Satan is real

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Victorious said:
:confused::confused::confused:
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… my dear friend …

… waht :confused: r u refering to , o’m happy to talk but not argue , if u r more specific i’ll reply , what i say is partiallly my own theory but worthy of consideration i assure you , just talk if yoiu want …

… god bless …

… john …
 
John_Russell_Jr said:
… we are right now all that we will be eternally and forever , this is because we are in now where all is present at once - not time , with satan and his cohorts whilst they are our ultimate foes and worst enemies now
me here. We are living in time. Could you please expand on this thought?]

, given they are now what they will be forever and there will be change:confused: , if they are restored beyond hell to being the angels their meant to be when we all do a stint in the garden of eden they are now what they will be then - holy angels , but for now they are our worst enemy , we should love them not only given this but because we are loving them as they will be forever - who knows what other changes and titles will occur for them
[Are you saying here that you believe that Satan and the other fallen angels will get a second chance?? That’s how it sounds.]

, but hell = infinite suffering to varying degrees so avoid them like the plague whilst they are so insanely evil and sick , we are living love and our purpose is to just " love " god , everyone and everything - even demons - but steer clear of them for your own good absolutely , we love for our own health and sanity , but must be as simple as god and wise as the serpent simultaneously , hope it helps dear friend …

… bless you 👍🙂 …

… john …
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Yes, Reginator, I am totally lost. And it is not the Church’s teaching that the devils get a shot at repentance. Quite the contrary.
 
** Dear The Reginator**

me here. We are living in time. Could you please expand on this thought?]

… there is no time in our world here or any world , we just think there is , we only have a concept of time because we can measure it , god was able to become a man , move , change continually in our world because we are in - now - and in -now- all is present at once so there is never really any change at all , it just seems so …

amd when all is present at once despite the fact it seems to unfold slowly you are all you will ever be right now , if this is so the word has been flesh from all eternity and can change again as much as god likes and there is never really any change - because all is present at once … i can explain more later if needed …

[Are you saying here that you believe that Satan and the other fallen angels will get a second chance?? That’s how it sounds.]

yes , beyong heaven and hell after the resurrection the damned will have to undergo infinite suffering to varying degrees if they have not taken advantage of christs salvific work then they will be given an opportunity after being restored to sanity of returning to the garden of eden for a stint with the blessed or not - they will not be capable of saying no , there is a lot of theory hat goes behind this let me know if you want to hear it , avoid hell at all costs though as infinite suffering to varying degrees is not pleasant , god has been made into and turned into hell — he does not want this , if you want an explanation i will later …

… god bless you 👍🙂 …

… john …
 
Victorious
One should not become obsessed with hell; but is having no time for hell quite consistent with the mind of the Church? Why does the Church place before us for our meditation the Four Last Things (death, judgment, hell, heaven)?
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Death, Judgement, Hell and Heaven are the teachings of the Church, but meditate on them?

I’ll meditate on Jesus Christ, who is the source of my salvation.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Death, Judgement, Hell and Heaven are the teachings of the Church, but meditate on them?

I’ll meditate on Jesus Christ, who is the source of my salvation.

Jim
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Yes, we are to meditate on them. What can you do that is more worthwhile than meditate on the teachings of the Church, which were given to us by Jesus Christ? Why else does He give them to us, if not to think about and reflect on, so that we can obey Him? In fact, St. Thomas More says that meditating on the Four Last Things is the surest remedy against sin. Do you know better than St. Thomas More?

For that matter, do you know better than the Holy Spirit, who filled Scripture with exhortations to meditate on the laws of God, and ponder all His works?
 
Every story requires a bad guy that is plotting against the good guy.
 
Victorious said:
Yes, we are to meditate on them. What can you do that is more worthwhile than meditate on the teachings of the Church, which were given to us by Jesus Christ? Why else does He give them to us, if not to think about and reflect on, so that we can obey Him? In fact, St. Thomas More says that meditating on the Four Last Things is the surest remedy against sin. Do you know better than St. Thomas More?

