Saturday Evening Vespers Fulfilling Sunday Obligation

[JMJCatholic]

Hello,

I am a Roman Catholic, and while I attend Mass on weekdays at my local parish, I wish to fulfill my Sunday obligation at an Eastern Catholic Church. I spoke with the pastor of that church and explained to him that I find it difficult to attend any of the morning liturgies (for reasons I don’t think I need to go into here). He told me that I could fulfill my Sunday obligation by attending the Vespers Liturgy on Saturday evening. To be sure I understood correctly, I asked another Eastern Catholic priest if that was correct, and he said that Eastern Catholics fulfill their Sunday obligation either by attending the Divine Liturgy or Vespers on Saturday evening. I also understand that it is permissible to attend Orthodox (not Catholic) liturgies, but these do not fulfill the Sunday obligation. Am I understanding correctly?

Thank you!

JMJ

 

[Denho]

Hello,

I am a Roman Catholic, and while I attend Mass on weekdays at my local parish, I wish to fulfill my Sunday obligation at an Eastern Catholic Church. I spoke with the pastor of that church and explained to him that I find it difficult to attend any of the morning liturgies (for reasons I don’t think I need to go into here). He told me that I could fulfill my Sunday obligation by attending the Vespers Liturgy on Saturday evening. To be sure I understood correctly, I asked another Eastern Catholic priest if that was correct, and he said that Eastern Catholics fulfill their Sunday obligation either by attending the Divine Liturgy or Vespers on Saturday evening. I also understand that it is permissible to attend Orthodox (not Catholic) liturgies, but these do not fulfill the Sunday obligation. Am I understanding correctly?

Thank you!

JMJ

Canon 1248 of the Latin Code of Canon Law states,

“§1 The obligation of assisting at Mass is satisfied wherever Mass is celebrated in a catholic rite either on a holyday itself or on the evening of the previous day.”

The Eastern Code of Canon Law states in Canon 881

“1. The Christian faithful are bound by the obligation to participate on Sundays and feast days in the Divine Liturgy, or according to the prescriptions or legitimate customs of their own Church* sui iuris*, in the celebration of the divine praises.”

You are bound by the CIC and the CCEO states that the ability to fulfill your “Sunday obligation” at a celebration of Vespers in an Eastern Catholic Church is determined by the particular law of the each Church sui iuris. The Latin Code says you are bound to assist at Mass, not Vespers.

For Latin Catholics the Code specifies a “catholic rite.” The 1967 Ecumenical Directory permitted Catholics to fulfill their Sunday Mass obligation by worshipping in an Orthodox Church. However, the 1993 Ecumenical Directory has no such privilege, since it was issued after the 1983 Code.

The CCEO does not specify if the Divine Liturgy is to be of a “catholic rite” or not so Eastern Catholics can get away with fudging things a bit, depending on which canon lawyer you ask.

 

[aemcpa]

Hello,

I am a Roman Catholic, and while I attend Mass on weekdays at my local parish, I wish to fulfill my Sunday obligation at an Eastern Catholic Church. I spoke with the pastor of that church and explained to him that I find it difficult to attend any of the morning liturgies (for reasons I don’t think I need to go into here). He told me that I could fulfill my Sunday obligation by attending the Vespers Liturgy on Saturday evening. To be sure I understood correctly, I asked another Eastern Catholic priest if that was correct, and he said that Eastern Catholics fulfill their Sunday obligation either by attending the Divine Liturgy or Vespers on Saturday evening. I also understand that it is permissible to attend Orthodox (not Catholic) liturgies, but these do not fulfill the Sunday obligation. Am I understanding correctly?

Thank you!

JMJ

You are required to attend Mass. That means you must attend a liturgy at which the Eucharistic sacrifice is offered. Vespers is not such a liturgy; therefore it does not fulfill your obligation. So you can certainly attend Vespers, but you still need to go to Mass.

You shouldn’t be asking an Eastern Catholic priest about how to fulfill your obligations. You are bound by the law of the Latin Church, not of whatever Eastern Church that priest belongs to. Even if he and his subjects can fulfill their obligation by attending Vespers, that doesn’t mean you can.

 

[JMJCatholic]

Canon 1248 of the Latin Code of Canon Law states,

The Eastern Code of Canon Law states in Canon 881

You are bound by the CIC and the CCEO states that the ability to fulfill your “Sunday obligation” at a celebration of Vespers in an Eastern Catholic Church is determined by the particular law of the each Church sui iuris. The Latin Code says you are bound to assist at Mass, not Vespers.

For Latin Catholics the Code specifies a “catholic rite.” The 1967 Ecumenical Directory permitted Catholics to fulfill their Sunday Mass obligation by worshipping in an Orthodox Church. However, the 1993 Ecumenical Directory has no such privilege, since it was issued after the 1983 Code.

