Satanic Trickery

[Think]

The whole gist of the post is …“How do we know when Satan is upon us” basically…Like I said I’ve read a lot of posts on here that talk about satanic deception etc…etc… WELL…how do we know? And if we don’t really know well then…that led me to a bit of hyperbole…but I was trying to make a point… If you go back and read the responses…you guys may want to ask yourselves a few questions…

I will let the Hitler documentation go…nothing good can come of it AND I’m not the one who brought it up.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

So, basically what you are thinking is that we really can’t trust ourselves to “know” anything at all.

Books? Suspect. Anybody can write anything at all. Events of 2000 years ago? Impossible to prove. Heck, there are people who think that the earth is flat and that men never went to the moon. (Those photos and maps etc. are all “made up” by vast conspiracies).

God? Unknowable. Good and evil? Relative. Religion? The biggest evildoer on the planet with its wars and factions.

Ho-hum. The idea that religion and Christ were all part of a GOD-MADE conspiracy against humanity smacks of conspiracy theory on your part. Kind of circular quasi-reasoning.

Very nihilistic. Very sad. Takes the sort of mindset that humanity is at once both the acme and the nadir of life as we know it. Oh sure, techically your idea of “god” as Creator, mixed with a rather dualistic “satan”, supposedly is the “greatest”, but oh, it’s the human person (you) who has seen through the vast evilness of “religion”, making you at least God or Satan’s equal, if not superior! And it’s the supposedly so-good 'religious" person who comes in for your oprobrium in first falling for Jesus as God (since you posit He was not), and then for all the terrible things done supposedly by religious people simply because they were religious.

But go ahead, write the book. We’re just a bunch of plain old everyday ordinary mostly Catholic people here. We aren’t the super intellectual, the theologically questioning, the humanists, the relativists, the indifferentists, the Wicca wannabees or priestess hopefuls (mostly). We probably don’t have the intellectual capacity to appreciate your utterly original concepts, especially since you’ve only deigned to offer us a couple of paragraphs on the subject itself. Knock yourself out, let us know when the book gets published. Do the work before you beg for the glory, IOW.

 

[JimO]

Paris Blues:

Hey, at least my religion is not cycling! …

Speaking as a cyclist, I can say that as long as you wear a helmet, it doesn’t cause brain damage, in spite of the evidence herein.

 

[Dr.Colossus]

The whole gist of the post is …“How do we know when Satan is upon us”

I should think we would have to trust the guidelines given to us in the Bible. After all, the only way we even know about Satan is through the Bible. So if the Bible says something or someone is good or evil, we should trust it, and if we don’t, there’s no reason to think Satan exists either.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Speaking as a cyclist, I can say that as long as you wear a helmet, it doesn’t cause brain damage, in spite of the evidence herein.

---

 

[contemplative]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

When was the last time you actually sat down and read the Bible and prayed? You need to do more than think THINK. You need to pray and rest assured that others on this forum will pray for you too.

Contemplative - of or relating to a religious order devoted to prayer and penance

Think - to have an opinion

• Think less think
• Contemplate More
• The world needs more comtemplatives and less thinkers

 

[Think]

That was an interesting post…and you seem to be intelligent - BUT…I think instead of us having a philosohical discussion on whether or not we can grasp or be aware if you will when Satan has deceived us…(regardless of your twisting that into - “how can we know anything it all”)…you’ve just chosen to rip roar your way through a rather mediocre attack on ideas and notions that I spoke nothing of.
Tantum ergo:

So, basically what you are thinking is that we really can’t trust ourselves to “know” anything at all.

Books? Suspect. Anybody can write anything at all. Events of 2000 years ago? Impossible to prove. Heck, there are people who think that the earth is flat and that men never went to the moon. (Those photos and maps etc. are all “made up” by vast conspiracies).

God? Unknowable. Good and evil? Relative. Religion? The biggest evildoer on the planet with its wars and factions.

Ho-hum. The idea that religion and Christ were all part of a GOD-MADE conspiracy against humanity smacks of conspiracy theory on your part. Kind of circular quasi-reasoning.

Very nihilistic. Very sad. Takes the sort of mindset that humanity is at once both the acme and the nadir of life as we know it. Oh sure, techically your idea of “god” as Creator, mixed with a rather dualistic “satan”, supposedly is the “greatest”, but oh, it’s the human person (you) who has seen through the vast evilness of “religion”, making you at least God or Satan’s equal, if not superior! And it’s the supposedly so-good 'religious" person who comes in for your oprobrium in first falling for Jesus as God (since you posit He was not), and then for all the terrible things done supposedly by religious people simply because they were religious.

But go ahead, write the book. We’re just a bunch of plain old everyday ordinary mostly Catholic people here. We aren’t the super intellectual, the theologically questioning, the humanists, the relativists, the indifferentists, the Wicca wannabees or priestess hopefuls (mostly). We probably don’t have the intellectual capacity to appreciate your utterly original concepts, especially since you’ve only deigned to offer us a couple of paragraphs on the subject itself. Knock yourself out, let us know when the book gets published. Do the work before you beg for the glory, IOW.