For that matter, do you know better than the Holy Spirit, who filled Scripture with exhortations to meditate on the laws of God, and ponder all His works?
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I don’t know. I’m a contemplative and in all the instructions given by St.Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross, its our Beloved Savior Jesus Christ whom we spend our time with, not fears of hell.

Jim
 
kamaan said:
“The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist.”
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His next trick was the new culture of death, that says that we don’t exist, that we are merely physical creatures, arrived at through random science, born without reason, to die without life and to decay into nothingness from meaninglessness.
 
John_Russell_Jr said:
** Dear The Reginator**

me here. We are living in time. Could you please expand on this thought?]

… there is no time in our world here or any world , we just think there is , we only have a concept of time because we can measure it , god was able to become a man , move , change continually in our world because we are in - now - and in -now- all is present at once so there is never really any change at all , it just seems so …

amd when all is present at once despite the fact it seems to unfold slowly you are all you will ever be right now , if this is so the word has been flesh from all eternity and can change again as much as god likes and there is never really any change - because all is present at once … i can explain more later if needed …

[Are you saying here that you believe that Satan and the other fallen angels will get a second chance?? That’s how it sounds.]

yes , beyong heaven and hell after the resurrection the damned will have to undergo infinite suffering to varying degrees if they have not taken advantage of christs salvific work then they will be given an opportunity after being restored to sanity of returning to the garden of eden for a stint with the blessed or not - they will not be capable of saying no , there is a lot of theory hat goes behind this let me know if you want to hear it , avoid hell at all costs though as infinite suffering to varying degrees is not pleasant , god has been made into and turned into hell — he does not want this , if you want an explanation i will later …

… god bless you 👍🙂 …

… john …
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Sorry John … these ideas you have presented seem, well, rather outlandish to me.

We know that God created all things, including time. At the incarnation He entered time for about 33 years. God certainly dwells outside of time, we do not. We live in God’s creation, including time.

As to your thoughts on the final fate of Satan, where did you get that from? It doesn’t sound like Church teaching to me. :confused::confused:

Dominus vobiscum.
– Reg
 
The_Reginator said:
Sorry John … these ideas you have presented seem, well, rather outlandish to me.

We know that God created all things, including time. At the incarnation He entered time for about 33 years. God certainly dwells outside of time, we do not. We live in God’s creation, including time.

As to your thoughts on the final fate of Satan, where did you get that from? It doesn’t sound like Church teaching to me. :confused::confused:

Dominus vobiscum.
– Reg
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… my dear friend …

… it’s common knowledge there is no time , it is a human concept made up , i’ve explained it in other threads of mine , as to the other the idea it does not come from satan - i can tell you that much , it comes from me and my own understanding of reality and truth which may be beyond that of the curent understanding of the church at present , i’ve explained a fair bit about it here and there in other posts , i don’t much feel like debating it you can look if you wanted to …

… god bless …

… john …
 
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John_Russell_Jr said:
… it’s common knowledge there is no time , it is a human concept made up , i’ve explained it in other threads of mine , as to the other the idea it does not come from satan - i can tell you that much , it comes from me and my own understanding of reality and truth which may be beyond that of the curent understanding of the church at present , i’ve explained a fair bit about it here and there in other posts , i don’t much feel like debating it you can look if you wanted to …
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Um…you really think you are more advanced than the two thousand year old Church founded by Jesus Christ?

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John_Russell_Jr said:
… my dear friend …

… it’s common knowledge there is no time , it is a human concept made up , i’ve explained it in other threads of mine , as to the other the idea it does not come from satan - i can tell you that much , it comes from me and my own understanding of reality and truth which may be beyond that of the curent understanding of the church at present , i’ve explained a fair bit about it here and there in other posts , i don’t much feel like debating it you can look if you wanted to …

… god bless …

… john …
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Our understanding of reality and truth MUST come from the Church, not the other way around!!!]

