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JD27076
Guest
Now I do believe we are saved by good works, but at the cross, Jesus said that the thieve was saved too…we know he didn’t do some good works, stealing all the time. So can someone please clarify this.
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Catholic1954
Guest
We are saved by faith and works. We do not know anything about the thief on the cross, if he was stealing all the time or only one time, only that he came to Jesus’s defense when the other thief riduculed him (I would call that a good work) and that he asked Jesus to remember him when he entered his kingdom (that sounds like faith).
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Pee
Guest
God’s Mercy is what saves us not our good works. That’s why to give all we own for this Love is equal to despise it…we can’t buy salvation! Our good works are fruit of this salvation, not the price of it. “O felix colpa!” (Oh happy fault!) We sing on the Easter Vigil because He has paid our debts and therefore we now have access to salvation like He told the thief!
I hope this helps.
I hope this helps.
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teresa_lamb
Guest
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Karen1960
Guest
Actually good works are a result through faith.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them.
Often times you will hear only Ephesians 2: 8-9 many demonations tend to leave this part out
As far as the thief, if Jesus said he would be in paradise with Him, why should we even question Jesus’ decision
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Karen1960
Guest
Also we are not saved by good works alone. An unbeliever can do some wonderful good works, but without faith, it is just (as St. Paul described in his Epistles) filty rags to God.
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Trevor_Stamm
Guest
“Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed”
None of us are truly worthy of salvation, no man can achieve it by himself without God, never. By the infinite mercy and grace of God we are saved, for a stained sinner cannot clean the stains of sin of him/herself or of others. E.g. A cup of water is forever unclean when mixed with dirt, only by an external process of filtration can the water be returned to a state of clensliness.True works proceed from true faith and faith is restored and elevated by works, one cannot exist without the other. It is a hylemorphic nature, works being the bodily action and faith being the soul’s action. Truly remarkable how God created us this way, that the entire faculty of the human, material and immaterial, is used fully to desire forgiveness and partake in the Divine Nature.
None of us are truly worthy of salvation, no man can achieve it by himself without God, never. By the infinite mercy and grace of God we are saved, for a stained sinner cannot clean the stains of sin of him/herself or of others. E.g. A cup of water is forever unclean when mixed with dirt, only by an external process of filtration can the water be returned to a state of clensliness.True works proceed from true faith and faith is restored and elevated by works, one cannot exist without the other. It is a hylemorphic nature, works being the bodily action and faith being the soul’s action. Truly remarkable how God created us this way, that the entire faculty of the human, material and immaterial, is used fully to desire forgiveness and partake in the Divine Nature.
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Calgar
Guest
Wait, wait, wait. You think you can earn your way into heaven?
There is nothing you and I can do to work our way into heaven. We do not deserve it. However, Christ’s sacrafice (and our acceptance of it) is what get’s us “saved”.
Good works are part of it. If a person has truly been transformed by the Holy Spirit there will be good works, or “fruit”, from them.
Although I have no right to cast judgment on anyone (I’m a sinner), I find myself wondering about the pew warmers in our congregations.
Pew Warmer - A person who shows up to church and just warms a pew. Never does any work for, or with, the church.
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tteddy619
Guest
Focusing on the works of the thief isnt the only means. He saw the passion of Christ and came to believe that he suffered unjustly. It was such a WORK of faith to fully accept his own punishment and then pray to Christ asking that he be remembered. Christ then baptized him right then and their. His sins were forgiven him and he was in the state of grace. If you want to get nitty gritty his work was the act of humility. He told the other thief that their punishment was just but “this man has done nothing wrong.” Talk about faith and works. He rebuked his fellow thief and repented himself. Then asked for much needed forgiveness- and in the most humble way a thief could. All during the middle of extreme suffering. Did the theif do it on his own? No. He accepted the grace God sent him. And can you imagine, to be told by God, “Today you will be with me in paradise.”
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TheDoctor
Guest
Hi JD. I see you are going toward RCIA. Welcome Home. Your question is a great one and one that is mis-understood by many both out of (and sadly) within the Church.
