Sarum and Mozarabic(Old Spanish) Rites used it, but they didn’t really exist anymore.

The Mozarabic Rite exists in several churches and chapels in Toledo.
 
bpbasilphx said:
The Sarum and Mozarabic(Old Spanish) Rites used it, but they didn’t really exist anymore.

The Mozarabic Rite exists in several churches and chapels in Toledo.
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Correct. That’s why I said that Sarum Rite no longer exists.

Deacon Ed
 
Blue is commonly worn during Masses for the BVM on Saturday mornings throughout the Americas, throughout the year. I think it might actually be allowed in some Latin American countries like Costa Rica. We wear it on Saturday mornings here in California.

Hopefully it’s not such a huge abuse that it will send all of us to burn in Hell for eternity.
 
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