Saturday vigil mass

[Chatter163]

**The Masses are now Anticipated Masses for the following day with the exception of Easter. The liturgical reforms of Paul VI took these vigils off the calendar and made them the Anticipated Mass for the feast, which satisfies the obligation for those that are Holy Days of obligation. **

Then someone had best tell the Holy See, because the evening Masses the day before the feasts of the Assumption, Christmas, Pentecost, Ascension, Nativity of St. John the Baptist, and the Feast of Ss. Peter & Pau, are all marked in the present Roman Missal of Paul VI (Sacramentary) as “Vigil Masses.” Even in the Latin edition of the current missal, each of the above feasts includes a Missam ad Vigilia. Apparently those Roman guys missed that directive of yours.

 

[Lorrie]

I’m lucky that I never ever have to work weekends. Here lately my routine has been me going to Sunday Mass about 3 times out of the month and then a Saturday Mass 1 time of the month.

At our parish we don’t have as many people on Saturdays like we do on Sundays, I love the quietness, it just seems more personal to me when there aren’t that many people there. Then again, I get a lot of the quietness during the week too since I usually go to Mass on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Fridays at noon.

It really makes me wonder though: how many people would actually be there on Saturday if they didn’t have anything to do on Sunday? Like, what if they changed the rules to where in order for someone to go to Vigil Mass on Saturday and fulfill their obligation they would have to have a valid excuse (work, etc.) for having to miss Sunday? I wonder what people’s reaction would be to that.

I remember talking to my mom on the phone and she asked me which Mass I was going to that certain weekend. I told her I was going on Saturday and that it would fill my obligation. She got really angry with me, almost scolding me, saying that I should never look at Saturday or Sunday Mass as an obligation, that only going out of obligation is going for all the wrong reasons. I agreed with her and apologized for saying what I did. That weekend I went to both Saturday and Sunday Mass while begging God to forgive me for the poor attitude I had.

 

[muledog]

The Masses are now Anticipated Masses for the following day with the exception of Easter. The liturgical reforms of Paul VI took these vigils off the calendar and made them the Anticipated Mass for the feast, which satisfies the obligation for those that are Holy Days of obligation. Going to Mass on Christmas Eve in the days before the liturgical reforms did not satisfy the obligation to hear Mass on Christmas, whereas now it does satisfy the obligation.

I was at the Mass for the Vigil of Pentecost in the Tridentine rite this year. All the Vigil Masses are the same as daily and Sunday Masses with the exception of the Easter Vigil. The only Mass where the Church keeps vigil is the Easter Vigil. Again, the rest are now Anticipated Masses.

Nope, I just checked our parish Sacramentary, and all of these feasts are still listed as “Vigils”, and have completely different “propers” for the Mass as do the corresponding Feasts themselves.

 

[Anima_Christi]

Couldn’t people that have a job requiring them to work on Sunday (such as doctors, nurses, firefighters, policemen, etc.) simply receive a dispensation not to attend Sunday Mass?
It just seems that if we have a Saturday evening mass that counts for Sunday, shouldn’t we have a Friday evening mass that counts for the Saturday evening mass that counts for Sunday? Some people must work Saturdays and Sundays.
It just seems to me that allowing the Sunday obligation to be fulfilled on Saturday takes away from Sunday’s sanctity or something . . . I occasionally attend the vigil mass but I still feel like I’ve missed out by the time Sunday evening rolls around.

 

[Anima_Christi]

Couldn’t people that have a job requiring them to work on Sunday (such as doctors, nurses, firefighters, policemen, etc.) simply receive a dispensation not to attend Sunday Mass?
It just seems that if we have a Saturday evening mass that counts for Sunday, shouldn’t we have a Friday evening mass that counts for the Saturday evening mass that counts for Sunday? Some people must work Saturdays and Sundays.
It just seems to me that allowing the Sunday obligation to be fulfilled on Saturday takes away from Sunday’s sanctity or something . . . I occasionally attend the vigil mass but I still feel like I’ve missed out by the time Sunday evening rolls around.

 

[RPC717]

If the Church says Saturday evening Mass is Sunday Mass, that’s good enough for me. I like to see the Church having so many members that so many Masses have to be offered.