The CCEO does not specify if the Divine Liturgy is to be of a “catholic rite” or not so Eastern Catholics can get away with fudging things a bit, depending on which canon lawyer you ask.

Thank you very much for that detailed information.

 

[Vico]

Canon 1248 of the Latin Code of Canon Law states,

The Eastern Code of Canon Law states in Canon 881

You are bound by the CIC and the CCEO states that the ability to fulfill your “Sunday obligation” at a celebration of Vespers in an Eastern Catholic Church is determined by the particular law of the each Church sui iuris. The Latin Code says you are bound to assist at Mass, not Vespers.

For Latin Catholics the Code specifies a “catholic rite.” The 1967 Ecumenical Directory permitted Catholics to fulfill their Sunday Mass obligation by worshipping in an Orthodox Church. However, the 1993 Ecumenical Directory has no such privilege, since it was issued after the 1983 Code.

The CCEO does not specify if the Divine Liturgy is to be of a “catholic rite” or not so Eastern Catholics can get away with fudging things a bit, depending on which canon lawyer you ask.

The Catholic Church does not hold the faithful to an obligation to assist in a non-Catholic Church (See 115 below). There was a warning made after the CCEO was promulgated that we Catholics must avoid religions indifference.

Directory For The Application Of Principles And Norms On Ecumenism

1. Since the celebration of the Eucharist on the Lord’s Day is the foundation and centre of the whole liturgical year,120 Catholics—but those of Eastern Churches according to their own Law121—are obliged to attend Mass on that day and on days of precept.122 It is not advisable therefore to organize ecumenical services on Sundays, and it must be remembered that even when Catholics participate in ecumenical services or in services of other Churches and ecclesial Communities, the obligation of participating at Mass on these days remains
2. Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage suggests, and provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, it is lawful for any Catholic for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist and anointing of the sick from a minister of an Eastern Church.[Cf. CIC, can. 844, 2 and CCEO, can. 671, 2.]
3. Since practice differs between Catholics and Eastern Christians in the matter of frequent communion, confession before communion and the Eucharistic fast, care must be taken to avoid scandal and suspicion among Eastern Christians through Catholics not following the Eastern usage. A Catholic who legitimately wishes to communicate with Eastern Christians must respect the Eastern discipline as much as possible and refrain from communicating if that Church restricts sacramental communion to its own members to the exclusion of others.

vatican.va/roman_curia/po…ectory_en.html

 

[ConstantineTG]

I know by Canon Law this works, but this is one of those things that makes me shake my head. If the obligation is to attend “Mass”, that is a Eucharistic Liturgy, then attending Vespers is not the same thing. In the cycle of Liturgies in a day, they are not the same, they are never the same and I believe it confuses the meaning of each Liturgical service which then takes away from its purpose.

 

[JMJCatholic]

Canon 1248 of the Latin Code of Canon Law states,

The Eastern Code of Canon Law states in Canon 881

You are bound by the CIC and the CCEO states that the ability to fulfill your “Sunday obligation” at a celebration of Vespers in an Eastern Catholic Church is determined by the particular law of the each Church sui iuris. The Latin Code says you are bound to assist at Mass, not Vespers.

For Latin Catholics the Code specifies a “catholic rite.” The 1967 Ecumenical Directory permitted Catholics to fulfill their Sunday Mass obligation by worshipping in an Orthodox Church. However, the 1993 Ecumenical Directory has no such privilege, since it was issued after the 1983 Code.

The CCEO does not specify if the Divine Liturgy is to be of a “catholic rite” or not so Eastern Catholics can get away with fudging things a bit, depending on which canon lawyer you ask.

The 1967 Ecumenical Directory, with the broader ecumenical concession to Latin Rite Catholics, was issued under the papal authority of Pope Paul VI and apparently rescinded by Pope John Paul II, whose pontificate was in great part dedicated to ecumenism between the Eastern and Western churches. I find this paradoxical. Are there any canon law experts who would have a different interpretation, that is, assistance at an Orthodox Divine Liturgy may in fact fulfill a Latin Rite Catholic’s Sunday obligation as it had in 1967 until it was rescinded in 1983?

JMJ

 

[JMJCatholic]

I found this, which is interesting. Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J., the Catholic Jesuit known for his orthodoxy, in an article, “How to Cope with Abuses in Eucharistic the Liturgy” suggests various options. Here is Option 2: (Incidentally, this article has a 1998 copyright, well after the 1983 Code of Canon Law under discussion.)