As the above posters have pointed out, there is nothing we can do to earn salvation - it is a free gift from God. The good thief is our example of that. He did not do anything at all to earn salvation but received it from Jesus.
What does God require when He gives us this gift? Two things: Faith and Works.
The good thief had faith. What about works? Well, some may argue that since he had not the opportunity to do good works, they were not required of him. I will argue that none of us can judge what good works are. Perhaps that good thief was a righteous and holy man who did many good works for God and His people but turned to evil later in life?
God is merciful and just. He looks at the sum total of our life and I believe that when we are judged we will not only be shown those things that hurt the Lord that we were unaware of but those “good works” that we don’t know of but which God alone sees.
Does that help any my friend?
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Prayer_Warrior
Guest
We are not saved** by** good works, we are not saved by faith. We are saved by the grace of God. Jesus merited salvation for us by atoning for our sins on the cross. HIs blood is the atonement, for without the shedding of blood, there is no atonement of sin (Heb 9:22) Ephesians says we are saved by grace through faith and not of works, etc. You could think of faith as our conduit, so to speak.
There is nothing we can do that can ever, ever, earn our way into heaven so to say we believe in salvation by works is really not correct. This is not to say that good works are not important. Good works animate our faith, and demonstrate that our faith is alive and not dead (Jas 2:17). As someone said before, the works are a fruit of our faith and love (at its root, it is the work of God in our soul). Nothing can be called “good” if it is not done in faith, because “without faith it is impossible to please God”. Heb 11:6
So, bottom line is that God saves us by a free gift of grace merited by Jesus Christ. We absolutely must have living faith for the grace comes through that faith. Our living faith is demonstrated by works. In fact, I don’t think you can even really call belief in God “faith” without the fruit of good works. That is merely “intellectual assent” which is what satan and his minions have.
There is nothing we can do that can ever, ever, earn our way into heaven so to say we believe in salvation by works is really not correct. This is not to say that good works are not important. Good works animate our faith, and demonstrate that our faith is alive and not dead (Jas 2:17). As someone said before, the works are a fruit of our faith and love (at its root, it is the work of God in our soul). Nothing can be called “good” if it is not done in faith, because “without faith it is impossible to please God”. Heb 11:6
So, bottom line is that God saves us by a free gift of grace merited by Jesus Christ. We absolutely must have living faith for the grace comes through that faith. Our living faith is demonstrated by works. In fact, I don’t think you can even really call belief in God “faith” without the fruit of good works. That is merely “intellectual assent” which is what satan and his minions have.
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TimothyH
Guest
This is very true.
And our greatest works, laying down our life for another should we be called to do so, come only through the fullness of faith, AKA faithfullness.
But it all comes from God.
For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work (Philippians 2:13)
-Tim-
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tteddy619
Guest
The conversation went off into a faith and works issue. The issue is about the thief.
The thief was saved because faith is the root. He believed Christ was Lord. OK, done. He got that far. How did he SHOW his faith? What ACTION did he take to justify his salvation? He humbled himself, rebuked his companion and asked for forgiveness. All of this occurred because of God’s grace. However, he could have chosen to reject that grace and not give it a second thought. He received everything he needed then and there. The more common issue with this is when people ask about his temporal punishment. That was up to God. Maybe his suffering on the cross was enough. We dont know. Maybe he spent only a short time in purgatory and then joined Christ THAT day…whatever. The point in it all is that Christ loves the sinner more than any other.
On a side note I want to mention that scripture soesnt mention anything about the blind man at the well. Jesus cured him, the blind man then worshipped him. Was he forgiven of any sin he had though? Was he baptized? It was Christ himself, Im sure the blind man and the thief were doing just fine after their encounters with the Son of God.
