Saudis to lash 75-year-old woman for mingling

[chrisse]

It is almost impossible for a woman to prove rape under Islamic fiqh. As, in Pakistan, under the infamous hudood laws, she must produce four witnesses. Failure to do so, then effectively the woman has admitted adultery and is charged and imprisoned.

Recently, a woman met a young man in Saudi Arabia in a car. She, and the young man were gang raped. The offenders were charged, but so was she for meeting with the young man. There was no consideration that she may have already suffered enough. No, not under allah’s justice system.

Technically, what Muslim Woman said was correct. In practice however, it is impossible for a woman to get justice (unless she is a woman of influence through her family).

 

[xyneshia]

Muslim Woman,
peace,
Please a yes or no, Do you think that her punishment is just given what we know happened? Not according to Saudi laws but according to Islam only. Thank you
Rachel

 

[jediliz]

How would it be adultery? The woman is a** 75 year old Widow. **

Adultery is usually when a man or a woman is having relations with a person of the opposite sex that is not their spouse.

So because there were no relatives around when the young men brought her food, they were arrested.

I’ll just say I am glad I am Catholic and not Muslim…

 

[Auriel]

It is almost impossible for a woman to prove rape under Islamic fiqh. As, in Pakistan, under the infamous hudood laws, she must produce four witnesses. Failure to do so, then effectively the woman has admitted adultery and is charged and imprisoned.

Recently, a woman met a young man in Saudi Arabia in a car. She, and the young man were gang raped. The offenders were charged, but so was she for meeting with the young man. There was no consideration that she may have already suffered enough. No, not under allah’s justice system.

RE the case you are referring too, there was such an outcry even from the West that King Abdullah pardoned her. The White House even called the sentence outrageous.

It was sickening. She had recently married and went to the car only to retrieve a picture of herself. She and the male were held up at knife point, driven in a secluded area where others were waiting, a total of 7 against 2, and both were raped.

Her and the companion were both sentenced for meeting and being unrelated. What made me so angry is that at first she was sentenced to 90 lashes. When she appealed they raised it to 200 lashes and a 6 month prison sentence for trying to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media.

They do not like it when these things are talked about openly. It shows them in a poor light. Which is why I am hoping there is enough outrage over this elderly woman’s plight that she is spared.

Another Saudi girl was sentenced last month to a year in prison and 100 lashes for being gang raped. Oh, officially it was after confessing to having “forced intercourse”. This case resulted in a pregnancy. She is in jail right now. They will wait until she delivers her baby to beat her.

I wonder if the religious police are going more hard nosed because the King dismissed a few from office and replaced them with more moderates.

He also announced plans last month to reshuffle the Cabinet. Quite a few of the hard liners will be replaced. A princess in the royal family has also stated publicly that she supports the right of women to drive.

I think because so much of this is a power struggle and a control issue between the conservatives and moderates that they are tightening their grip.

I really hope various woman’s groups will put aside whatever differences they have just this once and pull together for this little widowed grandmotherly woman.

Prayers for her.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Muslim Woman,
peace,
Please a yes or no, Do you think that her punishment is just given what we know happened? Not according to Saudi laws but according to Islam only. Thank you
Rachel

I answered already: to my best of knowledge , there is no punishment prescribed in Quran or hadith if they only talked & they came to give her food.

 

[Sam_777]

Actually our clerics are literally implementing the Islamic sharia, here is an authentic hadith where Muhammed states that a woman can not be with a strange man without an adult from her side (Arabic: Dhu-Muhram).

**
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 160: **
“The Prophet said, “No man should stay with a lady in seclusion except in the presence of a Dhu-Muhram.” A man stood up and said, “O Allah’s Apostle! My wife has gone out intending to perform the Hajj and I have been enrolled (in the army) for such-and-such campaign.” The Prophet said, "Return and perform the Hajj with your wife.”