Sure, lots of people attend on Saturday so they can “go to church” without having to be inconvenienced on Sunday. Lots of people come to Mass and leave after communion - we sneer at them, too, but they did better than a lot of people (and better than I did for most of my life). I was once a member of a parish where the priest liked to have a little longer Mass. After one 1 hour 20 minute Mass, a man in the bathroom was railing about how “this is BS!” I was appalled, but I hope he came back, even if it was on Saturday.

If someone comes to Mass with an attitude that our Lord doesn’t like, He’ll sort it out at the end.

 

[MaryAgnes]

Anima Christi:

Couldn’t people that have a job requiring them to work on Sunday (such as doctors, nurses, firefighters, policemen, etc.) simply receive a dispensation not to attend Sunday Mass?
It just seems that if we have a Saturday evening mass that counts for Sunday, shouldn’t we have a Friday evening mass that counts for the Saturday evening mass that counts for Sunday? Some people must work Saturdays and Sundays.
It just seems to me that allowing the Sunday obligation to be fulfilled on Saturday takes away from Sunday’s sanctity or something . . . I occasionally attend the vigil mass but I still feel like I’ve missed out by the time Sunday evening rolls around.

If the Church in her wisdom (She IS guided by the Holy Spirit, after all) sees the benefit to having an anticipatory Mass on the Vigil, what is the fuss? No one is preventing anyone from attending on Sunday if they so choose

 

[Olympia]

tee_eff_em:

Let me say up front: I believe and affirm that vigil Masses are perfectly legitimate. And they do serve a to fill a wonderful need – To provide the opportunity to fulfill the Sunday Obligation for those who may be prevented from doing so on the following day.

But I also admit that I wish they were not so “regular” – I know for a fact that not every attendant at my own parish’s very crowded vigil Mass would be otherwise prevented from worship on the following day. Many people, I am sure, attend as a scheduling convenience – Go to Mass, go out to dinner/other entertainment, sleep in on Sunday and don’t let God get in the way*.

So, vigils are legitimate, but the regularity of attendance just rubs me the wrong way. Call it a gut feeling.

In my area, there are a handful of nearby parishes which offer a Sunday evening Mass (which is also a blessing at times). I kind of wish vigils were offered by a only handful too, for those who need them, but not at every single parish.

(* While I try to not actively judge others, I know I myself held such an attitude earlier in my life )

tee

Thank you for this post. I have exactly the same thoughts as you so accurately have written. You have saved me the trouble of composing a long essay! I also speak for the viewpoint of “one who has been there.” I realized that I really wasn’t “keeping holy the Lord’s Day.” There was no “Sabbath” equvalent or Sabbath experience in my life. I was justifying Sat. Vigil Mass by saying I had to work on Sunday long past the time I really HAD to work on Sundays. It really was just for my convenience. As you said, Mass, dinner, sleep late Sunday morning. Also, at this time, I was “shopping around” for a new parish, for about 10 years. Never did find one. Finally my conscience woke up and told me I was only following the letter of the law, not the spirit. Through a remarkable series of circumstances, I now go to a Greek Melchite Church. Divine Liturgy takes up the whole morning, fellowship afterwards follows. I have done almost a 360 degree (or is it 180 degrees in attitude readjustment. Praise God!

 

[Detroit_Sue]

I take my 80 year old dad to Mass every week. He prefers Saturday, when the church isn’t so crowded, because he has become blind and gets very nervous in large crowds. We have now started a little tradition - the kids & I all go to Mass with him, my husband meets up with us after Saturday Mass at his parish, and we go to dinner. It makes him happy, and he fulfills his Sunday obligation. I don’t know how much longer I have him for, and my kids (young men - ages 22 & 19) adore him. My dad was away from the Sacraments for nearly 40 years. I’m happy to take him whenever he wants to go.

 

[Michael_Welter]

Detroit Sue:

My dad was away from the Sacraments for nearly 40 years. I’m happy to take him whenever he wants to go.

That’s SO awesome. I’m fighting back tears from your post. Thanks.

 

[Steve-o]

It’s bad enough that churches are no longer open to the faithful 24/7 like in days past, owing to vandals and those who might otherwise desecrate her. I’m more than happy that there is a Saturday vigil.

 

[JC_Nixon]

Originally Posted by tee_eff_em
Let me say up front: I believe and affirm that vigil Masses are perfectly legitimate. And they do serve a to fill a wonderful need – To provide the opportunity to fulfill the Sunday Obligation for those who may be prevented from doing so on the following day.

