Saved By Grace Alone

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Hello everybody 🙂

Hi, i am new here and i just started catholic apologetics two years ago… i need some help.

I have a presbyterian friend who asked me some questions about the Catholic Church. And I was wondering if you guys will please help me to answer him. He asked me,

“When Jesus Christ died on the Cross, it was final and complete. Jesus said it was finished. There is no work we can do to merit and earn salvation, because Jesus did all the work for us on the Cross. and his work was complete. We do not have to do any works for our salvation. We are saved by grace alone.”

Can you guys please help me respond to this.
  1. What is the official Catholic Church’s teaching on the role of Good works in our Salvation?
  2. According to official Catholic doctrine, how is justification fulfilled. How is one saved?
 
Fighter said:
Hello everybody 🙂

Hi, i am new here and i just started catholic apologetics two years ago… i need some help.

I have a presbyterian friend who asked me some questions about the Catholic Church. And I was wondering if you guys will please help me to answer him. He asked me,

“When Jesus Christ died on the Cross, it was final and complete. Jesus said it was finished. There is no work we can do to merit and earn salvation, because Jesus did all the work for us on the Cross. and his work was complete. We do not have to do any works for our salvation. We are saved by grace alone.”

Can you guys please help me respond to this.
  1. What is the official Catholic Church’s teaching on the role of Good works in our Salvation?
  2. According to official Catholic doctrine, how is justification fulfilled. How is one saved?
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Hello Fighter, I will give it a go, and I dont mind being corrected wherever there is a need to do so.
“Teltelestai” (it is finished) These words have many depths/levels of meaning, Yes indeed the work of Redemption has been completed by Jesus. However, this work of redemption has to be applied to each and every life, and each and every life needs to want this redemption (remember free will). Jesus has made all this available but it needs to be the individual whot wants what he Jesus has made available. Applied into each and every life. For this we have the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. We have the Sacraments. The priesthood to lead as shepherds along the journey, We have all the helps needed to reach heaven.
Good works, are just that good works and necessary. However, when we do good works for themselves alone, is one story when we do good works because I love my brother/sister in Jesus Christ, then this has a redemptive quality inherent within it.
Suffering on its own is never what God wants, sffering in union with the suferrings of Jesus can become redemptive.
I hope I have helped in some way,
Blessings
Grace Angel.
 
Fighter said:
“When Jesus Christ died on the Cross, it was final and complete. Jesus said it was finished. There is no work we can do to merit and earn salvation, because Jesus did all the work for us on the Cross. and his work was complete. We do not have to do any works for our salvation. We are saved by grace alone.”
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If Jesus did all the work for us on the cross, what is St. Paul talking about when he speaks of filling up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ?

Colossians 1.24:
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of His body, that is, the church.

Maria
 
Fighter said:
Hello everybody 🙂

Hi, i am new here and i just started catholic apologetics two years ago… i need some help.

I have a presbyterian friend who asked me some questions about the Catholic Church. And I was wondering if you guys will please help me to answer him. He asked me,

“When Jesus Christ died on the Cross, it was final and complete. Jesus said it was finished. There is no work we can do to merit and earn salvation, because Jesus did all the work for us on the Cross. and his work was complete. We do not have to do any works for our salvation. We are saved by grace alone.”

Can you guys please help me respond to this.
  1. What is the official Catholic Church’s teaching on the role of Good works in our Salvation?
  2. According to official Catholic doctrine, how is justification fulfilled. How is one saved?
Click to expand...
The Catholic Church indeed teaches “sola gratia.” She teaches that even the works that vivify (for want of a better word) faith or show it to be operative (not dead, as St. James described) would be impossible to accomplish without God’s Grace working in us. The Council of Trent anathematized anyone who said that we could add anything to what Jesus did for us on the Cross. Of course, it’s a grace with which we must cooperate.
 
Fighter said:
Hello everybody 🙂

Hi, i am new here and i just started catholic apologetics two years ago… i need some help.

