Saturday Mass readings (We must be irreproachable to Him (no OSAS) / Violating the sabbath..)

[distracted]

September 5, 2009

Reading 1
Col 1:21-23

Brothers and Sisters:
You once were alienated and hostile in mind because of evil deeds;
God has now reconciled you
in the fleshly Body of Christ through his death,
to present you holy, without blemish,
and irreproachable before him,
provided that you persevere in the faith,
firmly grounded, stable,
and not shifting from the hope of the Gospel that you heard,
which has been preached to every creature under heaven,
of which I, Paul, am a minister.

Responsorial Psalm
Ps 54:3-4, 6 and 8
R. (6) God himself is my help.
O God, by your name save me,
and by your might defend my cause.
O God, hear my prayer;
hearken to the words of my mouth.
R. God himself is my help.
Behold, God is my helper;
the Lord sustains my life.
Freely will I offer you sacrifice;
I will praise your name, O LORD, for its goodness.
R. God himself is my help.

Gospel
Lk 6:1-5

While Jesus was going through a field of grain on a sabbath,
his disciples were picking the heads of grain,
rubbing them in their hands, and eating them.
Some Pharisees said,
“Why are you doing what is unlawful on the sabbath?”
Jesus said to them in reply,
“Have you not read what David did
when he and those who were with him were hungry?
How he went into the house of God, took the bread of offering,
which only the priests could lawfully eat,
ate of it, and shared it with his companions?”
Then he said to them, “The Son of Man is lord of the sabbath.”

*1st:

Here is further “evidence” of our need to be perfected / purified (Purgatory). If we are not perfected in this life, God gives us time in the next life to get ourselves straightened out… In some cases, a LOT of time…

It is also further refutation of the concept of OnceSavedAlwaysSaved, a totally false interpretation of scirpture if i ever saw one. We must be irreproachable before God. There is no way a person can be absolutely irreproachable while living on this earth. Well, some saints have been… and have gone directly into Heaven at death (martyrs) but most people who are christian have to go through purgatory first… and the way this world is, there are going to be fewer and fewer holy people going directly to Heaven, in my opinion

2nd:

Here Jesus is trying to tell us that sometimes certain religious traditions are less (sometimes far less) important than… say, hunger. In other words, human beings (with their needs) are more precious to God than keeping certain traditions. Jesus is lord of the Sabbath… If we are doing waht Jesus wants, even if it is in violation of the keeping of the Sabbath, that is what is important… (except, of course, that it is a mortal sin to miss Mass without a valid excuse… “Do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together…”)*

 

[Richard_Kastner]

September 5, 2009

Reading 1
Col 1:21-23

Brothers and Sisters:
You once were alienated and hostile in mind because of evil deeds;
God has now reconciled you
in the fleshly Body of Christ through his death,
to present you holy, without blemish,
and irreproachable before him,
provided that you persevere in the faith,
firmly grounded, stable,
and not shifting from the hope of the Gospel that you heard,
which has been preached to every creature under heaven,
of which I, Paul, am a minister.

Responsorial Psalm
Ps 54:3-4, 6 and 8
R. (6) God himself is my help.
O God, by your name save me,
and by your might defend my cause.
O God, hear my prayer;
hearken to the words of my mouth.
R. God himself is my help.
Behold, God is my helper;
the Lord sustains my life.
Freely will I offer you sacrifice;
I will praise your name, O LORD, for its goodness.
R. God himself is my help.

Here is further “evidence” of our need to be perfected / purified (Purgatory). If we are not perfected in this life, God gives us time in the next life to get ourselves straightened out… In some cases, a LOT of time…

Matt 5:48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
distracted Do you think that Jesus was just blowing hot air here or do you think that He meant what He said?

Eph.4:11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

The gifts of the Spirit are given to men for one purpose and that is 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Well, just how do we do that Col.1
23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
24Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church:
25Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

We become perfect in the eyes of God Through the acceptance of the gift of God in His Son and being washed in the blood of the Lamb Jesus Christ.

When we do this there is no need for purgatory. Jesus paid it all and we become perfect in Him.

 

[distracted]

Matt 5:48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
We become perfect in the eyes of God Through the acceptance of the gift of God in His Son and being washed in the blood of the Lamb Jesus Christ.

When we do this there is no need for purgatory. Jesus paid it all and we become perfect in Him.

Jesus paid the price so that we could be in a state of grace so that we woiuld be open to being perfected / purified… Once sin is committed, if the person asks Godfor forgiveness and prefereably, goes to confession, he is forgiven and receives grace. But the effects of the sin are still there… that’s where work comes in… much prayer, possibly fasting, offering up our sufferings as atonement… etc… A good example is the sin of, say… beating someone up. You feel guilty about it, and if you ask the victim to forgive, hopefully he wil… but you have done damage to your soul by acting in this terribly uncharitable way… & have distance yourself from God, who is perfect love, who lovesthat victim far more than he loves even himself… died for him… And let’s say you have broken his nose. Do you just say “Hey, sorry about your nose… hope your hospital bill isnt too high” and walk away… go watch TV or soemthing?

no, God would want you to pay for his hosp bill… That is making up for the wrong you have done.

its the same hting with Purgatoyr…

 

[SpectatorX]

Matt 5:48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
distracted Do you think that Jesus was just blowing hot air here or do you think that He meant what He said?

Eph.4:11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

The gifts of the Spirit are given to men for one purpose and that is 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Well, just how do we do that Col.1
23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
24Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church:
25Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

We become perfect in the eyes of God Through the acceptance of the gift of God in His Son and being washed in the blood of the Lamb Jesus Christ.

When we do this there is no need for purgatory. Jesus paid it all and we become perfect in Him.

Your reply invokes the concept of forensic justification which lacks any scriptural or historical attestation. It is true that we do become perfect in Christ, but through an actual objective application of His grace, not legal fiction. Through grace, which must be accepted, we are capable of achieving holiness even in this life, though few are persistent enough to accept what is freely offered to the extent which would be required to achieve this end - due primarily to our heeding of the fallen nature which exists within us all.

We can achieve perfection by grace, and by grace we can choose to accept grace. We often allow our fallen natures to hold us back not because we are totally depraved but because we have free will and at times use it poorly.