The thief was saved because faith is the root. He believed Christ was Lord. OK, done. He got that far. How did he SHOW his faith? What ACTION did he take to justify his salvation? He humbled himself, rebuked his companion and asked for forgiveness. All of this occurred because of God’s grace. However, he could have chosen to reject that grace and not give it a second thought. He received everything he needed then and there. The more common issue with this is when people ask about his temporal punishment. That was up to God. Maybe his suffering on the cross was enough. We dont know. Maybe he spent only a short time in purgatory and then joined Christ THAT day…whatever. The point in it all is that Christ loves the sinner more than any other.
On a side note I want to mention that scripture soesnt mention anything about the blind man at the well. Jesus cured him, the blind man then worshipped him. Was he forgiven of any sin he had though? Was he baptized? It was Christ himself, Im sure the blind man and the thief were doing just fine after their encounters with the Son of God.
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tteddy619
Guest
The conversation went off into a faith and works issue. The issue is about the thief.
The thief was saved because faith is the root. He believed Christ was Lord. OK, done. He got that far. How did he SHOW his faith? What ACTION did he take to justify his salvation? He humbled himself, rebuked his companion and asked for forgiveness. All of this occurred because of God’s grace. However, he could have chosen to reject that grace and not give it a second thought. He received everything he needed then and there. The more common issue with this is when people ask about his temporal punishment. That was up to God. Maybe his suffering on the cross was enough. We dont know. Maybe he spent only a short time in purgatory and then joined Christ THAT day…whatever. The point in it all is that Christ loves the sinner more than any other.
On a side note I want to mention that scripture doesn’t mention anything about the blind man at the well. Jesus cured him, the blind man then worshipped him. Was he forgiven of any sin he had though? Was he baptized? It was Christ himself, Im sure the blind man and the thief were doing just fine after their encounters with the Son of God.
The thief was saved because faith is the root. He believed Christ was Lord. OK, done. He got that far. How did he SHOW his faith? What ACTION did he take to justify his salvation? He humbled himself, rebuked his companion and asked for forgiveness. All of this occurred because of God’s grace. However, he could have chosen to reject that grace and not give it a second thought. He received everything he needed then and there. The more common issue with this is when people ask about his temporal punishment. That was up to God. Maybe his suffering on the cross was enough. We dont know. Maybe he spent only a short time in purgatory and then joined Christ THAT day…whatever. The point in it all is that Christ loves the sinner more than any other.
On a side note I want to mention that scripture doesn’t mention anything about the blind man at the well. Jesus cured him, the blind man then worshipped him. Was he forgiven of any sin he had though? Was he baptized? It was Christ himself, Im sure the blind man and the thief were doing just fine after their encounters with the Son of God.
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Bookcat
Guest
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puzzleannie
Guest
the only good work that saves you is the good work achieved by Jesus Christ in his suffering, death and resurrection. You will be judged on your works, as Jesus says many times, most notably in Matthew 25, the judgement of nations, but not saved thereby.
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Church_Militant
Guest
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thenobes
Guest
We are saved by a faith in Christ that is living. And this faith comes to us as a Grace, an undeserved gift.
Evidently the thief on the Cross received this gift of Grace and accepted it to himself…
Faith, once accepted, must be maintained. From John 6:
'28 Then they asked him, “***What must we do ***to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.’
So we must work to maintain belief; otherwise Jesus would not have responded to the question the way He did.
James says that works make one’s faith perfect. So works in some way cause our faith to reach its liveliest form.
So works, by maintaining a lively faith, keep us saved after we have received faith by baptism.
Paul in Colossians says that God works in us both to will and to do. I beleive that it is the assent of our will to work (actually a work of God) that is the key to keeping our faith alive (besides our observing the results of our work, God’s work, and feeding our faith that way).
However, our resulting actions in no way earn salvation. It is the process of our will assenting to do trhe woorks of God that changes us to images of Christ’s obedience and maintains our faith. Further it builds the image of Christ within us. This image within us the the merit that Trent speaks of when they say by works we merit eternal life.
Now as others have said, the thief took several actions to express remorse and faith in Christ. These may very well have been the urgings of the Holy Spirit, which through the assent of his will kept his faith alive, once God granted it to him.
peace
steve
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