This is not entirely true. Chinese medicine changed its spiritual qualities when China went communist. At this time the whole eighth chapter of the Divine Husbandsman’s [guide to medicinal plants] was taken out as it had to do with metaphysical things.
), when the mandated punishment is lack of freedom to go home. His punishment was to be banned from heaven. Later he was cursed, etc.The chuch of the great and powerful N/A. In the beggining there was N. N begot A and he saw that it was good…
You can also easily come by UFO abduction stories as well, or lochness monster sightings, or any of the myriad of scams and superstitous nonsense that people peddle for whatever reason. As for past dealings with the occult, I have many first hand experiences. From the most ancient middle eastern wizardry to the writings of Alister Crowley and Anton LeVey. These texts included everything from conjuring demons to do your bidding, to opening seven gates of Hell. Nothing profound or prolific ever occured. Even in the presence of ones who claim to be masters of these arts, results were usually little more than speculation. It is a con, and I am sorry if that is not what you guys wanted to hear me say. The people that practice these arcane “arts” are usually losers that try to compensate by controlling the divine powers, but their lives will usually reflect little if any power or control. If they ARE controlling demons they do a terrible job of getting what they want, or showing any proof that they did anything other than waste candles and inscense.
Well I hope you have some finishers because these fail to convince me. If you read the verses in Mt 9 he was curing people of ailments. As I said before, certain emotional disorders and physiological disorders were thought of as demons in those days. Emotional problems like tourette’s, incoherant speech (babbling), and epilepsy were thought of as demons. In fact that is exactly what Mt 17:14 is about…an epileptic child…That Jesus cast the “demons” out were probably the words of the narrator. Anyone can cast seizures out…if you stand there long enough, it will go away. In fact, I can cure these same demons, and so can any acupuncturist. I can stop a seizure at anytime, and I do not invoke holy powers to do it…if is truly a demon, then how is this possible?
This is what I was getting from it to, more of an allegory than a scapegoat.Peace!
Thanks But for Grace, I was just about to go look for some verses, but I see you took care of that for me.
To start I should say that I have a master’s in traditional chinese medicine, and I am one year away from my O.M.D. so the rudimentary explainations and over simplifications are not neccessary. If I had posted that a demon is one form of a shen disturbance, or phlegm misting the orifices of the heart, do you think that anyone would have continued reading? And your explaination that communism is what stopped this line of thinking is proposterous. The medicine had evolved, just as their understanding of sickness. Just as they had the huang hun lun then they moved to five elements and eight principals. The symptoms and manifestations of “demons” did not simply disappear, but were rather reclassified as illness became understood. It is true that the communist party ruled out books that contained divine formulas and such, but the same knowledge is preserved in various texts of different names. Just as kung-fu was outlawed yet people can still practice wushu, because comrades should not fight comrades, but in wushu there is no opponent…kung fu is preserved but in a slightly different form. There were no demons, just people that did not understand sickness.
Yes interesting thing that. How does Satan appear befoe God at will. And if Satan is the root of all evil, why does the lord not slay him, or at least see through his obvious goading?
Yeah…with us. If he is the second most perfect being (well this raises many questions like why was his instinct to rebel?..) and he is sent here to live out forever…we have got to be like fingernails on a chalkboard…I can barely stand half these people running around and I am no where near perfect
Think about it…you have knowledge of some of the most obscure and arcane secrets of the universe…and all day every day you have to listen to people blather on about trips to the mall, meaningless realationships, or what couch looks good in their living room…I want to hang myself right now just thinking about an ETERNITY of that
I said almost the same thing to my friend the other day.
Jews don’t claim to know what the Messiah will reveal, but they do believe that he will be a great teacher with great insight into God’s plan and the Law. One thing you have to keep in mind about Jewish tradition is that they don’t tend to speak on that which isn’t revealed, and don’t have too many expectations on what WILL be revealed (with the notable exception of Kabbalah, which is a fringe thing by definition, which isn’t to say that it’s a bad thing). They do discuss their opinions, and boy does Judaism contain a lot of opinions, but very little, if anything, is settled Jewish Tradition about the content of future revelations.
Some people take the passage in Isaiah you are mentioning as refering to Satan, but it is actually directly refering to a Babylonian king. At most it is a “type” to the Fall of Satan, meaning it mirrors it. In the context, however, it is plainly an insult towards an evil king. Jews don’t recognize it as pertaining to the Satan at all.
Tell that to Jesus and the Apostles, then. I didn’t talk about Satan or write it all downSometimes Ghosty it’s quality not quanity that counts
I don’t know what to say. You are right, the so called occultists that you were around sound like they were losers, or at least not very skilled. Unfortunately I have not been so blessed as you as to witness such a stelar streak of failed attempts. I have seen things that should not be.
No. What you have provided is one case of explaination, meaning greed caused corruption. The second argument is speculation and scapegoating.
Both are just speculation.
Self-conflicting argument.
