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aborodki
Guest
Why would Satan tempt Jesus if he knew that Jesus was going to win anyway?
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diggerdomer
Guest
I don’t think he knew Jesus would win.Why would Satan tempt Jesus if he knew that Jesus was going to win anyway?
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Nathan_Wagar
Guest
An animal fights harder when it’s desperate.
Besides, Jesus still had a human nature. The angels were perfect and they fell. Maybe in some way Satan felt he had a shot.
Besides, Jesus still had a human nature. The angels were perfect and they fell. Maybe in some way Satan felt he had a shot.
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Zundrah
Guest
I think that this is a good example;An animal fights harder when it’s desperate.
Besides, Jesus still had a human nature. The angels were perfect and they fell. Maybe in some way Satan felt he had a shot.
revelation chapter 12
13When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
(He had already lost but he still wanted revenge).
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aborodki
Guest
I think Zundrah is right. Otherwise, Satan wouldn’t have fallen in the first place if he didn’t foresee the Passion and the Resurrection.
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diggerdomer
Guest
I’d look at it the other way…if Satan knew about the Passion and Resurrection wouldn’t have that made it more likely for him not to fall in the first place?I think Zundrah is right. Otherwise, Satan wouldn’t have fallen in the first place if he didn’t foresee the Passion and the Resurrection.
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Zundrah
Guest
I was pointing out that the dragon (satan) originally wanted to eat the child that she was about to give birth to (jesus) but even though he was taken straight up to heaven before he had the chance to eat him, he ran off and tried to kill the mother anyway. Which of course was pretty pointless. He wanted revenge because he had lost the war with the angels and had even be thrown down to earth, and then couldn’t eat the child.I’d look at it the other way…if Satan knew about the Passion and Resurrection wouldn’t have that made it more likely for him not to fall in the first place?
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Zundrah
Guest
Look here also;I think Zundrah is right. Otherwise, Satan wouldn’t have fallen in the first place if he didn’t foresee the Passion and the Resurrection.
revelation chapter 12
12Therefore rejoice, you heavens
and you who dwell in them!
**But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you! ** He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short."
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choy
Guest
and the passion and the resurrection wouldn’t have been necessary if Lucifer didn’t fall. no devil, no temptation in Eden, no sinI’d look at it the other way…if Satan knew about the Passion and Resurrection wouldn’t have that made it more likely for him not to fall in the first place?
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diggerdomer
Guest
I disagree. The book of Genesis, as I understand it, clearly indicates a recognition of human’s “fall” (sin). No mention of Satan or the devil there.and the passion and the resurrection wouldn’t have been necessary if Lucifer didn’t fall. no devil, no temptation in Eden, no sin
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James_S_Saint
Guest
Wasn’t there a “serpent” in the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
Eve was tempted in the garden to partake of the fruit of such knowledge. Because she partook of that fruit and more importantly that Ahdam also partook of that fruit, every generation from there on out was cursed to be born in the midst of the struggle created by such fruit having no choice but to be a part of it.
Jesus was also tempted because the nature of that serpent is to never stop trying. Jesus eventually taught that in order to stop the curse that was being passed from generation to generation, real Truth had to be loved, forgiveness, and the willingness to not fight back had to become the moral, else the struggling and fighting (the curse) would never end.
He established his church so as to allow people to not fight back and yet survive. The “waters” were “stilled”.
Eve was tempted in the garden to partake of the fruit of such knowledge. Because she partook of that fruit and more importantly that Ahdam also partook of that fruit, every generation from there on out was cursed to be born in the midst of the struggle created by such fruit having no choice but to be a part of it.
Jesus was also tempted because the nature of that serpent is to never stop trying. Jesus eventually taught that in order to stop the curse that was being passed from generation to generation, real Truth had to be loved, forgiveness, and the willingness to not fight back had to become the moral, else the struggling and fighting (the curse) would never end.
He established his church so as to allow people to not fight back and yet survive. The “waters” were “stilled”.
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LilyM
Guest
There’s no indication that Satan is all-knowing, unlike God. So like us, Satan presumably can only know as much as God reveals to him.
So the question is what did Satan know? God said in Eden that a seed of the woman would triumph over him. We can take it as read that he didn’t necessarily know that Jesus Christ was that seed.
So the question is what did Satan know? God said in Eden that a seed of the woman would triumph over him. We can take it as read that he didn’t necessarily know that Jesus Christ was that seed.
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PAboy57
Guest
Satan’s a hard worker and would never pass up a chance for winning the #1 soul in creation. Regardless what he knows is only speculation on our part. He does know that a soul can be had under the right situation so why not take a shot.
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annie678
Guest
I was just reading and thinking about this the other night.Why would Satan tempt Jesus if he knew that Jesus was going to win anyway?
The idea that Jesus Himself endured temptation I understand…
(Hebrews 2:18) Because He himself was tested through what He suffered, He is able to help those who are being tested.
It’s the idea that the Spirit lead Jesus to be tempted that I struggle with…
(Matthew 4:1) Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.
