Saturday Evening Mass

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pianistclare said:
Just because it’s one’s opinion that this is not proper, you should not tell people who come with a legitimate question something that makes them question what has been permitted in the church for decades.
It’s fine.
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???
 
LiamQ said:
There are those who think that the Saturday evening Mass shouldn’t be attended just to free up Sunday for worldly things.

Is that what you’re referring to when you mention conflicting views?
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This is mostly the opinions I was referring to.

Of course I trust my priest, however I do like to listen to other people’s advice as well and have a bit of a discussion.
 
Thanks everyone for the replies, I just wanted to see the general opinion on this issue. Ta.
 
For most of my life, I’ve gone to Saturday evening Masses as that was my mother’s preference. It was rare to go on Sunday mornings, and if so it was for something family related out of town going on like a First Communion or similar. Now, I go on Saturday evenings as my current work schedule does not allow me to go on Sunday mornings at all.
 
Deltadeliquent said:
The reason it’s OK, is that, like the Jewish calendar, the Catholic calendar starts the day at sundown on the day before.

Shabbat starts in Friday evening, and Sunday begins on Saturday evening.

Jesus’ body had to be dealt with before evening on Friday because of not only Shabbat, but Passover would begin at sundown. The women didn’t come back to anoint the body until Shabbat was over. They waited until the sun came up on Sunday morning. (No flashlights back then…)
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The Byzantine Catholic church follows that rule (being from the Greek) but Roman day begins at midnight. Different regions had, in ancient time, a different start of the day, the Roman author Pliny gave details:

The Babylonians count the period between two sunrises, the Athenians that between two sunsets, the Umbrians from midday to midday, the common people everywhere from dawn to dark, the Roman priests and the authorities who fixed the official day, and also the Egyptians and Hipparchus, the period from midnight to midnight.

Reference: Pliny, Natural History bk. 2, ch. 79, p. 188, from Jack Finegan – Handbook of Biblical Chronology, p. 8 – Robert L. Odom in Sunday in Roman Paganism, p. 215
 
1ke said:
I don’t understand where or how there could be an “issue” as this has been allowed for 51 years.

Why would you doubt your priest?
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I always go to Mass on Saturday.
 
Reuben_J said:
Saturday mass is not Sunday mass; it has to use the Sunday liturgy for it to count.
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If it is after 4 p.m. it fulfills the obligation regardless of what readings are used. A wedding liturgy fulfills the obligation after 4 p.m. Saturday or a special liturgy such as confirmation, ordination, etc.
Reuben_J said:
Saturday sunset mass in question has to be done after sundown, meaning it’s the start of Sunday. In our local time, it is about 6 o’clock in the evening.
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That is not what Church documents say, it’s 4:00 p.m.
 
Deltadeliquent said:
The reason it’s OK, is that, like the Jewish calendar, the Catholic calendar starts the day at sundown on the day before.

Shabbat starts in Friday evening, and Sunday begins on Saturday evening.

Jesus’ body had to be dealt with before evening on Friday because of not only Shabbat, but Passover would begin at sundown. The women didn’t come back to anoint the body until Shabbat was over. They waited until the sun came up on Sunday morning. (No flashlights back then…)
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The sun is always shining brightly during the Saturday vigil where I attend mass. Sometimes directly in my eyes, depending on whether or not Daylight Savings Time is in effect.
 
Regarding how long it’s been in effect, isn’t there a long history of Vigil Masses for major holy days? Christmas and Easter are the big examples, but I’ve also heard of this for Pentecost and there may be others.

I don’t think it was just invented out of the blue for nothing.
 
Reuben_J said:
Saturday mass is not Sunday mass; it has to use the Sunday liturgy for it to count.

Saturday sunset mass in question has to be done after sundown, meaning it’s the start of Sunday. In our local time, it is about 6 o’clock in the evening.

I thought that’s the reason why the Saturday sunset mass counts as Sunday mass but it is interesting you’re saying that’s not the reason. Thanks for the information then.
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It does not have to be the Sunday Mass for it to count. An Ordination Mass at 4 pm on Saturday certainly fulfills your Sunday obligation. As would a wedding Mass. The timing is whatever the National Conference says or the diocesan bishop says. In Canada I’ve never seen a Sunday Mass start before 4 pm on Saturday.

As for sundown, where I live that doesn’t happen until almost 10 pm during the summer yet Sunday Mass remains at 4:30 p.m.

Generally the basis for 4 pm for an “evening Mass” rests in Pope Pius XII’s 1953 apostolic constitution “Christus Dominus”, which first gave permission for “evening Mass” to be celebrated (prior to that Mass on any given day had to be celebrated before noon). One of the rules of “evening Mass” was that it couldn’t start before 4 pm. Nothing since has redefined what is an evening Mass, although I understand that in certain dioceses the Bishops allow a Sunday Mass to be celebrated anytime after noon on Saturday.
 
pensmama87 said:
Regarding how long it’s been in effect, isn’t there a long history of Vigil Masses for major holy days? Christmas and Easter are the big examples, but I’ve also heard of this for Pentecost and there may be others.