Not really. Especially when you consider that I am not a christian. I am merely trying to discover the root of the diffussion of responsibility tradition that seems to exist today, but not in OT.
I have studied both. You must first set the foundation before building a house. The fact is that the OT is considerably more voluminous than NT, therefore to understand your view I need to know about the transition from OT to NT, and how your traditions evolved.
The solution to this one should be evident…don’t read this post.
Ah thank you for clarifying. I was admittedly using a protestant interpretation, I mistook this as the universal christian view. Thanks for the correction Ghosty.
Touche. Maybe I willTell that to Jesus and the Apostles, then. I didn’t talk about Satan or write it all down
What sort of things have you seen exactly? Was it luck that I witnessed no success? Or was it a skeptical mindset? The people were proposed masters of the black arts, everything from voodoo priests to people claiming to possess the “true” necronomicon. All were imposters. A certain level of belief was required to achieve “results”. If their magic were true, it would prove itself by virtue of it’s deeds. That has yet to happen. The only way that these occultist survive is fleecing tourists, and recieving aid from secret societies and such (hellfire club and the like). If they had true power, could they not create wealth. or seize it from an enemy? Perhaps they should be reviled for offering false hope to people, but feared? I think not.
Your first and biggest mistake. Trust Protestants when they say Jesus lived, and nothing beyond that. By definition they aren’t really in touch with Judeo-Christian history
I wouldn’t call it luck, I’d call it the benefit of hanging out with charlatans. Personally I’m skeptical of ANYONE who claims to be able to call up and bind demons. The only people in Scripture who were able to command demons were the holy, and most people who walk around claiming to be able to do so aren’t paragons of Judeo-Christian virtue by any stretch.
Oh pike off Ghosty, I said I was sorryYour first and biggest mistake. Trust Protestants when they say Jesus lived, and nothing beyond that. By definition they aren’t really in touch with Judeo-Christian history
“Benefit” …heh. I used to live in New Orleans and I currently have access to some of these people in San Fran… these people are nothing. The very nature of their “powers” is laughable…but they too trace their traditions to the earliest times and use text to support this. I have yet to meet a priest who has performed any comparable rituals, including exorcism. So as for the “holy” weilding these powers I have yet to confront one.
Well I guess I too am guilty here as I did go to their rituals hoping to at least see something. I think that curiosity into things of this nature is only natural, especially when confronted with these suppossed “wizards” on a daily basis.
Yeah, notice the quotations in the original statment. I was curious if anyone would get that. Of course it would be you. If you like Lovecraft, you might like his inspiration and the true creator of the necronomicon myth, Alister Crowley. It is nice to find a place with some well read people, good job GhostyBTW, I find it funny that people claim to possess the “real” Necronomicon, and I’m sure Mr. Lovecraft would be too. He must be spinning in his grave whenever some twit claims to hold a real copy of his fictional, and self-contradictory, invention
I have no love for Crowley. At least Lovecraft didn’t believe his own nonsense, and made it very clear that he was a fiction writer. Crowley seems like a sad man who took himself too seriously.
as an epileptic, this really bothers me. you are the only person i’ve ever heard claim this power. if you can truly stop a seizure at any time, i hope that you are using your power on a regular basis. but am inclined to think you are cruel for not sharing this power so that your brothers and sisters no longer have to suffer from damage caused when we thrash around uncontrollably. right now, i’m taking medicine twice a day that we really don’t ‘know’ is working except that i’m not seizing. and if i do, we adjust my meds and hope that’ll work. i’d rather have the people around me just stop the seizures if they occur. btw, 1) does your power undo any damage caused before you stopped it and 2) is the patient still worn out after or are they unaffected by the seizure?
Well I assure you I am not the only person to claim this ability. If you had read a few more lines you would have read that any acupuncturist could take care of that for you. You seem to be supporting the demon theory, so why not have a priest exorcise the demon? Or try both suggestions and see which has the best results? I am sorry to hear about your condition, but the meds you take are not designed to make you well, just prevent your symptoms. It would be in your best interest to seek an alternative therapy. Do your own research and draw your own conclusions, but just try something else for your own sake. In any case if the ancient tradition still holds true, how do pharmacuticals aid you in controlling your possession.
Ha, do not let my anti-charisma fool you into passing false judgement on me. I heal people every chance I get. When one of my neighbors gets sick or hurt, I tell them I need the practice so they don’t feel bad about recieving a free treatment. If I know someone can’t afford to pay, I don’t charge them for the visit. I love nothing more than to end the suffering of all those around me when I can. I don’t know what prompted you to think that I am uncharitable, or selfish, but you don’t really know me and if you did, you find that I am quite the contrary of your depiction. I know I have a very confrontational and insensitive style of debate, and I apologize to you if I offended you. It was not my intention to divert to my own non-divine “healing powers”, but simply to point out that epilepsy as demons is a cultural reference from the time of christ and probably an interpretation of the narrator. If it were truly demons that caused your condition, how could non-holy entities such as acupuncturists and meds control these demonic forces?