Saturday Vigil Mass Times

[JoeFreedom]

My wife’s family is in Des Moines, Iowa, and when we travel there to visit her family, we attend the church she went to growing up. However, not being a cradle Catholic, my understanding is that Saturday vigil masses must start on or after 5pm. However, the Saturday mass there is always at 4:30 pm. Is there a dispensation that the father can get for every Sunday throughout the year? And if so, why would that be done and granted?

Is this licit and/or valid?

 

[MT1926]

Don’t quote me on this but I am pretty sure the time of the vigil mass is at the discretion of the Bishop and cannot be early than 4:00 pm.

All of the vigil masses here in the Pittsburgh area usually start at 4:00 om.

 

[MrZoom]

It depends on the diocese, I think. Some allow the Saturday anticipated Mass to begin as early as 4:00 p.m. Others have their earliest at 5:00 p.m.

 

[FrDavid96]

My wife’s family is in Des Moines, Iowa, and when we travel there to visit her family, we attend the church she went to growing up. However, not being a cradle Catholic, my understanding is that Saturday vigil masses must start on or after 5pm. However, the Saturday mass there is always at 4:30 pm. Is there a dispensation that the father can get for every Sunday throughout the year? And if so, why would that be done and granted?

Is this licit and/or valid?

Canon 1248 says “vespere” which means (loosely) evening in English.

Vespere corresponds to 4 PM on the modern clock, so 4:30 is fine.

The ancient Church had times of day that they borrowed from the Romans. These are based on a clock that we no longer use. The Roman clock had exactly 12 hours of night and 12 hours of day every day. That means that the length of each hour varied from one day to the next. A hour of day is longer in the summer than it is in the winter.

Since our modern day hours are fixed-length, it’s simply impossible to have a list of modern times that correspond exactly to the ancient markers.

Nevertheless, there are generally accepted times that match-up (roughly) to the ancient markers, and vespers is said to be 4:00 PM.

 

[1ke]

my understanding is that Saturday vigil masses must start on or after 5pm

This is not correct. The law doesn’t specify a time. It says evening— In the Latin it says vespere, which means evening and loosely correlates with vespers (which are typically said at around 4 pm).

4 pm is typically considered the earliest but you will see arguments otherwise.

Is this licit and/or valid?

Yes.

 

[FrDavid96]

This is not correct. The law doesn’t specify a time. It says evening— In the Latin it says vespere, which means evening and loosely correlates with vespers (which are typically said at around 4 pm).

4 pm is typically considered the earliest but you will see arguments otherwise.

This is where I have to disagree. (while still agreeing with your conclusion that 430 is licit)

You say that the law does not specify a time. Then say that it says evening/vespere.

The word “vespere” is indeed a time-of-day in Latin. So the canon does specify a time of day.

What the canon does not say is how to translate the word “vespere” into a modern clock where the hours are fixed-length.

 

[1ke]

Ok, what I meant by time was an actual, modern start time like “5 pm”.

Vespere isn’t really a time because we don’t use the ancient reckoning of hours.