Satan - needs God's permission?

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billpenn

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Hi all. Wondering about your thoughts on the idea that Satan needs permission from God to harm somebody…

Call to mind the following:

Job 1:8-12 ***8 And the Lord said to him: Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a simple and upright man, and fearing God, and avoiding evil? 9 And Satan answering, said: Doth Job fear God in vain? 10 Hast not thou made a fence for him, and his house, and all his substance round about, blessed the works of his hands, and his possession hath increased on the earth? 11 But stretch forth thy hand a little, and touch all that he hath, and see if he blesseth thee not to thy face. 12 Then the Lord said to Satan: Behold, all that he hath is in thy hand: only put not forth thy hand upon his person. And Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.
In the above case, Satan does not act upon Job until God gives all that Job has to his power. Moreover, Satan sticks to the boundaries God lays down - his property only, don’t touch his body.

and:

Luke 22:31 ***31 “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; ***

Here Satan demans permission to attack Peter - he could only be asking permission of God.

What do you guys think?
 
Bill,

There are two or three different “wills of God” ranging from what He will permit to what He actively wants and pursues. Anything Satan does is within the boundaries of what God permits.

Your quotes certainly put the kabosh on the idea that God and Satan are equal and opposite. They are nothing of the sort.
  • Liberian
 
Its interesting to note the Jewish interpretation of Satan. Unlike christians who view the relationship between God and Satan as being Zoroastrian and Dualistic in nature. Ultimately being antagonistic… Jewish view satan as an important component for the furthering of God’s plan not against it. In fact the hebrew word for Satan translates into Hinderer. The Jewish concept of Satan takes on the hebrew word *Yetzer Hara *meaning Evil Inclination. Satan tempts us so that we have a choice between following God and not following him. In other words Satan isnt in competition with God for believers nor is he a rebelious angel who disobeyed God and was cast into hell according to Jewish theology.

[kosherjudaism.org/forum/link.php?url=http://www.beingjewish.com/faqs/conflict.html check this link out](http://www.kosherjudaism.org/forum/link.php?url=http://www.beingjewish.com/faqs/conflict.html check this link out)

check out this link for more info.
 
I remember seeing some paintings a few years ago in a chapel…about the last judgement. There were angels there lifting up te dead and there were demons there also doing God’s work and punishing people under the same command as the angels.

I’d never thought about the two forces being one motion before and it was something i never noticed in the painting straight away either.

this thread reminded me of it.
 
I would guess that satan would need permission to hurt someone who was in God’s favor/protection.
 
That is why it is in the Lord’s prayer, “and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil”. Satan is only allowed to tempt.
 
nomolos said:
That is why it is in the Lord’s prayer, “and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil”. Satan is only allowed to tempt.
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Doesn’t it seem a bit odd to be praying to God not to lead us into temptation? Why would we fear that God would do this?
 
Valke2 said:
Doesn’t it seem a bit odd to be praying to God not to lead us into temptation? Why would we fear that God would do this?
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This is discussed in the , paragraphs 2846-2849Catechism of the Catholic Church, which says in part:It is difficult to translate the Greek verb used by a single English word: the Greek means both “do not allow us to enter into temptation” and “do not let us yield to temptation.” God cannot be tempted by evil and he himself tempts no one;" on the contrary, he wants to set us free from evil.
 
When one is born of the Holy Spirit they are transfered from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light. Bottom line, to take control of a subject one must get permission from their king. Satan ineffect is the “king” of the kingdom of darkness and as such can possess his subjects or harm them if he wishes. But, will Satan inflect pain on one his own? I think even Satan knows that pain drives people towards God. But, I think he will inflect pain on his subjects if he sees an oppurtunity to keep one blind to the gospel.
 
Valke2 said:
Doesn’t it seem a bit odd to be praying to God not to lead us into temptation? Why would we fear that God would do this?
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Why would Jesus tell his disciples to “pray that they not be put to the test”? When he found then sleeping, in the garden, the night he was betrayed.
 
Valke2 said:
Doesn’t it seem a bit odd to be praying to God not to lead us into temptation? Why would we fear that God would do this?
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It’s old English. Like ‘forget me not’. You’re asking God to lead you away from temptation. It’s just the way people used to word it.

It’s like when Jesus says, “Saul, why persecutest thou me?”. In modern English, the wording would look like, “Saul, persecuting you me?” It makes little sense to modern English speakers. It’s just the old sentence structure.
 
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