Satan rules the world? - Humbug!

[JRKH]

Occasionally I will see or hear the comment that “the evil one rules the world”…and I while I don’t doubt his power to seduce…I don’t understand how anyone can grant such authority to him - even in opposition - when Jesus clearly says in Mt 28:18 that it is HE who has all authority in heaven and on earth.
16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."
Based on this, I think that it is a serious error to say that the evil one “rules the world”.

Comments? Insights? Counterpoints?

Peace
James

 

[RPRPsych]

Occasionally I will see or hear the comment that “the evil one rules the world”…and I while I don’t doubt his power to seduce…I don’t understand how anyone can grant such authority to him - even in opposition - when Jesus clearly says in Mt 28:18 that it is HE who has all authority in heaven and on earth.
16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."
Based on this, I think that it is a serious error to say that the evil one “rules the world”.

Comments? Insights? Counterpoints?

Peace
James

Excellent and brave post. (I would use a stronger word than “Humbug”, but let me be polite.) However, be prepared to be pounced on a bit (not by me!)…

My take on the issue is this:

The Kingship of Christ is official Church teaching.

I think this confusion arises because of a misunderstanding of the word “world” here.

First of all, God created the world, Christ redeemed it, and the Holy Spirit sanctifies it. (The Spirit was “moving over the face of the waters”) right at the beginning. Satan, a created being, wasn’t even around when the world was made. So to say he rules the world - as in the cosmos, the universe, or even the planet Earth - would be theologically and Scripturally false.

However, in many texts of the New Testament, the world “World” is used in a different sense - to refer to the non-Christian part of the world, or those forces in the world that are hostile or opposed to the Gospel of Christ. Satan is called “Prince of the World”, but a Prince is not at all the same as a King; in fact, in this case, he’s an evil prince with vain dreams of usurping the power that only belongs to God.

And Christ clearly says “he has conquered the world”, meaning that any apparent “victory” of Satan’s is illusory. The “children of the Evil One” (meaning his works, and those men who choose to abandon God and follow him) will remain in the Kingdom until the end of time, but they will all face judgment.

Those who say Satan rules the world, and God rules the Heavens, are not Catholics. They’re either Gnostics, Manicheans or Zoroastrians.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

The idea of Satan as the ruler of this world is extremely and inescapably Biblical. Consider John 12:31 for example:

“Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast out;”

This clearly refers to Satan.

Satan is most certainly the ruler of this fallen world, as long as it remains fallen that is. Once it fell through the sin of Adam the world became a part of the Empire of Hell, as traditional Catholic prayers have called it, and it remains a part of that Empire as long as it remains unredeemed.

God is also the ruler of all Creation in a way that far surpasses that of any created ruler, human or demonic. Furthermore all evil rulers will be put under the feet of the Son of God. There is no contradiction here, and I’m perplexed why the confusion keeps cropping up in these forums.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Excellent and brave post. (I would use a stronger word than “Humbug”, but let me be polite.) However, be prepared to be pounced on a bit (not by me!)…

My take on the issue is this:

The Kingship of Christ is official Church teaching.

I think this confusion arises because of a misunderstanding of the word “world” here.

First of all, God created the world, Christ redeemed it, and the Holy Spirit sanctifies it. (The Spirit was “moving over the face of the waters”) right at the beginning. Satan, a created being, wasn’t even around when the world was made. So to say he rules the world - as in the cosmos, the universe, or even the planet Earth - would be theologically and Scripturally false.

However, in many texts of the New Testament, the world “World” is used in a different sense - to refer to the non-Christian part of the world, or those forces in the world that are hostile or opposed to the Gospel of Christ. Satan is called “Prince of the World”, but a Prince is not at all the same as a King; in fact, in this case, he’s an evil prince with vain dreams of usurping the power that only belongs to God.

And Christ clearly says “he has conquered the world”, meaning that any apparent “victory” of Satan’s is illusory. The “children of the Evil One” (meaning his works, and those men who choose to abandon God and follow him) will remain in the Kingdom until the end of time, but they will all face judgment.

Those who say Satan rules the world, and God rules the Heavens, are not Catholics. They’re either Gnostics, Manicheans or Zoroastrians.

