Saturday or Sunday? The Answer Is Written On Our Hearts

[happilycatholic]

I posted this on another thread and just wanted to get some feedback. It’s personal opinion based on my understanding of the Scriptures and the Catechism:

The Trinity did not exist at the time of Creation, at the formation of Judaism, at the time of the Law of Moses or at any other point before Christ’s birth. So at the formation of the Sabbath, the Trinity did not exist. There was no glory given to God The Savior because Christ had not come yet. In fact that was the point of Christ’s Passion, to fill that void between us and God.

The keeping of the Sabbath was to give glory to God the Creator because God the Savior did not exist and today, the “worshipping of Saturday cannot intrinsically include “The Son” and can actually be considered “exclusive”. There is no connection with God The Savior in the Sabbath. In fact it is the opposite, to do so is to separate ourselves from God The Savior. This is why the Jews still keep the Sabbath. They do not believe Christ is the Messiah so they have deliberately chosen to continue this way so as to give glory to God and not to Jesus. Even Jews realize the true way to give God glory as The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit is to worship on Sunday.

Sunday worship is “inclusive” because when we worship God The Savior we can also worship God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit which includes the Creator and ALL that God is.

The Commandments must go through a transformation there is no other way. We cannot simply rewrite what God has written so we must reinterpret God’s Command to us to Worship Him. Does God want us to continue to worship Him in a way that excludes part of the Trinity? No. So we must give God the glory for the Sabbath, but commit the written law to Him as the Savior so as to give glory to ALL that God is. It is the only way to be totally obedient to God.

God said to keep the Commandments. The only way to keep the Commandments AND give glory to God the Savior is to symbolically place Christ into the Third/Fourth Commandment. There is no other way. You would have to choose between the Third Commandment and Christ otherwise, because obviously Christ is not written into the Third Commandment. I believe THAT’S the part that is written on our hearts and is a true mystery because it takes faith to see Christ in the Third Commandment just like it took faith to see the foretelling of Christ coming in the Old Law.

What you see as the “Sabbath Commandment” we as Christians/Catholics now see as “The Lord’s Day” Commandment because it was written on our hearts.

 

[LilyM]

Minor correction - the Trinity absolutely existed at creation - ‘in the beginning was the Word (Jesus) and the Word was with God’ (John 1) … and at creation similarly ‘the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) moved upon the face of the waters’ (Genesis 1).

What DIDN’T exist (yet) at creation was Christ’s human form, nor had His saving Resurrection (essentially making us a new creation) occurred yet. THAT - His Resurrection - is what we celebrate on Sunday.

 

[Dauphin]

Minor correction - the Trinity absolutely existed at creation - ‘in the beginning was the Word (Jesus) and the Word was with God’ (John 1) … and at creation similarly ‘the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) moved upon the face of the waters’ (Genesis 1).

What DIDN’T exist (yet) at creation was Christ’s human form, nor had His saving Resurrection (essentially making us a new creation) occurred yet. THAT - His Resurrection - is what we celebrate on Sunday.

It’s more than a minor correction. That’s one of the gravest heresies possible.

 

[happilycatholic]

Minor correction - the Trinity absolutely existed at creation - ‘in the beginning was the Word (Jesus) and the Word was with God’ (John 1) … and at creation similarly ‘the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) moved upon the face of the waters’ (Genesis 1).

What DIDN’T exist (yet) at creation was Christ’s human form, nor had His saving Resurrection (essentially making us a new creation) occurred yet. THAT - His Resurrection - is what we celebrate on Sunday.

Okay, I stand corrected. What was meant, is that in common knowledge among the Isrealites at the time. They did not see God as The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit and did not refer to Him as such.

Obviously, the Trinity has been ever present and is without the constraint of time.

 

[happilycatholic]

It’s more than a minor correction. That’s one of the gravest heresies possible.

A person can’t even pour their heart out on this forum without being torn apart.

Thanks for your kind criticism.

 

[LilyM]

It’s more than a minor correction. That’s one of the gravest heresies possible.

I think in this case it’s a matter of misunderstanding and not heresy (which requires knowledge of the correct teaching and deliberate decision to reject it) - and I’m sure the OP will be fine once properly instructed.

So yes, minor (at least subjectively).

 

[happilycatholic]

I think it’s questionable how the first reaction to my post was a criticism and the very next came close to calling me a heretic.

Way to go catholics! This is what makes people flock to our charitable, tolerant, loving and supportive Churches.

 

[happilycatholic]

I think in this case it’s a matter of misunderstanding and not heresy (which requires knowledge of the correct teaching and deliberate decision to reject it) - and I’m sure the OP will be fine once properly instructed.

So yes, minor (at least subjectively).

Yes, and I do appreciate the chance to clarify the meaning. However it’s always a good idea not to state a negative first as it places the subject of the negativity on the defensive.

 

[LilyM]

I think it’s questionable how the first reaction to my post was a criticism and the very next came close to calling me a heretic.

Way to go catholics! This is what makes people flock to our charitable, tolerant, loving and supportive Churches.

Good news first then. I think, as you’ve since restated it, your theory is absolutely spot on and really interesting. The Jews not knowing the Trinity, not knowing Christ the Savior, their emphasis would indeed be skewed towards the Creator and honouring the act of Creation, whereas ours is on God the Saviour and honouring the act of salvation.