I have a presbyterian friend who asked me some questions about the Catholic Church. And I was wondering if you guys will please help me to answer him. He asked me,

“When Jesus Christ died on the Cross, it was final and complete. Jesus said it was finished. There is no work we can do to merit and earn salvation, because Jesus did all the work for us on the Cross. and his work was complete. We do not have to do any works for our salvation. We are saved by grace alone.”

Can you guys please help me respond to this.
  1. What is the official Catholic Church’s teaching on the role of Good works in our Salvation?
  2. According to official Catholic doctrine, how is justification fulfilled. How is one saved?
Click to expand...
5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. 8This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
9"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love. John 15

12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. 14Do everything without complaining or arguing, 15so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe 16as you hold out the word of life—in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing. Phil 2
In the above examples it is God’s grace which enables us to obey Him, however we are not given a free ride. He expects a return of “bearing good fruit” which we produce by obeying Him and keeping His commandments.
 
MTD said:
If Jesus did all the work for us on the cross, what is St. Paul talking about when he speaks of filling up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ?

Colossians 1.24:
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of His body, that is, the church.

Maria
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Wow! thanks that is such a good bible verse 🙂

Wait, when Christ said “it is finished” … what is “it” ?
 
Scripture scholars have spent much time pondering what the phrase “it is finished” means.

Is it salvation? Jesus still needed to die, be buried, descend into hades and rise on the third day.

Hahn [not an un controversial figure] propsed that the “it is finished” referred to the Passover [Last Supper - Institution of the Eucharist] celebrated in the upper room. This based upon the Jewish Seder meal practice seperated by four cups. The third cup, called the cup of blessing; see 1 Corinthians 10
I am speaking as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I am saying. 16 The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.
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was consumed in the upper room.

Jesus drinks from the forth cup, the cup of consummation [the last cup, the end of the Passover or Seder] on the cross; see John Chapter 19
After this, aware that everything was now finished, in order that the scripture might be fulfilled, 12 Jesus said, “I thirst.” 29 There was a vessel filled with common wine. 13 So they put a sponge soaked in wine on a sprig of hyssop and put it up to his mouth. 30 14 When Jesus had taken the wine, he said, “It is finished.” And bowing his head, he handed over the spirit.
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In the Book of Revelation, John provides us a glimpse of the heavenly liturgy. We see the lamp stands, have liturgical readings and see Jesus the High Priest and Jesus the Sacraficial Lamb. This being both high priest and sacrificial lamb is represented in the Last Supper carried out to and including Calvery.

That said, there is no consensus amount scholars …
 
you might reply with something like this:
(although we agree with Grace alone)

The most common defense that I hear from Protestant is their following “proof text”

Eph: 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;it is not from works, so no one may boast.

My only question to you is where does it say “faith alone”?

why don’t you read the entire bible and see that its not faith alone. And anyways, it clearly says that it was GRACE that saved in Ephesians, not “faith alone”

The nature of Salvation is a most confusing subject since many believe that is a “one-time event” or that is only “in the past”. This is not what Christ taught.
Salvation is a 3-dimensional reality with past, present, and, future components.

PAST
Rom 8:24:
For in hope we were saved. Now hope that sees for itself is not hope. For who hopes for what one sees?

Eph. 2:5-8:
even when we were dead in our transgressions, brought us to life with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus,
that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;

Present
1 Cor 1:8:
He will keep you firm to the end, irreproachable on the day of our Lord Jesus (Christ).

2 Cor. 2:15:
For we are the aroma of Christ for God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing,

Future
Rom. 5:9-10:
How much more then, since we are now justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath.
Indeed, if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more, once reconciled, will we be saved by his life.

1 Cor: 3:12-15:
If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw,
the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire (itself) will test the quality of each one’s work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage.