I don’t think it was just invented out of the blue for nothing.
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The origin of the vigil was all night prayer, psalms, hymns, etc., followed by the Mass the next morning. From the vigil arose three of the hours of the office: vepers, matin, and laud. The word vigil means night watch.

Originally, no, the vigil wasn’t a Mass the evening before, but rather all night prayer culminating in Mass the next morning or a fasting period 24 hours before a specific feast like Pentecost.
 
pensmama87 said:
Regarding how long it’s been in effect, isn’t there a long history of Vigil Masses for major holy days? Christmas and Easter are the big examples, but I’ve also heard of this for Pentecost and there may be others.

I don’t think it was just invented out of the blue for nothing.
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Vigil Masses (Ordinary Form) in the Roman Calendar:

  1. *]Nativity of the Lord *
    *]Easter (on Holy Saturday after nightfall)
    *]Epiphany (Missale Romanum 3rd ed. - 2002) **
    *]Ascension (Missale Romanum 3rd ed. - 2002) **
    *]Pentecost *
    *]Nativity of St. John the Baptist *
    *]Saints Peter and Paul *
    *]Assumption *
    • Optional evening Mass, since 1969
      ** Optional evening Mass, since 2002
      The optional vigil Mass is used on the evening of the day before the Solemnity, either before or after First Vespers (Evening Prayer I) of the Solemnity.
    The history of vigil Masses prior to Vatican II, is that they were offered the morning before. With the changes of Vatican II to the liturgy, they are where they are now. Even before Vatican II, in 1950 the French bishops petitioned the Holy See for permission to celebrate the Easter Vigil at night rather than in the morning, for pastoral reasons.

    The liturgical days are midnight to midnight, but the* celebration *begins earlier for Solemnities and Sundays.
 
I have an idea: there’s this entity called the diocese. The diocese has a staff of professionals who spend their lives figuring out these things. Find out what your diocese tells you is o.k. and stick with it.
 
on_the_hill said:
I have an idea: there’s this entity called the diocese. The diocese has a staff of professionals who spend their lives figuring out these things. Find out what your diocese tells you is o.k. and stick with it.
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:p:thumbsup:
 
Vico said:
Vigil Masses (Ordinary Form) in the Roman Calendar:

  1. *]Nativity of the Lord *
    *]Easter (on Holy Saturday after nightfall)
    *]Epiphany (Missale Romanum 3rd ed. - 2002) **
    *]Ascension (Missale Romanum 3rd ed. - 2002) **
    *]Pentecost *
    *]Nativity of St. John the Baptist *
    *]Saints Peter and Paul *
    *]Assumption *
    • Optional evening Mass, since 1969
      ** Optional evening Mass, since 2002
      The optional vigil Mass is used on the evening of the day before the Solemnity, either before or after First Vespers (Evening Prayer I) of the Solemnity.
    The history of vigil Masses prior to Vatican II, is that they were offered the morning before. With the changes of Vatican II to the liturgy, they are where they are now. Even before Vatican II, in 1950 the French bishops petitioned the Holy See for permission to celebrate the Easter Vigil at night rather than in the morning, for pastoral reasons.

    The liturgical days are midnight to midnight, but the* celebration *begins earlier for Solemnities and Sundays.
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  1. Thanks for the informative post!
 
1ke said:
The origin of the vigil was all night prayer, psalms, hymns, etc., followed by the Mass the next morning. From the vigil arose three of the hours of the office: vepers, matin, and laud. The word vigil means night watch.

Originally, no, the vigil wasn’t a Mass the evening before, but rather all night prayer culminating in Mass the next morning or a fasting period 24 hours before a specific feast like Pentecost.
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Thank you, this is very informative!
Vico said:
Vigil Masses (Ordinary Form) in
the Roman Calendar:

  1. *]Nativity of the Lord *
    *]Easter (on Holy Saturday after nightfall)
    *]Epiphany (Missale Romanum 3rd ed. - 2002) **
    *]Ascension (Missale Romanum 3rd ed. - 2002) **
    *]Pentecost *
    *]Nativity of St. John the Baptist *
    *]Saints Peter and Paul *
    *]Assumption *
    • Optional evening Mass, since 1969
      ** Optional evening Mass, since 2002
      The optional vigil Mass is used on the evening of the day before the Solemnity, either before or after First Vespers (Evening Prayer I) of the Solemnity.
    The history of vigil Masses prior to Vatican II, is that they were offered the morning before. With the changes of Vatican II to the liturgy, they are where they are now. Even before Vatican II, in 1950 the French bishops petitioned the Holy See for permission to celebrate the Easter Vigil at night rather than in the morning, for pastoral reasons.

    The liturgical days are midnight to midnight, but the* celebration *begins earlier for Solemnities and Sundays.
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  1. As is this! Thank you both very much.
 
Wondering why it was introduced?

When I was very new in Ireland and to the Catholic Church, my landlady told me she always went to Vigil Mass as “otherwise there would be no time to get anything done on Sunday” She was horrified at the idea of Mass on Sundays
 
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