Saved by Faith alone?

[Jim_Baur]

I do not wish to discuss or argue!!!

I just want to see the passage(s) that are used for saved by faith.

THANKS!

 

[Ron_Conte]

Here is a Protestant website, listing verses on being saved by faith:
carm.org/verses-showing-justification-by-faith

The Catholic view is that fallen human persons are saved if and only if they die in the state of grace. That state always includes the three theological virtues: love, faith, hope. So faith, enlivened by love and hope, is salvific.

A person who falls out of the state of grace, by actual mortal sin, may still retain faith. But his faith is dead because it is not accompanied by love and hope.

The good works that James speaks of are the exterior expression of the love of God and neighbor, which enlivens faith, making it salvific.

 

[Jim_Baur]

Ron:

THANKS!!!

 

[mattp0625]

Protestants and nondenominationals often point to Romans 3:28.
This is where Martin Luther literally inserted the word ‘alone’ in his interpretation.

 

[Jim_Baur]

mattp

THANKS!!!

 

[steve_b]

I do not wish to discuss or argue!!!!

I just want to see the passage(s) that are used for saved by faith.

THANKS!

Links are operational for quick context.

Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: it is the power of God for salvation to every one who has faith, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Thessalonians 5:8
But, since we belong to the day, let us be sober, and put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation.

2 Timothy 3:15
and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5
who by God’s power are guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9
As the outcome of your faith you obtain the salvation of your souls.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God—

1 Timothy 2:15
Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.

Jude 1:3
Beloved, being very eager to write to you of our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

*The only place in scripture where “by faith alone” appears is *

James 2:24
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

2 II. INDIVIDUAL SALVATION , & justification

 

[JonNC]

Protestants and nondenominationals often point to Romans 3:28.
This is where Martin Luther literally inserted the word ‘alone’ in his interpretation.

It is import at to point out that no English speaking translation has the word “alone” in the text of Romans 3:28. So, since most nondenominational groups are in America, when the do point to Romans 3:28, it doesn’t have alone in it. That’s because English isn’t German, and German isn’t Latin. It has to do with translation.

I know very well that in Romans 3 the word solum is not in the Greek or Latin text — the papists did not have to teach me that. It is fact that the letters s-o-l-a are not there. And these blockheads stare at them like cows at a new gate, while at the same time they do not recognize that it conveys the sense of the text – if the translation is to be clear and vigorous [klar und gewaltiglich], it belongs there. I wanted to speak German, not Latin or Greek, since it was German I had set about to speak in the translation. But it is the nature of our language that in speaking about two things, one which is affirmed, the other denied, we use the word allein [only] along with the word nicht [not] or kein [no]. For example, we say “the farmer brings allein grain and kein money”; or “No, I really have nicht money, but allein grain”; I have allein eaten and nicht yet drunk"; “Did you write it allein and nicht read it over?” There are countless cases like this in daily usage.

In all these phrases, this is a German usage, even though it is not the Latin or Greek usage. It is the nature of the German language to add allein in order that nicht or kein may be clearer and more complete. To be sure, I can also say, “The farmer brings grain and kein money,” but the words “kein money” do not sound as full and clear as if I were to say, “the farmer brings allein grain and kein money.” Here the word allein helps the word kein so much that it becomes a completely clear German expression. We do not have to ask the literal Latin how we are to speak German, as these donkeys do. Rather we must ask the mother in the home, the children on the street, the common man in the marketplace. We must be guided by their language, by the way they speak, and do our translating accordingly. Then they will understand it and recognize that we are speaking German to them.

From Luther’s Open Letter on Translating.

Jon

 

[Kliska]

Romans 3:19 *Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.*

This is often seen as the “heart of the matter.” Also, when the Greek is examined, the same word is usually used for “believe” as for “faith.”

 

[mattp0625]

It is import at to point out that no English speaking translation has the word “alone” in the text of Romans 3:28. So, since most nondenominational groups are in America, when the do point to Romans 3:28, it doesn’t have alone in it. That’s because English isn’t German, and German isn’t Latin. It has to do with translation.

From Luther’s Open Letter on Translating.

Jon

American nondenominationals follow sola fide. They didn’t originate it. That’s on Luther.

It was invented in the 16th century. That’s 1,500 years after the beginning of Christianity.

English language has little to do with it

 

[JonNC]

American nondenominationals follow sola fide. They didn’t originate it. That’s on Luther.

It was invented in the 16th century. That’s 1,500 years after the beginning of Christianity.

English language has little to do with it

Matt, I think you’re incorrect in all points.
If they are following Luther , ask them if they believe in the real presence, infant baptism, baptismal regeneration , confession, ammillennialism . The fact is most of them have to do with Luther, and they make their own choices. Further, that we are justified by faith is scriptural.

Finally, you brought up language by bringing up translation.

Jon

 

[mattp0625]

Matt, I think you’re incorrect in all points.
If they are following Luther , ask them if they believe in the real presence, infant baptism, baptismal regeneration , confession, ammillennialism . The fact is most of them have to do with Luther, and they make their own choices. Further, that we are justified by faith is scriptural.

Finally, you brought up language by bringing up translation.

Jon

Sorry- all non deniminationals follow sola fide and sola scriptura. They just won’t admit that their beliefs are Protestant because they don’t want labels and brand themselves as a pure relationship.