But I also admit that I wish they were not so “regular” – I know for a fact that not every attendant at my own parish’s very crowded vigil Mass would be otherwise prevented from worship on the following day. Many people, I am sure, attend as a scheduling convenience – Go to Mass, go out to dinner/other entertainment, sleep in on Sunday and don’t let God get in the way*.

So, vigils are legitimate, but the regularity of attendance just rubs me the wrong way. Call it a gut feeling.

rcn:

Your gut is giving you a feeling that, quite frankly, you have no business having.

Since when is it up to ANYONE to question anyone’s motive for attending mass on Saturday? It is offered as a fully valid way to satisfy the Sunday obligation, with absolutely no strings attached. Your assertion that one ought to attend only on Sunday unless truly prevented from doing so, seems to have no basis.

Geez, rcn, why the hostility?

I used to attend the vigil Mass (5:30) for many of the reasons described, because it was convenient, I could sleep in on Sunday, have a leisurely breakfast and a quiet day. Did it make my observation of the Sunday obligation less significant because of the reasons why I chose the Mass time I chose? No. Was it a selfish reason? Yes. And therein lies the problem, it was a selfish action on my part.

It was an observation made by someone who used to attend the vigil Mass, and in many cases it is probably correct. But it is not for us to judge anyone’s reasons why they attend the Mass they attend. If they chose a particular Mass time for convenience sake that is between them and God to sort out their reasons. But I suspect most people don’t realize that their choice might be of a selfish nature.

Our vigil Mass in FL is at 4:00. Why? Because the seniors like to go to Sat vigil and then get to the restaurant for the ‘early bird special’ that goes off at 6:00 - don’t get in the way in the parking lot! Don’t believe it? Ask any number of the seniors, they will tell you so themselves. That’s their business, not mine. Many of these lovely people also attend daily Mass, pray the rosary daily, take Eucharist to the sick - should I go on??

Could we all be more aware of our attitude about why we choose the Mass time we do? Sure. Guess the original point that was trying to be made is, we should be conscious of our reasons for many things we do, and they should all be done with the Will of God in mind.

 

[puzzleannie]

the ordo for the Mass, the rubrics, missal, the lectionary, the sacramentary, the approved translations of scripture for public reading and teaching, the requirements for observation of holy days, time parameters for Sunday Masses, and all the other canons, disciplines and regulations for the conduct of the sacred liturgy are decided and promulgated by the magesterial authority of the Church founded by Jesus Christ, handed on through the apostles and protected by the Holy Spirit. These are not subject to a vote, are not intended to conform to individual personal preferences and sensibilities, but to assure reverent conduct of the liturgy and sacraments and making them available to all properly disposed Catholics.

My dad used to have a saying about those Catholics who made a point of publicly and loudly doing more than was obligated, or adopting disciplines and practices no longer mandatory (like hats for ladies) in a manner that was intended to cast aspersions on less rigid practices: more Catholic than the Popel.

 

[rcn]

JC Nixon:

I used to attend the vigil Mass (5:30) for many of the reasons described, because it was convenient, I could sleep in on Sunday, have a leisurely breakfast and a quiet day. Did it make my observation of the Sunday obligation less significant because of the reasons why I chose the Mass time I chose? No. Was it a selfish reason? Yes. And therein lies the problem, it was a selfish action on my part.

I fail to see any “selfishness”. You fulfilled your Sunday obligation. So what is the issue here? Why are you attaching “conditions” to your choice of Mass? Looking to feel guilty for no good reason?

The initial post of the thread is that vigil masses ought to be abolished, that attending on Sunday is preferable. Nobody has posted a convincing reason for this, however. The Church allows the Saturday vigil, and to doubt its wisdom in any way seems to me to be a bigger problem than anyone’s reason for attending Saturday vigil mass.

 

[bear06]

puzzleannie:

the ordo for the Mass, the rubrics, missal, the lectionary, the sacramentary, the approved translations of scripture for public reading and teaching, the requirements for observation of holy days, time parameters for Sunday Masses, and all the other canons, disciplines and regulations for the conduct of the sacred liturgy are decided and promulgated by the magesterial authority of the Church founded by Jesus Christ, handed on through the apostles and protected by the Holy Spirit. These are not subject to a vote, are not intended to conform to individual personal preferences and sensibilities, but to assure reverent conduct of the liturgy and sacraments and making them available to all properly disposed Catholics.