As to the previous posts, we owe it to Christ who IS truth to make sure that when we discuss Him we are accurate. It’s a disservice to those we speak to, and an insult to Him, to let untruth or inaccuracy slide.

That better?

 

[happilycatholic]

Good news first then. I think, as you’ve since restated it, your theory is absolutely spot on and really interesting. The Jews not knowing the Trinity, not knowing Christ the Savior, their emphasis would indeed be skewed towards the Creator and honouring the act of Creation, whereas ours is on God the Saviour and honouring the act of salvation.

As to the previous posts, we owe it to Christ who IS truth to make sure that when we discuss Him we are accurate. It’s a disservice to those we speak to, and an insult to Him, to let untruth or inaccuracy slide.

That better?

Yes, I totally agree and I am genuinely grateful-don’t get me wrong. I don’t want to appear to mislead anyone. I was speaking from the point-of-view of the Isrealites and the fact that what we know as the Trinity was not known then.

 

[happilycatholic]

The Jews not knowing the Trinity, not knowing Christ the Savior, their emphasis would indeed be skewed towards the Creator and honouring the act of Creation, whereas ours is on God the Saviour and honouring the act of salvation./quote]

I do think you bring up a relavant point in this comment. Although I think the word “skewed” isn’t one I’d use. Since the point both of us are trying to make is that they couldn’t give glory to what was not yet reaveled to them. It wasn’t misplaced, but correct for what they knew.

I think this may be the point of discussion.

Now that we know, to not acknowledge Christ in the Third Commandment (and His rightful place as God in the rest as well) is to disobey His Commandment altogether.

 

[puzzleannie]

I posted this on another thread and just wanted to get some feedback. It’s personal opinion based on my understanding of the Scriptures and the Catechism:

The Trinity did not exist at the time of Creation, at the formation of Judaism, at the time of the Law of Moses or at any other point before Christ’s birth. So at the formation of the Sabbath, the Trinity did not exist. There was no glory given to God The Savior because Christ had not come yet. In fact that was the point of Christ’s Passion, to fill that void between us and God.
.

better re-read your catechism because you missed the most important part. Yes God is Trinity and Unity from before Creation, for all time, for eternity, there has never been a time when God, three Persons in one Divine Nature, did not exist. The Father has always existed, the Son has always existed, the Spirit has always existed, equal and eternal.

 

[happilycatholic]

better re-read your catechism because you missed the most important part. Yes God is Trinity and Unity from before Creation, for all time, for eternity, there has never been a time when God, three Persons in one Divine Nature, did not exist. The Father has always existed, the Son has always existed, the Spirit has always existed, equal and eternal.

please read ALL the posts before you reply. That has been clarified.

 

[happilycatholic]

Okay, I stand corrected. What was meant, is that in common knowledge among the Isrealites at the time. They did not see God as The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit and did not refer to Him as such.

Obviously, the Trinity has been ever present and is without the constraint of time.

Let me say this, and I hope everyone who wishes to reply will take this into consideration.

The reason I wrote my OP the way I did is because I wanted to convey the nature of the Trinity here on earth at the time of Creation until the birth of Christ.

I think all Christians know that what we call the “Trinity” has always exsisted in God. God is not bound by time, no beginning and no end.

We however, did not know God The Father, God The Son and God The Holy Spirit at the time the Commandments were written. That first sentence is the whole point.

It was meant to be figurative without saying so because to say so would actually refute the point. That is why the Trinity is a Mystery. It’s a circular argument kind of like the chicken and the egg.

The principle is not the revelation that there are Three Gods in One, but a part of that One is our Savior and He needs to be recognized in the Third Commandment and on the Lord’s Day, not the Sabbath.

 

[ralphinal]

Overall, corrections taken into account, I really like it.

Very good!!!

 

[cascherman]

It is a way of explaining it I have not heard before. Good work.

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Overall, corrections taken into account, I really like it.

Very good!!!

I totally agree that this is such an important way to view the sabbath/sunday issue in light of the third commandment and how it applies in both the old and new covenants!! Being a former SDA this has been a very blessed point to meditate upon!!

Also, HappilyCatholic, I pointed out in the other thread regarding saturday and sunday as the sabbath, your statement about the Trinity…but having read your clarification in this thread, I understand what you meant to say.

You may want to copy your explanation from this thread and paste it in a reply to me in the other thread so everyone will understand what you meant!

God bless all!!!

 

[Genesis315]

I read something along these lines recently by St. Peter Damian. He was explaining how Jesus fulfilled the law. In partular he said the Sabbath was a day of rest, but we find true and eternal rest in Jesus.

“Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.”

 

[happilycatholic]

I totally agree that this is such an important way to view the sabbath/sunday issue in light of the third commandment and how it applies in both the old and new covenants!! Being a former SDA this has been a very blessed point to meditate upon!!

Also, HappilyCatholic, I pointed out in the other thread regarding saturday and sunday as the sabbath, your statement about the Trinity…but having read your clarification in this thread, I understand what you meant to say.

You may want to copy your explanation from this thread and paste it in a reply to me in the other thread so everyone will understand what you meant!

God bless all!!!

Thanks! I hope this creates some discussion among the folks on here.

I will check on the other thread.

Peace Be With You!