Second Option - Eastern Orthodox Liturgy. One of the remarkable developments of ecumenism, I mean real ecumenism, is the openness which the Second Vatican Council gave Roman Catholics in their relationship with the Eastern Orthodox. In 1967 the Holy See declared that, “Catholics attending the Eucharistic Liturgy of the Eastern Churches, not in communion with Rome, do fulfill their Sunday obligation provided they have reasonable grounds for doing so.” “Such”, Rome also declares, “would be public office, or public function, blood relationship, friendship, or even the desire to be better informed about the practices of Eastern Orthodoxy.” This Roman document goes on to say that professed Catholic are, “Not then bound to assist at Mass in a Catholic Church. It is likewise a good thing if on such days Catholics for just reasons cannot go to Mass in their own Church attend the Holy Liturgy of their separated Oriental brethren if this is possible.”

therealpresence.org/archives/Mass/Mass_004.htm

 

[Vico]

I found this, which is interesting. Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J., the Catholic Jesuit known for his orthodoxy, in an article, “How to Cope with Abuses in Eucharistic the Liturgy” suggests various options. Here is Option 2: (Incidentally, this article has a 1998 copyright, well after the 1983 Code of Canon Law under discussion.)

Second Option - Eastern Orthodox Liturgy. One of the remarkable developments of ecumenism, I mean real ecumenism, is the openness which the Second Vatican Council gave Roman Catholics in their relationship with the Eastern Orthodox. In 1967 the Holy See declared that, “Catholics attending the Eucharistic Liturgy of the Eastern Churches, not in communion with Rome, do fulfill their Sunday obligation provided they have reasonable grounds for doing so.” “Such”, Rome also declares, “would be public office, or public function, blood relationship, friendship, or even the desire to be better informed about the practices of Eastern Orthodoxy.” This Roman document goes on to say that professed Catholic are, “Not then bound to assist at Mass in a Catholic Church. It is likewise a good thing if on such days Catholics for just reasons cannot go to Mass in their own Church attend the Holy Liturgy of their separated Oriental brethren if this is possible.”

therealpresence.org/archives/Mass/Mass_004.htm

The obligation is not fulfilled outside the Catholic Church (23 ritual Churches) because the Catholic Church does not require a Catholic to attend other churches, even though they may have valid Holy Mysteries. The time extension is to allow for flexibility in fulfillment of the obligation (CCEO 881.2). Since the various ritual Churches have different disciplines with regard to when a Divine Liturgy or Mass is done, it is not always possible to utilize the time extension for a Divine Liturgy, rather the evening may offer Vespers, per their liturgical discipline. CCEO Canon 881

1. The Christian faithful are bound by the obligation to participate on Sundays and feast days in the Divine Liturgy, or according to the prescriptions or legitimate customs of their own Church sui iuris, in the celebration of the divine praises.
2. In order for the Christian faithful to fulfill this obligation more easily, the available time runs from the evening of the vigil until the end of the Sunday or feast day.
3. The Christian faithful are strongly recommended to receive the Divine Eucharist on these days and indeed more frequently, even daily.
4. The Christian faithful should abstain from those labors or business matters which impede the worship to be rendered to God, the joy which is proper to the Lord’s day, or to the proper relaxation of mind and body.

APPLYING THE LITURGICAL PRESCRIPTIONS OF THE CODE OF CANONS OF THE EASTERN CHURCHES (1996)**
****64. Feast days
** Can. 881 § 1 of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches declares that “the Christian faithful are bound by the obligation to participate on Sundays and feast days in the Divine Liturgy, or according to the prescriptions or legitimate customs of their own Church , in the celebration of the divine praises,” and § 2 completes it, adding that “in order for the Christian faithful to fulfill this obligation more easily, the available time runs from the evening of the vigil until the end of the Sunday or feast day.” The Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches thus provides for the possibility, inspired by n. 15 of the , to satisfy the precept of Sunday either by participating in the Divine Liturgy, or by taking part in the Divine Office. Such a possibility emphasizes the importance of the Divine Office, and in a certain way renders concretely possible its correct celebration, at the proper hours, and in such a way that the texts correspond fully to the time in which they are celebrated. In fact, the daily cycle begins with Vespers and is extended into the night to culminate in the morning with the Divine Liturgy or Oblation. To celebrate the various parts of the Divine Office in times other than those foreseen by the entire structure of the text risks destroying the equilibrium of the different parts and diminishing the fullness of the eucharistic mystery, for which they are a preparation and of which they are a continuation. Authentic liturgical pastoral theology must bear in mind the whole of the problems and not be limited to simply imitating Western practice. The immediate fonts for restoring the usage should be the prescriptions of the liturgical books published according to the authentic traditions of the different Churches.

ewtn.com/library/curia/eastinst.htm

 

[UncleBill]

I believe the OP meant the Liturgy he was fulfilling his obligation with was the abomination of the"Vesperal Liturgy".