I also struggle with the words from the Lord’s Prayer…lead us not into temptation…
Why would we ask God to not lead us into temptation if He has no plans to do so? I realize that it is my lack of understanding that causes me to struggle with this. I know that God does not tempt us. I asked a priest once and he replied that it is a poor translation of Jesus’s words. It remains for me, however, a window of uncertainty with which Satan will sometimes tempt me to doubt. And therein might be my answer…to simply trust God.
Does anyone else wrestle with this??
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LilyM
Guest
‘Lead us not into temptation’ is apparently a very poor translation of the original language - remember Our Lord wasn’t speaking in English!I was just reading and thinking about this the other night.
The idea that Jesus Himself endured temptation I understand…
(Hebrews 2:18) Because He himself was tested through what He suffered, He is able to help those who are being tested.
It’s the idea that the Spirit lead Jesus to be tempted that I struggle with…
(Matthew 4:1) Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.
I also struggle with the words from the Lord’s Prayer…lead us not into temptation…
Why would we ask God to not lead us into temptation if He has no plans to do so? I realize that it is my lack of understanding that causes me to struggle with this. I know that God does not tempt us. I asked a priest once and he replied that it is a poor translation of Jesus’s words. It remains for me, however, a window of uncertainty with which Satan will sometimes tempt me to doubt. And therein might be my answer…to simply trust God.
Does anyone else wrestle with this??
I’ve been told a better translation would be ‘Do not allow us to be led into temptation’ - which is more consistent with the idea that God never Himself tempts people, and that He can prevent others from tempting us if it is His will.
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aborodki
Guest
It would go to the sin of pride. Also, angels cannot be redeemed because they knew the consequences of their disobedience.I’d look at it the other way…if Satan knew about the Passion and Resurrection wouldn’t have that made it more likely for him not to fall in the first place?
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patrick457
Guest
If I might add, the Greek peirasmon (usually rendered as “temptation”) and the Latin tentatio/temptatio is also rendered as ‘test’ or ‘trial’ (i.e. tribulation) - the Septuagint Deuteronomy 29:2 speaks of the plagues of Egypt as being “the great trials” (tous peirasmous tous megalous).‘Lead us not into temptation’ is apparently a very poor translation of the original language - remember Our Lord wasn’t speaking in English!
I’ve been told a better translation would be ‘Do not allow us to be led into temptation’ - which is more consistent with the idea that God never Himself tempts people, and that He can prevent others from tempting us if it is His will.
Not every instance of peirasmon has a negative sense, unlike the English ‘temptation’: it was the Spirit that led Jesus into the wastelands to be ‘tempted’/‘tested’ by Satan, after all (Matt. 4:1). When St. James mentions that God “does not tempt anyone” (James 1:13) he is presumably using peirasmon in the sense of ‘tempt someone to do wrong’; however, God “testing” His people is a well-recorded, Biblical idea (cf. Genesis 22:1; Deuteronomy 8:2; etc.)
I’ve heard that If we take peirasmon in the positive sense here, the point would be not that the “test” itself if bad, but that the disciples, aware of their weak human nature and the spirit of the world which does not share their values, would prefer not to face it and thus ask God to spare them from this trial. Some have also thought that the petition goes both ways: we are also asking God not to lead us into situations where we will “test” Him (just like the Israelites did in Massah and Meribah; Exodus 17:7).
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
‘Lead us not into temptation’ is apparently a very poor translation of the original language - remember Our Lord wasn’t speaking in English!
I’ve been told a better translation would be ‘Do not allow us to be led into temptation’ - which is more consistent with the idea that God never Himself tempts people, and that He can prevent others from tempting us if it is His will.
Better still, for “temptation” read “[time of] trial” - the eschatological trial believed to precede the final establishing of God’s Kingship on earth. Peter refers to it in 1 Peter 4.7 ff.
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patrick457
Guest
I came across one interesting thought on this while researching the former post.Better still, for “temptation” read “[time of] trial” - the eschatological trial believed to precede the final establishing of God’s Kingship on earth. Peter refers to it in 1 Peter 4.7 ff.
While the petition may be made with an eschatological reference, the wording does not suggest that it is its main purpose. Peirasmon, for example, is not preceded by a definite article (it is not kai mē eisenegkēs himas eis ton peirasmon “lead us not into the trial/test” but just kai mē eisenegkēs himas eis peirasmon, “lead us not into trial/test”), so the focus might not be too specific. Moreover, those looking for the eschatological consummation could hardly pray to be spared this “trial”, without which the end could not come. Their prayer would rather be that they be preserved safe through it (thus “deliver us from evil”). In Matthew 26:41 Jesus in Gethsemani also exhorts His disciples to pray for deliverance from peirasmos, with reference to their immediate danger rather than to some future, eschatological threat.
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ricmat
Guest
Because it’s his nature, and he can’t help himself?Why would Satan tempt Jesus if he knew that Jesus was going to win anyway?
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