Some parts of this are answered implicitly in my reply to the OP. What I’d like to specifically address the tendency some people have to separate “the world” in the negative sense of the term from “the world” as a whole. I do not think there is any call for this. The world which God loved so much that he gave his only begotten Son is the fallen world that stands in need of redemption.

We can think of it in terms of the world’s most important component, humanity. The human race is, prior to redemption, fallen and evil and under the dominion of the Evil One. Yet God has love and pity even for our wretched species, so much so that he becomes man himself and dies for us and so redeems us from the dominion of the Devil. Yet the fallen world remains fallen and an enemy of God and of those God has ransomed out of it until the Second Coming, when the sheep will be separated from the goats and there will be a New Heaven and New Earth.

 

[JRKH]

The idea of Satan as the ruler of this world is extremely and inescapably Biblical. Consider John 12:31 for example:

“Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast out;”

This clearly refers to Satan.

This verse does satisfy…
The period in which is was spoken was right before Jesus passion and resurrection. So it would have been correct when spoke, but overtaken when Jesus said - “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me”…A post resurrection statement.

Now if you have a way to correlate these two statements I would love to hear it.

Satan is most certainly the ruler of this fallen world, as long as it remains fallen that is. Once it fell through the sin of Adam the world became a part of the Empire of Hell, as traditional Catholic prayers have called it, and it remains a part of that Empire as long as it remains unredeemed.

So are you saying that Christ’s resurrection did not redeem the world? (even though many in it remain unsaved)

God is also the ruler of all Creation in a way that far surpasses that of any created ruler, human or demonic. Furthermore all evil rulers will be put under the feet of the Son of God. There is no contradiction here, and I’m perplexed why the confusion keeps cropping up in these forums.

I’m perplexed too…
We recently celebrated the feast of “Christ the King” - King of what?..Jesus tells us that He has been given authority (Kingship) in heaven and on earth…So it should be clear that it is Jesus, not satan who is ruler of this world.
It is those who choose to serve satan therefore who are “treasonous”, as it were, for they stand in opposition to the rightful King of the world.

Peace
James

 

[WoundedIcon]

Yes, and in all reality the Christus Victor (Byzantine) view of the atonement wouldn’t make any sense if Satan didn’t have some kind of reign. In that view Jesus basically wins us back from Satan’s dominion.

 

[WoundedIcon]

I’m perplexed too…
We recently celebrated the feast of “Christ the King” - King of what?..Jesus tells us that He has been given authority (Kingship) in heaven and on earth…So it should be clear that it is Jesus, not satan who is ruler of this world.
It is those who choose to serve satan therefore who are “treasonous”, as it were, for they stand in opposition to the rightful King of the world.

Peace
James

Well, even when Hitler reigned Christ was still king, so the existence of a large reign of evil isn’t incompatible with Christ reigning simultaneously. Let’s not forget that the Scripture speaks of there being two kingdoms, the kingdom of Heaven which we’re brought into through baptism and which redeems us from the kingdom of darkness where Satan had obtained certain rights over us through our parents’ sin. A major part of Eastern soteriology focuses on this.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

This verse does satisfy…
The period in which is was spoken was right before Jesus passion and resurrection. So it would have been correct when spoke, but overtaken when Jesus said - “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me”…A post resurrection statement.

Now if you have a way to correlate these two statements I would love to hear it.

So are you saying that Christ’s resurrection did not redeem the world? (even though many in it remain unsaved)

I’m perplexed too…
We recently celebrated the feast of “Christ the King” - King of what?..Jesus tells us that He has been given authority (Kingship) in heaven and on earth…So it should be clear that it is Jesus, not satan who is ruler of this world.
It is those who choose to serve satan therefore who are “treasonous”, as it were, for they stand in opposition to the rightful King of the world.

Peace
James

Before the resurrection God was also in a very real sense the ruler of the world, yet we know Satan was also the ruler of the world. The two statements are not incompatible, because they were rulers in very different senses.

Even after the resurrection, the dominion of Satan has not ended in every single sense. The book of Revelation is proof enough of that. The Kingdom of God, the ransoming of Israel, the harrowing of hell, these things have come to pass, but sin and death still reign in this fallen world until the Second Coming. You could think of it like this: wherever created beings still exist in a state of evil and disorder, the Empire of Hell still stands. Wherever redemption and grace have come, there the Kingdom of God has already begun to subsist. But until Christ comes again the Church will always be a sign of contradiction, something hated by the world because it is not of the world, because the world is still, in a very real though not absolute sense, fallen and therefore under the dominion of Satan.