صحيح البخاري:
عن النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏قال ‏ ‏لا يخلون رجل بامرأة إلا مع ذي محرم فقام رجل فقال يا رسول الله امرأتي خرجت حاجة واكتتبت في غزوة كذا وكذا قال ارجع فحج مع امرأتك ‏
​

(E) (A)

However, I totally agree that no bad deeds could come from a 75 old lady, and I strongly believe that she would be thinking of Allah at that age NOT sex, but what to say this is Islam .

 

[ryck]

"CAIRO - A 75-year-old widow in Saudi Arabia has been sentenced to 40 lashes and four months in jail for mingling with two young men who are not close relatives, drawing new criticism for the kingdom’s ultraconservative religious police and judiciary.

The woman’s lawyer told The Associated Press on Monday that he would appeal the verdict against Khamisa Sawadi, who is Syrian but was married to a Saudi. The attorney, Abdel Rahman al-Lahem, said the verdict issued March 3 also demands that Sawadi be deported after serving her sentence."

msnbc.msn.com/id/29601858/

Another example of irrational Islam!

 

[Kaninchen]

There may be many things wrong with Western societies but at least religion/state-sponsored granny-bashing died out centuries ago.

 

[rotlex]

this is sickening…

It’s sick, barbaric, and only once again shows the true nature of the “peaceful” Islam.

 

[Dirk_Skene]

There may be many things wrong with Western societies but at least religion/state-sponsored granny-bashing died out centuries ago.

I don’t think their system of justice advanced out of the 7th century

 

[pjk123]

Oh Jesus,this much cruelty this barbaric religion brings to Earth.This is not 7th century.
and Beating a old helpless women makes allah(moon god) happy?

 

[dzheremi]

This is the sort of thing I wish I could ask my Saudi friends about, but our discussions of politics or religion do not breach SA “justice”, since they are aware of how negatively it is seen in the outside world. I have asked one in the past about treatment of women in Saudi, hoping to elicit some opinion on the religious police (since obviously other places, even in the Islamic world, do not have such official institutions), but the most they would say is that while a women does not have the freedom to do or wear anything they would like as in the west, the good normative social pressures in SA mean that a woman probably won’t have to worry about being harassed in a mall by a man looking to get her phone number, as might happen here. He pointed out that a while ago when that very thing happened in a Saudi shopping mall, the woman shot the man!

Obviously, there is little room for any sense of “collective needs vs. individual rights compromise” in such a rigid society…so this poor woman must be beaten for what? Harming the society in some way? What COULD have happened if she was with these two men? She is 75 years old! This is purely stupid legalism, and not the sort of thing that I would imagine that most Muslims find acceptable in the name of their religion. Unfortunately, in SA it is apparently not possible to challenge the institution of the religious police publicly, but I hope that this case becomes another public relations nightmare for the Kingdom…it is the best thing that can happen for the barbarians who prescribe this kind of “justice” that has turned Saudi Arabia into the shame of the Muslims all around the world.

How can such an unholy state be the legitimate protector of the two “holiest” cities in all of Islam? What a great shame for all the good people I have met among the Saudi nationals here.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

… Beating a old helpless women makes allah(moon god) happy?

lol , Allah is not moon god . Islamic laws are to punish sinners , not to hurt any innocent people. If any Judge fails to carry out the justice , it’s his/her fault .

 

[ralphinal]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

lol , Allah is not moon god . Islamic laws are to punish sinners , not to hurt any innocent people. If any Judge fails to carry out the justice , it’s his/her fault .

So this woman was a sinner because she had no females willing to help the poor widow get food?

 

[emarc]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

lol , Allah is not moon god . Islamic laws are to punish sinners , not to hurt any innocent people. If any Judge fails to carry out the justice , it’s his/her fault .

from your posts i see you have no problem w/ 40 lashes for the poor 75 yr old woman. how dreadful and sickening your islamic laws are.
God bless.

 

[jen_fla]

Good idea! I have been looking to for petitions or anything that American women can do to help in whatever way we can. There are Saudi women doing what they can as well. Saudi women’s rights activist Wajeha Huwaider has been talking to anyone who will listen. She echoes your statement. That this is like beating a grandmother and it cannot be justified.

I decided to go to Turkish and Egyptian news Sources, since they are secular states more information is released. Usually you will get a clearer picture.