 

[Think]

Yep…that sounds like your typical cafeteria catholic type response…hey why don’t you tell me how you really feel?

JimO:

Speaking as a cyclist, I can say that as long as you wear a helmet, it doesn’t cause brain damage, in spite of the evidence herein.

 

[Marquette]

I “think” that “THINK” should start reading his Bible. Matthew chapter 5 has Jesus clarifying the teachings of the Old Testament. “You have heard” was the teaching in the oral tradition and “But” was Jesus response. In each case, He made the point of being even MORE vigilant in keeping God’s law. He promoted righteousness GREATER than that of the Pharisees, explained that even looking in lust was adultery, stated divorce caused the other partner to commit adultery, etc. Why would Satan call for even GREATER righteousness? ABSURD. And as for the Nazi example, Jesus said in Matthew 7:16 “You will know them by their fruits.” And in verse 21, “Not every one who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven BUT HE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER who is in heaven.” Anyone can claim to be a Christian. As my now-deceased father-in-law used to say, “Talk is cheap. It takes money to buy whiskey.”

 

[JimO]

Think:

Yep…that sounds like your typical cafeteria catholic type response…hey why don’t you tell me how you really feel?

No need to get touchy, I was trying to be funny. And, I’ll have you know that I don’t even like cafeteria food.

 

[KBarn]

German soldiers during WWI had “Got mit uns” (“God with us”) inscribed on their belt buckles. Because most soldiers are just normal guys, it is reasonable to think that many of them had similar belt buckles in WWII.

Still, I think it is a little short-sighted to imply that all German soldiers were Nazis. They weren’t. The vast majority were simply fighting in defense of their homes.

 

[Writer]

Think:

I was sitting at work the other day reading quite a few posts, and something struck me.(which is why I decided to join up) How do we know when a supernatural force has influence on us?..how do we really know?..and then I actually came up with a great idea for a book!..Stick with me here…what if Jesus was actually a vessel of Satan…I’ve read the bible a few times, and I started toying with the idea that while there are a few positive messages in the bible…there are also quite a few very evil messages in the bible also (Is a garden beautiful when it is overrun with weeds?)…It may even be that “evil” itself didn’t exist before biblical times…don’t get me wrong - I know humans have been doing terrible things since day whenever…but when the biblical stories evolved and started circulating with various authorities putting together their approved version of the bible…then it seems…everything started getting really evil…and when I say evil…I mean *evule… *So what if Satan used Jesus to spread evil upon the earth in a much greater and more efficient way then ever before? What if Jesus was Satan?!..how would we know?..I mean if God is all knowing, all powerful etc…etc…then why would logic, and intelligence lead him to the path which he took?..God already knows who’s evil and who isn’t before we ever step foot on this earth right? Forget about the free will argument for a second. God could take free will and we would never know the difference…it’s a bogus argument. So what was the real purpose of jesus? …I think the book should explore that maybe Jesus isn’t God…but a great interloper…a deceiver…the devil himself?..Just a thought.

There isn’t really anything all that original in this concept, but the bottom line is that it would take much more “faith” to believe that Christ was actually the devil in disguise, than it takes to believe that He is the Son of God. As a famous English writer wrote in one of his books, Christ was either precisely who He said he was, or he was a madman, or worse. Given what He said and how He lived (including the casting out of spirits, mind you), nothing in His recorded personality bears any resemblence to anything but purity and good. I venture to guess you don’t really believe what you’re writing, but are just trying to throw some gas on the fire and get some Catholics up in arms. The fact of the matter is, however, that these are old and recycled ideas with no basis in logic or historical accounts of Christ.

 

[Mijoy2]

Think,

From my limited knowledge of demons, I believe they are incapable of taking on human form.

Therefore it rules out your theory as well as the TV show “Revelations”.

I think you thunk enough on this.

I once thought about writing a book too. Then I felt tired and took a nap.

 

[Think]

Like I said…is a garden truly beautiful if it’s overrun with weeds??? …

food for thought

Luke12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division…The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter…It goes on…

Marquette:

I “think” that “THINK” should start reading his Bible. Matthew chapter 5 has Jesus clarifying the teachings of the Old Testament. “You have heard” was the teaching in the oral tradition and “But” was Jesus response. In each case, He made the point of being even MORE vigilant in keeping God’s law. He promoted righteousness GREATER than that of the Pharisees, explained that even looking in lust was adultery, stated divorce caused the other partner to commit adultery, etc. Why would Satan call for even GREATER righteousness? ABSURD. And as for the Nazi example, Jesus said in Matthew 7:16 “You will know them by their fruits.” And in verse 21, “Not every one who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven BUT HE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER who is in heaven.” Anyone can claim to be a Christian. As my now-deceased father-in-law used to say, “Talk is cheap. It takes money to buy whiskey.”

