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Margaret_Ann
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These are the propers for St. Mark in the UGCC:
Sat the 25th is a Rogation Day
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Torolf
Guest
The parish priest along with some of the parishioners process around the territorial bounds of the parish. The priest would pray for blessing of the parish and also prayers of exorcism. The parishioners would follow behind singing hymns and the young boys of the parish would often carry green boughs to beat the ground along the boundary line.
It was an English and Welsh custom from before the Reformation which later spread throughout the world through Anglicanism. Now through the Ordinariates it’s been restored to the Catholic Church.
It was an English and Welsh custom from before the Reformation which later spread throughout the world through Anglicanism. Now through the Ordinariates it’s been restored to the Catholic Church.
CF_Mathews
Patron
How fascinating!
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twf
Guest
This would be a difficult task in places where a single parish may extend across dozens of kilometers as would be typical in rural areas today. I can think of parishes that would probably take a couple hours to drive around…walking wouldn’t be an option period!
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OraLabora
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I don’t think one has to fast on a feast day especially in a place where Rogation Days are no longer observed!Today is also the feast of St Mark, which is a full feast not a memorial. I wonder if it’s not his feast on the EF calendar? Not sure it’s fair to St Mark if I fast on his feast day.
Although I did fast from Chanting the Office that day and just recited it. Because one of my Gregorian compadres said that both of Solesmes greatest recent choirmasters died on the feast of St. Mark; dom Gajard, and dom Claire died on a 25th of April, the first in 1972, the second in 2006. I asked him what he did and he said “I like to live dangerously so I chanted on the 25th…”.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
If they did it, they’d probably just walk around the church property. We have some parishes around here with “campuses” so big we can do a half-hour Eucharistic procession just going around the campus and the parking lot. Of course there are others, mostly in the city, where there’s no parking lot at all and the church property consists of the church building.
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CF_Mathews
Patron
I agree there certainly is no obligation to fast, though even if you are not in an area that celebrates trad customs, you can still on your own, observe these ancient traditions in any way you feel is appropriate. I believe we need to teach these customs to our children and bring them back.
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OraLabora
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I don’t know. I think Catholicism is complicated enough as it is. Our kids have to live in a much different world than in the '40s and '50s when many lived in close-knit Catholic communities and where local businesses, neighbours and employers were likely to follow the same customs.
That is no longer the case. I think fasting in Lent and abstaining on Fridays is already hard enough in our secular world.
I’m actually very happy with the simplifications of Vatican II (liturgical reform, reform of the Calendar, etc.)
Of course if anybody wants to bring back these devotions in his/her own life, I’m all for it. I chant the Liturgy of the Hours in Latin Gregorian chant every day, I honestly find that this, along with the Sunday obligation (when we could still observe it pre-pandemic) occupies most of the devotional space I have available if I’m to have a life.
That is no longer the case. I think fasting in Lent and abstaining on Fridays is already hard enough in our secular world.
I’m actually very happy with the simplifications of Vatican II (liturgical reform, reform of the Calendar, etc.)
Of course if anybody wants to bring back these devotions in his/her own life, I’m all for it. I chant the Liturgy of the Hours in Latin Gregorian chant every day, I honestly find that this, along with the Sunday obligation (when we could still observe it pre-pandemic) occupies most of the devotional space I have available if I’m to have a life.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Not sure how this is even difficult any more in a world chock-full of secular diets and secular vegetarianism/ veganism. Meatless food is available almost everywhere, even if it’s nothing more than a plate of French fries.
If one presents faith practice to kids as “here’s this difficult thing” they’ll think it’s difficult. If it’s presented as just something people normally do, like brushing their teeth, they’ll accept it.
Rogation Days as practiced in the British Isles strongly linked to agricultural lifestyles. Ember Days observed the changing of the seasons. I find the link to the earth, God’s creation, to be comforting. I would imagine some families and some kids might feel the same if they’re into ecology and such. If one is just doing rituals out of context without any cultural connection, it makes less sense.
CF_Mathews
Patron
This disarray of a Church is not what Christ wanted. We were supposed to all be one. We need to look to the future and create something unified, which respects both the old and the new. I feel this is where things must end up during the period of peace Our Lady of Fatima predicted. I believe we are now experiencing a purification which will eliminate the cafeteria Catholics and call back those who see they have taken the Faith for granted. But I don’t believe the process will be an easy one.
EVERYONE: DONT FORGET THE MINOR ROGATION DAYS MAY 18-20!
CF_Mathews
Patron
To avoid confusion, please note, this post refers to April 25th.
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OraLabora
Guest
I think the Church will always be a messy place. It needs to be if it is to save souls. As Pope Francis more or less says it is not a resort for the righteous but a hospital for wounded souls. I’m not sure I could stand to be in a place made up of only “pure” people. In any event none of us will be really pure until we get to heaven after a good scrub down in purgatory.
Messiness and “cafeteria” Catholics are nothing new. I read from the Church Fathers every day at the Office of Readings, and the Church has always had schisms and heresies to deal with. Our “pick and choose” Catholics of today were the indifferent Catholics of the '50s out having a smoke on the church steps during Mass, and were the heretics denying the humanity of Jesus 1000 years ago or the Jansenists fostering despair. Many were there simply because it was the social convention to do so.
In any event I’m quite happy with the current calendar and liturgy, I’m particularly drawn to the Liturgy of the Hours; it is much easier to follow than the pre-Conciliar Divine Office with the simpler calendar and is well-adapted to the laity, dialling down clericalism by a notch.
Messiness and “cafeteria” Catholics are nothing new. I read from the Church Fathers every day at the Office of Readings, and the Church has always had schisms and heresies to deal with. Our “pick and choose” Catholics of today were the indifferent Catholics of the '50s out having a smoke on the church steps during Mass, and were the heretics denying the humanity of Jesus 1000 years ago or the Jansenists fostering despair. Many were there simply because it was the social convention to do so.
In any event I’m quite happy with the current calendar and liturgy, I’m particularly drawn to the Liturgy of the Hours; it is much easier to follow than the pre-Conciliar Divine Office with the simpler calendar and is well-adapted to the laity, dialling down clericalism by a notch.
CF_Mathews
Patron
You make some good points. Thanks for the robust conversation!
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