Now I am even more outraged. The young man she breast fed,** Fahd al-Anzi, is her own late husband’s nephew! **THAT is not a close enough relative? So they are saying different rules apply because SHE is not Saudi and she cannot prove she breast fed him. Oh how convenient!

Even if he was not related,(HE WAS), you still don’t beat up women. But they have shown themselves to be hypocrites even by their own standards. Others there see this and it may eventually backfire.

This link is from Cairo AP. google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iV3v9O1nXO1iB7KrOYBi20FUEB5QD96QMCTG0

It was the nephews father who complained! Geez, I wonder who benefits from her being deported?

KUDOS to Saudi journalist** Bandar al-Ammar** for feeling the need to spread the story, "so everybody knows to what degree we have reached."

EDITED TO ADD: Geez, my bad! The other article is from the same source!

I got so worked up the first time over this that I did not focus!

this makes me want to cry. please let us know if you find anyway we can help.

i didn’t see it on the drudge report, so i just sent them an email asking for a post of the story. forward the article to your friends. also if anyone has a digg account go here and give it a digg. the more hits it gets the more people will see it.

digg.com/world_news/Saudis_to_lash_75_year_old_woman_for_mingling

i want to ask everyone on this thread to please stop and say a prayer for her that she escapes this cruelty. where is the mercy we keep hearing about from this religion?

could monopoly money obama do something? i am utterly sickened and saddened.

 

[jen_fla]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

lol , Allah is not moon god . Islamic laws are to punish sinners , not to hurt any innocent people. If any Judge fails to carry out the justice , it’s his/her fault .

muslim woman, please tell me you don’t think this is her fault and that she deserves this!

you know i keep praying for you, because you didn’t come up with these sick ideas on your own, i feel sorry for you that you mistakenly think this is what the loving God wants!..BUT your acceptance of these cruel ideologies is frightening.

i still have not forgotten that you thought death was appropriate for someone that blasphemes or writes bad poetry about God, muhammed or any other innocent muslim

taken from here post #786:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4097238#post4097238

so again, please tell me you do not think an elderly widow should be lashed 40 times for receiving bread from someone?

perhaps you have someone sitting next to you or someone that reads your posts and you are not free to give your opinion. i will keep praying that your perception of God changes for the better because as of now you are being deceived by the greatest of deceivers.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

muslim woman, please tell me you don’t think this is her fault and that she deserves this!

Of Course , she does not deserve it . I mentioned it more than once that just for talking , there is no punishment prescribed in Quran & Hadith.

The news is so confusing . The Judge is punishing an old lady but he did not punish the 2 men . Again I am saying , Islam teaches to punish both men & women if they are sinners. Islamic laws are not to punish innocent or women only.

you know i keep praying for you

Thanks a lot . May God bless you

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your acceptance of these cruel ideologies is frightening

.

punishing sinners are not the cruel ideology . If we don’t punish sinners , they will spread the sins & there will be unrest in the society. If we show sympathy to sinners , others innocents will suffer.

 

[Kaninchen]

punishing sinners are not the cruel ideology . If we don’t punish sinners , they will spread the sins & there will be unrest in the society. If we show sympathy to sinners , others innocents will suffer.

There’s obviously not enough punishing going on in virtually the whole Muslim world then - given the permanent unrest - you have to be a socio-religious prison camp like Saudi, apparently.

 

[jakasaki]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Of Course , she does not deserve it . I mentioned it more than once that just for talking , there is no punishment prescribed in Quran & Hadith.

The news is so confusing . The Judge is punishing an old lady but he did not punish the 2 men . **Again I am saying , Islam teaches to punish both men & women if they are sinners. **Islamic laws are not to punish innocent or women only.

Thanks a lot . May God bless you

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/barakallah.gif

punishing sinners are not the cruel ideology . **If we don’t punish sinners , they will spread the sins & there will be unrest in the society. **If we show sympathy to sinners , others innocents will suffer.

Judge, jury and excecutioners.

People should **not **be in a position or authority to “punish” for sin. It is up to God to determine the fate of the “sinner” not the people.