As a Catholic you must start your thinking with the teachings that God has given His Church. Alone we can only come up with partial truths, and often falsehoods.

Maybe you should talk to an orthodox Catholic priest about these ideas.

Dominus vobiscum,
Reg.
 
woodland_poet said:
His next trick was the new culture of death, that says that we don’t exist, that we are merely physical creatures, arrived at through random science, born without reason, to die without life and to decay into nothingness from meaninglessness.
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Utter rubbish. Cite who makes these claims. You are misunderstanding your opponent to your own detriment.
 
StrawberryJam said:
Utter rubbish. Cite who makes these claims. You are misunderstanding your opponent to your own detriment.
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… my dear friend …

… why should he or anyone have to cite anyoe else , what was said seems rather brilliant to me , as to proving anything - nothing can be proved by a human being except the human being exists ,and not who or what it is at all , and it can only prove this to itself — everything else including all we believe is based on faith , what he said is true in my opinion and very well said - but only god can prove anything apart from that one thing because absolute proof can only come with the proof of everything and anything in perfect consistency and the theory to such proof is infinite and each most infinitesiamal part of that theory is infinite and on and on it goes ad infinitum , only god can produce perfect theory to prove anything and everything and only the mind of god can come up with , understand and prove that theory to itself , human beings need faith for everything - not being god , faith is believing something we cannot prove , i have spoken more on this elsewhere here , you need faith friend … but more to the point you need to understand you have faith , but sick faith with a fallen mind , but use what you have anyway and do your best , the normal modus operandi for all human thinking and believing is faith - just try to understand and accept this dear friend …

… god bless 👍🙂 …

… john …
 
John_Russell_Jr said:
… my dear friend …

… why should he or anyone have to cite anyoe else , what was said seems rather brilliant to me , as to proving anything - nothing can be proved by a human being except the human being exists ,and not who or what it is at all , and it can only prove this to itself — everything else including all we believe is based on faith , what he said is true in my opinion and very well said - but only god can prove anything apart from that one thing because absolute proof can only come with the proof of everything and anything in perfect consistency and the theory to such proof is infinite and each most infinitesiamal part of that theory is infinite and on and on it goes ad infinitum , only god can produce perfect theory to prove anything and everything and only the mind of god can come up with , understand and prove that theory to itself , human beings need faith for everything - not being god , faith is believing something we cannot prove , i have spoken more on this elsewhere here , you need faith friend … but more to the point you need to understand you have faith , but sick faith with a fallen mind , but use what you have anyway and do your best , the normal modus operandi for all human thinking and believing is faith - just try to understand and accept this dear friend …

… god bless 👍🙂 …

… john …
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The mathematical expression of the equation of time can be written. Its a known in physics and mathmatics.

Anyway as far as what you saying here, above, its all good. But when you say “use what you have and do your best”. Well theres a better plan than that.

What we have in Faith, is a suprernaturally imposed virtue from the moment of Baptism.

It then becomes our responsibility to nurture this Grace though devotion to God to preserve it. The way to do this, is the path he gave of us which is the Catholic Church.

Each one of us has an obligation to preserve this Faith.

The basis of our salvation is our Faith. But Faith by itself isn’t enough. Because it becomes subject to many varibles outside of it.

Then the question remains, how do we keep and build on the Faith which we already have. To come to the closest possible unity we can with Christ.

We’ll we go with that which we know works. The Catholic Church and its teachings. Mass on Sunday, don’t offend God. Pray the Rosary etc.

When we are following this path. All those human questions, many of which have a purpose to place our soul at risk. Well they become clearer and clearer. The Truth becomes obvious. Then some things your positive you have right? You may in fact come to see differently. But Faith in God won’t change and it will grow to absolute if we follow the proven, worn path that leads to God and eternal life.

My brother its not by chance we are all here.

God Bless
 
GaryTaylor said:
The mathematical expression of the equation of time can be written. Its a known in physics and mathmatics.