They also mix in non-traditional Calvinism among other things, but they still keep LUTHER’s solas.

You cannot pin the solas on anyone except Luther.

 

[JonNC]

Sorry- all non deniminationals follow sola fide and sola scriptura. They just won’t admit that their beliefs are Protestant because they don’t want labels and brand themselves as a pure relationship.

They also mix in non-traditional Calvinism among other things, but they still keep LUTHER’s solas.

You cannot pin the solas on anyone except Luther.

What is a Protestant belief? In fact, what they won’t admit is that they follow Luther / Lutheran teaching, mainly because they don’t.
If they mix in, as you say, Calvinism of some sort, then they are not following Luther / Lutheran soteriology

If you are going to “pin” sola fide and sola scriptura on Luther , then accurately say someone is following it, they actually have to follow it.

Jon

 

[mattp0625]

What is a Protestant belief? In fact, what they won’t admit is that they follow Luther / Lutheran teaching, mainly because they don’t.
If they mix in, as you say, Calvinism of some sort, then they are not following Luther / Lutheran soteriology

If you are going to “pin” sola fide and sola scriptura on Luther , then accurately say someone is following it, they actually have to follow it.

Jon

None of this has anything to do with the fact that sola fide was an invention of Luther.

Nondenominational beliefs are a mixture of beliefs from various Protestant denominations. They are essentially additional denominations. It doesn’t really matter if it’s all Lutheran or not.

 

[JonNC]

None of this has anything to do with the fact that sola fide was an invention of Luther.

Nondenominational beliefs are a mixture of beliefs from various Protestant denominations. They are essentially additional denominations. It doesn’t really matter if it’s all Lutheran or not.

True. So they do not follow Luther. I am usually reluctant to quote the numerous Fathers who confirm that it is by grace alone through faith that we are justified, and not by works. That justifying faith is indeed a faith that works through love. These teachings exit from the beginning of the Church. Luther expressed it, but did not invent it.

Jon

 

[mattp0625]

True. So they do not follow Luther. I am usually reluctant to quote the numerous Fathers who confirm that it is by grace alone through faith that we are justified, and not by works. That justifying faith is indeed a faith that works through love. These teachings exit from the beginning of the Church. Luther expressed it, but did not invent it.

Jon

Sorry, but taking a random quote out of context won’t cut it. Protestant historians will fabricate anything to create an illusion of history that’s not there.

 

[Kliska]

Sorry, but taking a random quote out of context won’t cut it. Protestant historians will fabricate anything to create an illusion of history that’s not there.

The quicker folk on “both sides” of this issue realize that is not what is going on with either side, the quicker we brothers and sisters can quit snipping at each other and really start hammering out what each side means and why. Just MHO.

 

[mattp0625]

The quicker folk on “both sides” of this issue realize that is not what is going on with either side, the quicker we brothers and sisters can quit snipping at each other and really start hammering out what each side means and why. Just MHO.

That’s fine, and appreciate your point, but the history is already there

 

[Starwarsfan2]

Sorry, but taking a random quote out of context won’t cut it. Protestant historians will fabricate anything to create an illusion of history that’s not there.

A laughable accusation

 

[mattp0625]

A laughable accusation

A few examples:

Baptist claim apostolic succession through Cathars and Waldo

Lutherans claiming apostolic succession through similar methods

The trail of blood committed by the Catholic Church

The Catholic Church started in the 4th century via Constantine

The bible was randomly collected instead of the Catholic Church defining criteria for inspiration, making the decisions on inspiration, and serving as the bible’s custodian

Luther and Calvin and Wesley (maybe Wycliffe) didn’t originate Protestant doctrine

There was not an authoritative magisterium since the beginning of Christianity

 

[JonNC]

=mattp0625;13641465]A few examples:

Baptist claim apostolic succession through Cathars and Waldo

No idea what their claims are. Maybe you have a link on how they quoted a Church Father out of context. And which Baptist groups claim, much less care about Apostolic Succession.

Lutherans claiming apostolic succession through similar methods

What methods? Please be specific. AFAIK, the Lutherans who claim AS do so either because they have maintained it (Scandinavian national churches), or have acquired it through Anglican lines. Either way, the can prove the lines, whether the CC acknowledges them or not.

The trail of blood committed by the Catholic Church

The Catholic Church started in the 4th century via Constantine

No Lutheran that I know of claims these. Again, how did those who profess this nonsense quote a Father out of context to prove it?

The bible was randomly collected instead of the Catholic Church defining criteria for inspiration, making the decisions on inspiration, and serving as the bible’s custodian

Source.

Luther and Calvin and Wesley (maybe Wycliffe) didn’t originate Protestant doctrine

The problem is there isn’t a Protestant Church. Never was. There are communions of varying origin that are grouped as protestant. But there is not a Protestant Church. It is not an ecclessiastical, institutional entity. so there is not an original protestant doctrine.
There is Lutheran doctrine, as described in the early creeds and the Lutheran symbols. There may be other communions that have their doctrines. Calvinism, for example. But there is no suich thing as The Protestant Church to have a doctrine.

There was not an authoritative magisterium since the beginning of Christianity

Well, certainly its formulation in the early Church was different than that which has authority in the western Catholic Church in communion with the Bishop of Rome. Schism and division has undermined the authority one finds in the early councils of the Church.
But again, what Church Father has been quoted out of context for this?

Jon