 

[dvdjs]

I believe the OP meant the Liturgy he was fulfilling his obligation with was the abomination of the"Vesperal Liturgy".

I had just been to one on Holy and Great Saturday, and it did not seem to be an abomination.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I had just been to one on Holy and Great Saturday, and it did not seem to be an abomination.

There are certain times of the year when the Divine Liturgy is rightfully celebrated immediately after Vespers. But this should not be a common occurrence.

 

[rdorseyhsd]

The original topic was Vesper DIVINE liturgy (emphasis added). On Saturday evenings in our Church, Vespers are followed by Divine Liturgy at which the Eucharist is consecrated. This obviously satisfies all requirements. The priest saying Vesper Divine Liturgy satisfied all requirements was correct.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Wait, any public prayer is a Liturgy, when the people are gathered in Church and praying together. So Liturgy does not equate to Divine Liturgy. Vespers is a Liturgical service. It is just not a Divine Liturgy which is a Eucharistic Liturgy. Although as discussed on this thread, there are parishes in the Eastern Catholic Church who do Vesperal Divine Liturgies outside of the appointed times where they are appropriate.

So if there is an Eucharistic Liturgy that evening, then yes it is equivalent to a “Mass”. Although that still would violate the symbolism of the Daily Liturgical cycle in the Byzantine spirituality. While the Divine Liturgy is outside of time and can be celebrated at any time of the day, there is a purpose for the Liturgies that are within time, that is the Liturgy of the Hours which occurs at fixed times of the day or at specific daily occurance, such as sunset, sunrise, and midnight.

 

[theistgal]

The CCEO does not specify if the Divine Liturgy is to be of a “catholic rite” or not so Eastern Catholics can get away with fudging things a bit, depending on which canon lawyer you ask.

For anyone who thinks ECs are “fudging things” by attending Vespers instead of (though it’s usually IN ADDITION TO) Divine Liturgy, you may not realize that a properly celebrated Vespers can last an hour or more.

So anyone who thinks “oh, I don’t want to sit through an hour of Mass tomorrow, maybe I’ll just sneak into Vespers tonight”, your feet and leg muscles will be helping you with your penance tomorrow.

 

[ConstantineTG]

For anyone who thinks ECs are “fudging things” by attending Vespers instead of (though it’s usually IN ADDITION TO) Divine Liturgy, you may not realize that a properly celebrated Vespers can last an hour or more.

So anyone who thinks “oh, I don’t want to sit through an hour of Mass tomorrow, maybe I’ll just sneak into Vespers tonight”, your feet and leg muscles will be helping you with your penance tomorrow.

It is not about the length of time. The issue really is what Vespers are to the daily Liturgical cycle vs. what a Divine Liturgy or Mass is.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The CCEO does not specify if the Divine Liturgy is to be of a “catholic rite” or not so Eastern Catholics can get away with fudging things a bit, depending on which canon lawyer you ask.

That was intentional because there is some limited intercommunion in the traditional lands of the ECs with their Orthodox counterpart. For example, the Chaldean Catholics and Assyrian Church of the East have intercommunion in the Middle East. I believe unofficially, this is also true with the Melkites and the Antiochian Orthodox Church. So to codify that ECs must only attend Catholic Liturgies (ie. those celebrated by those in communion with Rome) would complicate those arrangements.

I guess it also depends from bishop to bishop. I’ve heard Ukrainian Orthodox Churches that commune Ukrainian Catholics and vice versa. And their bishops are aware and fine with it. The dynamic with Eastern Churches are certainly different from what RCs are accustomed to.

 

[Vico]

The original topic was Vesper DIVINE liturgy (emphasis added). On Saturday evenings in our Church, Vespers are followed by Divine Liturgy at which the Eucharist is consecrated. This obviously satisfies all requirements. The priest saying Vesper Divine Liturgy satisfied all requirements was correct.

Post #1 states “Vespers Liturgy”.

JMJCatholic, what did you intend?

 

[theistgal]

It is not about the length of time. The issue really is what Vespers are to the daily Liturgical cycle vs. what a Divine Liturgy or Mass is.

Yes, I know, I’m just trying to make the point that some people seem to think we ECs are constantly looking for ways to “fudge” our obligations. It was just a throwaway.

 

[UncleBill]

I don’t get this whole thing of Vesperal Divine Liturgies outside of where the Typicon appoints them. Why are we not celebrating a proper Vespers service on Saturday evening and Divine Liturgy on Sunday where it is supposed to be prayed. We have a Typicon for a reason.