 

[LSK]

The idea that you proposed for a book is interesting though hardly original. Since few people today read the classics or understand that this type of debate has been going on for centuries I doubt the lack of originality would compromise its money-making potential. Shoot, this kind of book would probably sell even if poorly written. Afterall, it has that underlying “attack Christianity” theme which always does well on a secular market. It would stir up a lot of controversy. It would most likely be purchased by someone for the purpose of making a movie.

I listenned recently to Father Corapi speak to the idea of God allowing evil in the world and how that very mystery can be so troubling to us mere mortals. I know I struggle at times with the idea of a loving God allowing things like the holocaust or that man in Illinois stabbing his daughter and her little friend to death on Mother’s Day. But Father reminded me of something - that being that as a mere human I cannot begin to pretend to grasp the enormity or totality of God’s infinite wisdom or His plans. During his sermon, Father Corapi pointed to the crucifix and said something to the effect that the evil that the crucifix commemorates - that of God being murdered by the very creatures He had created out of love - had lead to a wonderful good, an incredible gift of salvation that is now available to all humankind. With that in mind, I remember every day that I don’t have to understand God, I only have to love and worship Him.

As for your premise for your book, heck, go for it…perhaps something truly good will come from such a strange and vaguely evil idea. Afterall, God created you just like he created Hitler and Mother Theresa. I will trust that it is for a reason and I will Love and Worship Him always.

 

[Peace-bwu]

This sounds like something an ill-informed Junior High student would come up with.

You know them by the fruits of their labor

Was Jesus out for typical worldly power? No
Was Jesus out for money, No
Did followers of Jesus strive to do evil deeds or were they forever changed for good?
Do you think *true *followers of Jesus are evil?

Look up the works of Pope John II and Mother Teresa
They spent their lives serving others in the name of God, they did this by following the example of Christ more closely than most people
You can also look up the lives of all the other Saints and question the fruits of their labor, was it evil or God-like?

How do you explain the temptation of Jesus in the desert by the devil?

You know you are under the influence of evil if you are greatly drawn to evil things, if you have vices, if you believe there is no real good, no hell, no such thing as sin. If you believe truth is relative… If you are out for your own glory and do evil or immoral deeds to obtain that glory. If you choose your own will over the will of God. If you idolize money, sex, your lover, your car, fame, celebrities, yourself, If you accuse Jesus Christ as a pawn of Satan, you might be under the influence of Satan. These things look great on the surface and our society tells us they are to be strived for, but they never make us happy or satisfied. The only peace and Satisfaction in this world comes from Jesus Christ. Any convert from a life of earthly treasure can tell you that.

You see, evil in this world looks appealing on the outside, beautiful loose women, gorgeous cars that cost enough to feed a family for 3 years, free sex because of birth control and abortion, Beauty temporary health and longer lives resulting from the unethical misuse of technology… such as embryonic stem cell research, creating a human life only to experiment on it, and destroy it. (Im not talking about adult stem cell research which actually works) Using drugs or alcohol to become unconscience, to ignore one’s conscience, to feel free of conscience and guilt…Its the desire for fame at the expense of your soul. It’s wanting to make it in this world without God, to desire to be your own god. The glamor of sin has been on Earth since the Garden of Eden, and we have been battling it ever since. The punishment for evil is separation from God, when we choose evil, we choose to be without God. God doesn’t say “There, I zapped you with a lightning bolt.” No,usually he just sadly watches his beautiful creation rejecting Him. The lucky ones in this situation do have stumbling blocks that cause them to find God… its called the pruning of our branches, a grapevine left wild produces bad fruit, whereas one carefully pruned to perfection produces perfect grapes for perfect wine. God calls us all, but whether we answer that call is entirely up to us. God gave us free will because choosing to love another person of our own free will is more beautiful than being a slave forced to go through the motions of love, God doesn’t want slaves, he wants His creation to choose to love Him, to be the way he designed us.

Your questions make me arrive at the conclusion that you have never actually studied Scripture or theology. If you do a little research you will find that all your questions have been “hashed out” for thousands of years.

 

[Think]

Writer:

Given what He said and how He lived (including the casting out of spirits, mind you), nothing in His recorded personality bears any resemblence to anything but purity and good.

oh really

Luke12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division…The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter…It goes on…

 

[Dr.Colossus]

Think:

oh really

Luke12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division…The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter…It goes on…

If you’re going to use Scripture to try to prove that Jesus was Satan then try this on for size:

:bible1: The scribes who had come from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebul,” and “By the prince of demons he drives out demons.” Summoning them, he began to speak to them in parables, "How can Satan drive out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand; that is the end of him. Mark 3:22-26

 

[JimO]

Think:

oh really

Luke12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division…The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter…It goes on…

You sound an aweful lot like another poster who was suspended a couple of months ago.

 

[Newvert]

Dr. Colossus:

I give this thread 10 more posts before the Moderators shut it down. Anyone else want to make a guess? I’m taking bets now…

I would have agreed or said even fewer, but it just keeps going. And going. And going…