My dad used to have a saying about those Catholics who made a point of publicly and loudly doing more than was obligated, or adopting disciplines and practices no longer mandatory (like hats for ladies) in a manner that was intended to cast aspersions on less rigid practices: more Catholic than the Popel.

I don’t mean to quibble here because I see what you are going for but not all of your above is protected by the Holy Spirit. That said, the Pope has the authority to decide, not us, as shown in Pastor Aeternus. Please read this to see where our obedience lies. I’m sure it won’t please some! ewtn.com/faith/teachings/papae1.htm

 

[davy39]

Anima Christi:

Couldn’t people that have a job requiring them to work on Sunday (such as doctors, nurses, firefighters, policemen, etc.) simply receive a dispensation not to attend Sunday Mass?
It just seems that if we have a Saturday evening mass that counts for Sunday, shouldn’t we have a Friday evening mass that counts for the Saturday evening mass that counts for Sunday? Some people must work Saturdays and Sundays.
It just seems to me that allowing the Sunday obligation to be fulfilled on Saturday takes away from Sunday’s sanctity or something . . . I occasionally attend the vigil mass but I still feel like I’ve missed out by the time Sunday evening rolls around.

What is the matter with you people? Why make a mountain out of a molehill? The saturday evening Mass is just as holy and legitimate and the sunday Mass. As a cradle Catholic, I can remember the days when there was no saturday Mass, and if you had to work on sunday, you had a choice of missing Mass or losing you job. Thank goodness it was changed. We question everything the church does. That’s why were in the shape we’re in.

 

[Pug]

The Saturday evening mass is a lifesaver for my family. We’ve gone for over 10 years now, as there are only about 2 Sunday’s a year that we can go as a family. Of course, IF we wanted to go separately, and not as a family, then there would only be one of us going Sat eve.

It had never crossed my mind that people would think less of me for this.

Anyhoo, it has worked great for me, as I can be an RCIA team person since I can attend mass on Sat, so that when the RCIA folks leave the Sunday mass at the halfway point, I can walk out because I’ve already done my mass obligation.

I went to church every Sunday morning for years, and it was a hard adjustment to switch to Sat. I think Sunday eve would feel just as out of place to me (relative to my childhood).

My reasons for going on Sat have absolutely nothing to do with convenience or my plans to go to a game or something on Sunday. In fact, from a convenience standpoint, it is annoyingly located in the middle of dinner. Later would be better. Like maybe 7-8pm.

 

[MaryAgnes]

Pug:

The Saturday evening mass is a lifesaver for my family. We’ve gone for over 10 years now, as there are only about 2 Sunday’s a year that we can go as a family. Of course, IF we wanted to go separately, and not as a family, then there would only be one of us going Sat eve.

It had never crossed my mind that people would think less of me for this.

Anyhoo, it has worked great for me, as I can be an RCIA team person since I can attend mass on Sat, so that when the RCIA folks leave the Sunday mass at the halfway point, I can walk out because I’ve already done my mass obligation.

I went to church every Sunday morning for years, and it was a hard adjustment to switch to Sat. I think Sunday eve would feel just as out of place to me (relative to my childhood).

My reasons for going on Sat have absolutely nothing to do with convenience or my plans to go to a game or something on Sunday. In fact, from a convenience standpoint, it is annoyingly located in the middle of dinner. Later would be better. Like maybe 7-8pm.

:clapping: I applaud you, Pug, for your involvement in RCIA. I’m sure you are a valued member of your team. It’s not always easy to find people who will leave with the catecheumens at their dismissal for Breaking Open the Word precisely because it requires the leader to go to another Mass besides!

 

[anJayRN]

Wow, People here don’t like the Sat. Mass? I’m shocked! With all the trouble in the world and our church, is this a major issue? I didn’t know it was controversial at all. Wow, this is really surprising.

 

[davy39]

anJayRN:

Wow, People here don’t like the Sat. Mass? I’m shocked! With all the trouble in the world and our church, is this a major issue? I didn’t know it was controversial at all. Wow, this is really surprising.

I don’t see any problem at all. In fact, I have to work today, so we went last nite to our sister parish which has Mass at 5:00. What a lifesaver!