Sarum Mass

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bkovacs said:
Maybe we can do away completely with the NO Mass and replace it with the Sarum Mass, which was used in English speaking countries before the Reformation.
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By “English Speaking Countries” you mean Britain…

And it was in Latin all the same. I don’t know why that would be preferable to existing rites…
 
How is the Sarum Mass different from the Anglican-Use Mass? (I’m a convert from Anglicanism and grew up with the 1928 Common Book of Prayer so I’d love to see one of those on this Left Coast!)
 
Simple Sinner,

Isn’t it preferable for a number of reasons? Not ambiguous in its catholicity, can’t be celebrated ad populum, isn’t 40 years old, is organic, wasn’t invented in consultation with Protestant ministers, isn’t a mix of weird antiquarianism with novel liturgics, etc. etc. etc. (etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.)?
 
Alexios said:
Simple Sinner,

Isn’t it preferable for a number of reasons? Not ambiguous in its catholicity, can’t be celebrated ad populum, isn’t 40 years old, is organic, wasn’t invented in consultation with Protestant ministers, isn’t a mix of weird antiquarianism with novel liturgics, etc. etc. etc. (etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.)?
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I am sailing right past the consultation and invention remarks to get to the heart of my objection: we already have the Tridentine Mass which has been in continuous celebration in essentially the same form well before it was codified. If you want to be a little crazy and go for the Traditional Ambrosian rite, that has continuity and has been celebrated non-stop for centuries, as has the Domincan and Carmelite rites…

Why resurrect the Sarum missal (with all options of hijacking) when we have the Tridentine, Ambrosian, Dominican, Carmelite etc.?
 
Alexios said:
Simple Sinner,

Isn’t it preferable for a number of reasons? Not ambiguous in its catholicity, can’t be celebrated ad populum, isn’t 40 years old, is organic, wasn’t invented in consultation with Protestant ministers, isn’t a mix of weird antiquarianism with novel liturgics, etc. etc. etc. (etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.)?
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Hi, I saw this post, and I wanted to add my two cents. I hope I’m not being rude 🙂

In defense of the Novus Ordo, the Tridentine Mass can also be celebrated ad populum…the rubrics dictate that the Priest face East, not that he not face the people, as can be seen at St. Peter’s in Rome. In fact, the rubrics for the Tridentine Mass contain directions for the Mass when celebrated facing ad populum. The Novus Ordo also can be celebrated facing East. The rubrics for the Novus Ordo assume that the Priest has his back to the people throughout the Mass, facing East, actually, and require him to face the congregation fewer times than the Tridentine Mass.

With the exception of the Offertory and a few minor parts, the Novus Ordo is remarkably similar to the Tridentine Mass if you remove the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar and everything after the “Ite, Missa est” which were only added officially within 100 years after the Council of Trent. Before that, they were simply preparatory prayers for the Sacristy, or for the priest to say on the way to the Altar. The Penitential Rite in the Novus Ordo is taken from the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar, i.e. the Confiteor.

The Roman Mass was not revised in consultation with Protestants, and saying that they were present at Vatican II does not equate to having a say in the Council, as Protestants were also invited to attend Trent. Trent attempted to revise the Ordo Missae also, keep in mind, but they didn’t have the resources at the time.

God Bless 👍
 
brigid12 said:
How is the Sarum Mass different from the Anglican-Use Mass? (I’m a convert from Anglicanism and grew up with the 1928 Common Book of Prayer so I’d love to see one of those on this Left Coast!)
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The Anglican Use of the Roman Rite comes from the Anglican Book of Common Prayer.

The medieval Sarum Use was based on the Roman Rite. Though the Book of Common Prayer bears seom resemblance to both the Sarum Use and the traditional Roman Rite proper, it is quite simplified and abbreviated.
 
The Angliccan Use Book of Divine Worship includes liturgies from the 1979 BCP, corrected to be Catholic. It also includes the 1928liturgies for Baptism and Marriage, as well as the Coverdale Psalter, all of which are not in the 1979 BCP. The canon of the Mass is a translation of the canon in use in England in the 1540,s.

It is a beautiful liturgy.

If there are any questions regarding the Anglican Use I suggest going to the source, a priest who is Anglican Use.

The Church (Rome) has been very good to former Episcopal priests who are now Anglican Use.

I believe the solution to Anglicans who wish to become Catholic and have an Anglican Use liturgy is submitting to the authority of the Church and I think there are many who don’t want to do this. It is very difficult when looking from outside of the Church to really see the freedom once you do submit to authority.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
 
I would love to see more Anglican Use parishes spring up; that is, I’d love to see more Anglicans enter into communion with Rome. I’ve always had a soft spot for the Anglicans, as I almost became one. 😃 If there was an Anglican Use parish anywhere nearby, I would attend. In fact, there is an Anglican church a few minutes up the road that I’ve been praying for the conversion of…

Hehe. What can I say? I’m an Anglophile at heart… In all seriousness, though, there are many Christians that truly love God in the Anglican Church that ought to come Home.
 
The Sarum rite was a use of the the Diocese of Salisbury and was not used throughout England. It was the use of one diocese and, being a use of Latin rite, would have little meaning to many Catholics, most of whom do not even know of its very limited and local existence 500+ years ago.

In other words, it was never a widespread English custom, though some late 20th century Anglicans did use it to justify a variety of innovations.
 
Chatter163 said:
The Sarum rite was a use of the the Diocese of Salisbury and was not used throughout England. It was the use of one diocese and, being a use of Latin rite, would have little meaning to many Catholics, most of whom do not even know of its very limited and local existence 500+ years ago.

In other words, it was never a widespread English custom, though some late 20th century Anglicans did use it to justify a variety of innovations.
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Actually the Sarum Use spread throughout England, particularly in the south. It became the dominant Rite until the English Reformation.
 
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