Rom. 13:11:
And do this because you know the time; it is the hour now for you to awake from sleep. For our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed (first believed what?! This is St. Paul, a follower of Christ and he is saying that his salvation is not yet fulfilled…sorry Charlie, salvation is not purely “history” from one point in time onwards)
We are saved by faith alone, and our good works indicate that we possess a truly saving, fruitful faith.
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This follows the logical fallacy of Post hoc ergo propter hoc (or “after this, therefore because of this”)

Look at what can convert a person:

John 10:38:
Code: 
But if I do, though you will not believe me, believe the works: that you may know and believe that the Father is in me and I in the Father.
Interesting how Jesus says we can come to know “that the Father is in me and I in the Father” by a acknowledging of what? Jesus as the Son of God? No, by believing in His works FIRST then the faith of believing in the God-Man will naturally follow. Jesus is telling us something about the importance of works…that it helped grow their faith in Christ. People who pin them against each other or say that one begets the other does not understand that faith and works are ORGANICALLY related and they feed off each other.

Gal 5:6:
“For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision is of any avail, nor uncircumcision, but faith which works through charity.” (charity = Love)

" faith which works through charity" does NOT equal “faith alone”…by definition!

We all know where the only place in the bible that is says “faith alone” and its in James 2:24

The real question is on what criteria is Jesus Christ going to Judge us on?
(funny that I ask that because if you are “saved” in the fundamentalist, Evangelical, born-again sense, you are already assured Heaven right? so whats the point of Judgment? )

Read Apocalypse chapters 2 and 3. Count the number of times Jesus says, “I know your works”. Further, let us get something very clear, faith is defined as an act of the will - it is an act of the intellect assenting to a truth which is beyond its grasp. People have this tendency to mix faith with works. This is not true. You can declare a theological truth but live like a pagan. You can believe that Jesus is God but deny His will. Or the opposite, a pagan can be doing humanitarian work, but not believe. (there is also a reference, but I cannot remember it , where the high priest, was “preaching or speaking wonders about Jesus”)

cont…
 
Here are bunch of Versus that say how critical our works (ie: our morality!) are in our salvation.
Faith and works are both gifts of grace.

Psalm 62:12
For you render to each one according to his works.

Jeremiah 17:10
I the Lord … give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Ezekiel 18:27
When the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness … and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul.

Matthew 5:20
Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 12:37
By your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

Matthew 19:17
If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 25:41-46
Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.‘Then they will answer and say, ’ Lord when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
(nothing in this text suggest these people are trying to deceive Jesus, only that they deceived themselves by not doing the Corporal Works of Mercy…maybe because they believe in faith alone and that they are “saved” and nothing can undue their salvation?),

Luke 10:26-28
He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
(LOVING A PERSON IS NOT FAITH!)

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Romans 2:6, 13
Who will render to each one according to his deeds. … For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified.
( “TO HIS DEEDS” DOES NOT IMPLY FAITH ALONE)

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
(“ACCORDING TO WHAT HE HAS DONE”…IS SAINT PAUL TRYING TO DECEIVE US? WHY WOULDN’T HE JUST SAY “FAITH ALONE” IF HE REALLY MEANT THAT?)

2 Corinthians 11:15
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works .

James 2:14
What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
(HOW CAN THE STATEMENT:
Code: 
We are saved by faith alone, and our good works indicate that we possess a truly  saving, fruitful faith.
BE TRUE SINCE SAINT PAUL MAKING A DISTINCTION BETWEEN “FAITH” AND “WORKS”)

James 2:17
Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

James 2:21-25
Was not Abraham our father justified by works? You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. Likewise, was not Rabab the harlot also justified by works? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
(AND RAHAB, BEING JUSTIFIED BY HER WORKS, MADE IT INTO THE ROYAL GENEALOGY OF CHRIST)

1 Peter 1:17
The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work.

Revelation 2:23
I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Revelation 20:12-13
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Romans 8:24
For in hope we were saved. Now hope that sees for itself is not hope. For who hopes for what one sees? (so is St. Paul saying we even need faith? [clearly, if he meant faith he would have said faith right?] OF COURSE WE DO)
 
and lastly:
(copied from someone’s post):

CCC = Catechism of the Catholic Church
The promise of eternal life is a gift, freely offered to us by God (CCC 1727). Our initial forgiveness and justification are not things we “earn” (CCC 2010). Jesus is the mediator who bridged the gap of sin that separates us from God (1 Tim. 2:5); he bridged it by dying for us. He has chosen to make us partners in the plan of salvation (1 Cor. 3:9).