 

[Nita]

In regards to man, if one considers “world” to refer to the material part of God’s creation (material body) versus the spiritual/immaterial part (the soul), then one can see how Satan still rules “the world” since we are all still be subject to physical death.

 

[JRKH]

Well, even when Hitler reigned Christ was still king, so the existence of a large reign of evil isn’t incompatible with Christ reigning simultaneously. Let’s not forget that the Scripture speaks of there being two kingdoms, the kingdom of Heaven which we’re brought into through baptism and which redeems us from the kingdom of darkness where Satan had obtained certain rights over us through our parents’ sin. A major part of Eastern soteriology focuses on this.

I like how you put this…It speaks wonderfully to an aspect that I hoped would come out in this conversation. RPRPsych addressed this as well. That is, the need for understanding what is meant by “World” in a given context. Yes - Satan rules over the “world” of the ungodly and Christ rules those who are pleased to be His subjects.

The times when I have issues…and the reason I decided to post this (apparently well worn) topic, is when People use no use no “adjective”, no modifier, no explanatory context when they make the statement, "Satan rules the (or this) world.

This idea that you express above, of a reign of evil co-existing with Christ’s reign. That is - two opposing armies, one good, one evil - strikes me as possibly explained one of two ways.

1. The two armies are battling over earth - in which case had Christ conquered? Can’t say I care much for that idea…After all we are told that he did and now has authority given by the Father Himself.
2. Satan seeks to subvert as many as possible from true allegiance to the true King…This view places Christ squarely on the throne, but with a portion of his subjects in rebellion…I sort of prefer this view…

Of course neither of these are truly satisfying theologically…I’m sure others, like yourself, will offer more insights on this matter.

Peace
James

 

[Nita]

The following verses in Revelation follow right after the section that speaks of Our Lord’s incarnation and subsequent resurrection.Rev 12:7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 12:8 but they were defeated and** there was no longer any place for them in heaven**. 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world --** he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him**. 12:10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. 12:11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.

My understanding of the above passage is that satan was allowed access to the heavenly realm in order to accuse men of their sins to God. Access, at least for this purpose, ended with the redeeming death of Our Lord. His power/activity was completely taken away in the kingdom of heaven when Jesus redeemed us. Through the life of grace men could now receive into their souls, spiritual death was conquered; spiritual death was no longer the reigning condition for mortal men. And it is Christ who now reigns over all who have the life of grace in their souls - all in heaven, all in purgatory, and all on earth who are in the state of grace.

But satan and his demons were allowed in the eartly/material realm; they were allowed to rule over the material bodies of humans on earth. Thus we still experience pain, disease, death.

That is my take on how the 2 Scripture passages can be understood without any conflict.

 

[RPRPsych]

This idea that you express above, of a reign of evil co-existing with Christ’s reign. That is - two opposing armies, one good, one evil - strikes me as possibly explained one of two ways.

1. The two armies are battling over earth - in which case had Christ conquered? Can’t say I care much for that idea…After all we are told that he did and now has authority given by the Father Himself.
2. Satan seeks to subvert as many as possible from true allegiance to the true King…This view places Christ squarely on the throne, but with a portion of his subjects in rebellion…I sort of prefer this view…

Of course neither of these are truly satisfying theologically…I’m sure others, like yourself, will offer more insights on this matter.

Peace
James

While John 12 is clear, John 16 is also clear: in this world, we will have tribulation (because of our own fallen and sinful nature, because of others’ sins, and because of Satan), but Christ has vanquished the world.

I guess this is where St. Augustine’s concept of the “City of God” comes in. While in this world, the City can never fully be realized, it continues to grow against all odds, and will ultimately triumph over the “earthly city”. One contains the other, and will ultimately encompass the other. God’s rule is eternal; Satan’s “rule” is temporal, temporary and will end when he is cast into Hell.

For another example, consider the book of Job: Satan given “rule” over Job’s fate for quite a while - destroying his goods, his family, and ultimately his health - but he cannot do this without God’s permission, in order that a greater good may come. At the end of the book, Satan is nowhere to be found, God’s omnipotence is asserted, and Job has been vindicated once he repents and accepts God’s sovereignty.