Anyway as far as what you saying here, above, its all good. But when you say “use what you have and do your best”. Well theres a better plan than that.

What we have in Faith, is a suprernaturally imposed virtue from the moment of Baptism.

It then becomes our responsibility to nurture this Grace though devotion to God to preserve it. The way to do this, is the path he gave of us which is the Catholic Church.

Each one of us has an obligation to preserve this Faith.

The basis of our salvation is our Faith. But Faith by itself isn’t enough. Because it becomes subject to many varibles outside of it.

Then the question remains, how do we keep and build on the Faith which we already have. To come to the closest possible unity we can with Christ.

We’ll we go with that which we know works. The Catholic Church and its teachings. Mass on Sunday, don’t offend God. Pray the Rosary etc.

When we are following this path. All those human questions, many of which have a purpose to place our soul at risk. Well they become clearer and clearer. The Truth becomes obvious. Then some things your positive you have right? You may in fact come to see differently. But Faith in God won’t change and it will grow to absolute if we follow the proven, worn path that leads to God and eternal life.

My brother its not by chance we are all here.

God Bless
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… my dear friend …

… there is no time and none can ever prove it , it is simply a concept developed by man to measure change , i grant it is useful to have such a tool , but in reality we are in " now " as god is and in " now " all is present at once - so our whole eternity and all that will be and happen and all we will become we are " now " , it seems like time is unfolding to us but because there is no time it is all happening and present at once , it is actually like we have been here for all eternity because there is no time - true , we see change and presume there is time but not so , in " now " nothing has any beginning or end - it just " is " and without time how can anything begin or end ??? it cannot , there is no beginning or end without time , but there is change - we know this as with jesus becoming a man in time and changing , but when you know " now " and " is " and understand there is no time although there seems to be so much change there never really is any change at all — a mystery to us , but god has and will never change full stop even when he creates , because in " now " although there appears to be change all is present at once and there is never any change , a hard concept to grasp i know but physics and maths have a lot to learn …

… with faith man had perfect faith before the fall , now man is fallen his faith is very imperfect and hence the need to continually pray for and work to increase your faith , the supernatural gift of faith was perfect pre-fall , and can gadually be regained to a small degree , i was talking more about faith in general but agree mostly here …

… thx for your reply …

… god bless 👍🙂 …

… john …
 
StrawberryJam said:
Utter rubbish. Cite who makes these claims. You are misunderstanding your opponent to your own detriment.
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We see that fallen light from the heavens known as satan in the current culture of death and we know that death is a lie and one that he tells with great liberty. We know that he who tells the lie is a liar and that he is the father of lies and murderer from the beginning.

We are now told that man is not created in the image of a loving God, but that he is a happenstance by way of amino acids and proteins that meet and form in some primordial ooze. We are told that man is not lit from within by the powers of faith and reason, but by evolutionary events, guided by the present but rather arbitrary “laws” of science, which without faith in an author, are little more than conditions.

We are told that the ancient primate has become something more like common man in us and that now, given the power to choose good and evil, no longer need these supportive devices of religion. God need be kicked off the stage of human history and development so that man can assume the former reponsibilities of the supreme and reigning deity.

Now we kill the unborn child in the womb, no longer knitted in the womb and known from the beginning of time, but a clump of cells to be taken or disposed of at whim. Man once guided in his development by this Darwinisn is now the guide and propriator who will choose who and more appropriately what will live and which human persons (no longer the apple of God’s eye but merely finite organisms) will live and which will die or be killed and disposed of.

Who makes these claims that we don’t exist, that we are merely physical creatures, arrived at through random science, born without reason, to die without life and to decay into nothingness from meaninglessness? Satan himself, through dimmed minds that know reason without the guiding light of faith in the God who is Supreme above all created things because He is the Creator of them. A madman is not someone who has lost his reason. A madman is someone who has lost everything but his reason.

For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the cleverness of the clever I will thwart.” Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. -1 Corinthians 19-26
 
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