The Catholic Church teaches what the apostles taught and what the Bible teaches: We are saved by grace alone, but not by faith alone (which is what “Bible Christians” teach; see Jas. 2:24).

When we come to God and are justified (that is, enter a right relationship with God), nothing preceding justification, whether faith or good works, earns grace. But then God plants his love in our hearts, and we should live out our faith by doing acts of love (Gal. 6:2).

Even though only God’s grace enables us to love others, these acts of love please him, and he promises to reward them with eternal life (Rom. 2:6–7, Gal. 6:6–10). Thus good works are meritorious. When we first come to God in faith, we have nothing in our hands to offer him. Then he gives us grace to obey his commandments in love, and he rewards us with salvation when we offer these acts of love back to him (Rom. 2:6–11, Gal. 6:6–10, Matt. 25:34–40).

Jesus said it is not enough to have faith in him; we also must obey his commandments. “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but do not do the things I command?” (Luke 6:46, Matt. 7:21–23, 19:16–21).

We do not “earn” our salvation through good works (Eph. 2:8–9, Rom. 9:16), but our faith in Christ puts us in a special grace-filled relationship with God so that our obedience and love, combined with our faith, will be rewarded with eternal life (Rom. 2:7, Gal. 6:8–9).

Paul said, “God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work” (Phil. 2:13). John explained that “the way we may be sure that we know him is to keep his commandments. Whoever says, ‘I know him,’ but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him” (1 John 2:3–4, 3:19–24, 5:3–4).

Since no gift can be forced on the recipient—gifts always can be rejected—even after we become justified, we can throw away the gift of salvation. We throw it away through grave (mortal) sin (John 15:5–6, Rom. 11:22–23, 1 Cor. 15:1–2; CCC 1854–1863). Paul tells us, “The wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23).

Read his letters and see how often Paul warned Christians against sin! He would not have felt compelled to do so if their sins could not exclude them from heaven (see, for example, 1 Cor. 6:9–10, Gal. 5:19–21).

Paul reminded the Christians in Rome that God “will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life for those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness” (Rom. 2:6–8).

Sins are nothing but evil works (CCC 1849–1850). We can avoid sins by habitually performing good works. Every saint has known that the best way to keep free from sins is to embrace regular prayer, the sacraments (the Eucharist first of all), and charitable acts.

I’m not sure if this is what you wanted really, but I imagine the convo will eventually turn this way if this guy is hard core protestant. You might also want to see those articles on my signatures for more of these type of apologetics.

God Bless
 
Oh! God Bless All Your Souls!

You have given me such wonderful answers! Yay!

i have another question though,

My Presbyterian friend says that we are saved by grace alone. I have also heard that we catholic believe we are saved by grace alone.
  1. What are the differences?
  2. What are the similarities?
Oh thank you so much!
 
Fighter said:
Oh! God Bless All Your Souls!

You have given me such wonderful answers! Yay!

i have another question though,

My Presbyterian friend says that we are saved by grace alone. I have also heard that we catholic believe we are saved by grace alone.
  1. What are the differences?
  2. What are the similarities?
Oh thank you so much!
Click to expand...
Hello,

Please read HailMary’s post #10:

"
PAST
Rom 8:24:
For in hope we were saved. Now hope that sees for itself is not hope. For who hopes for what one sees?

Eph. 2:5-8:
even when we were dead in our transgressions, brought us to life with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus,
that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;
"

This is what both Protestant and Catholics agree. But Protestants fail to see the necessity of the present and future state of salvation stated on the Bible. If you continue to read her post it will help clarify things for you.

I will pray for you and your protestant friend.

Thanks,

Luiz
 
Wow, there is a ton of great response material here! I will make mine short.

First read this…

Eph: 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith,…

Now read this…

Jms 2:17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

So, grace is OFFERED by God and we can ACCEPT it - if we choose - through faith. But, since faith without works is dead…well, no works means no faith means no grace means no salvation. Put it together. It fits.
 
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