Saved by love only?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jim_Baur
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Jim_Baur

Guest
And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life …. Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

The Samaritan was not Christian nor Jewish, but he inherited eternal life.

How has this ideas been addressed in the Christian Churches?

I am curious about it not to start an agrument, but to obtain information about the validity of my understanding. I am really aware of the weakness of my academic abilities. Therefore I am hoping to receive data about our Christain histroy of this passage.
THANKS!!!
 
Jim_Baur said:
And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life …. Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

The Samaritan was not Christian nor Jewish, but he inherited eternal life.

How has this ideas been addressed in the Christian Churches?

I am curious about it not to start an agrument, but to obtain information about the validity of my understanding. I am really aware of the weakness of my academic abilities. Therefore I am hoping to receive data about our Christain histroy of this passage.

THANKS!!!
Click to expand...
All Christian Churches? Don’t know. Catholic Church? That would be addressed in the Catechism. The truth is written on all men’s hearts and that man responded to that truth. He was saved through Christ.
 
Jim_Baur said:
And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life …. Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

The Samaritan was not Christian nor Jewish, but he inherited eternal life.

How has this ideas been addressed in the Christian Churches?

I am curious about it not to start an agrument, but to obtain information about the validity of my understanding. I am really aware of the weakness of my academic abilities. Therefore I am hoping to receive data about our Christain histroy of this passage.
THANKS!!!
Click to expand...
I wonder if this “certain lawyer” was satan. I guess you gave me something to look into tonight. I just wish you had referenced the passages, but I am sure they will pop up in a simple search. I do recall hearing them, but not reading them yet. I’m just starting my bible reading.
 
Jim_Baur said:
And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life …. Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

The Samaritan was not Christian nor Jewish, but he inherited eternal life.

How has this ideas been addressed in the Christian Churches?

I am curious about it not to start an agrument, but to obtain information about the validity of my understanding. I am really aware of the weakness of my academic abilities. Therefore I am hoping to receive data about our Christain histroy of this passage.
THANKS!!!
Click to expand...
You are trying to link two unrelated passages from scripture.

Also, Jesus did not say the Samaritan had inherited eternal life. The purpose of the parable was to answer the question “who is my neighbour”, i.e. who made the act of kindness (love if you like).

I’m not sure what your point is unless you want to discuss invincible ignorance which is living a life according to the teachings of Christ without knowing about Christ and his Church (Catholic Church). Such a person may (not will) be saved. However, in this day and age there cannot be many people who do not know about Jesus and the Catholic Church.

By the way there is only one Christian Church and that is the Catholic Church. Jesus did not establish any others. Non-Catholic Christians belong to communities but not churches no matter what word they use.
 
thistle and StrqwberryJam
Here is the entire passage.

I do not know if my ideas are correct.

As far a I can intellectually discern, the Samaritan does inherit eternal life because he has loved his neighbor.

I will risk sounding crazy.

God sent His Son to save the entire world.

His Son is Love sent into the world.

It is love that saves us.

There have been 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000… humans in history. It might sound crazy and I know it. But God loves all people and not just us lucky Christians. Therefore to help me from being crazy or accepting false ideas, I asked the question: how has this issue been handled throughout our Christian history?

I hold the opinion, which can be changed, that humans could be saved by agape only.

We Christians are blessed to know the mystery, the mystery of love.

Luk 10:25-37
And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour? And Jesus answering said, A certain [man] went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded [him], and departed, leaving [him] half dead. And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked [on him], and passed by on the other side.
But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion [on him], And went to [him], and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave [them] to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
 
Jim_Baur said:
thistle and StrqwberryJam
Here is the entire passage.

I do not know if my ideas are correct.

As far a I can intellectually discern, the Samaritan does inherit eternal life because he has loved his neighbor.

I will risk sounding crazy.

God sent His Son to save the entire world.

His Son is Love sent into the world.

It is love that saves us.

There have been 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000… humans in history. It might sound crazy and I know it. But God loves all people and not just us lucky Christians. Therefore to help me from being crazy or accepting false ideas, I asked the question: how has this issue been handled throughout our Christian history?

I hold the opinion, which can be changed, that humans could be saved by agape only.

We Christians are blessed to know the mystery, the mystery of love.

Luk 10:25-37
And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour? And Jesus answering said, A certain [man] went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded [him], and departed, leaving [him] half dead. And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked [on him], and passed by on the other side.
But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion [on him], And went to [him], and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave [them] to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
Click to expand...
Love and good deeds during a lifetime have no merit if a person dies in a state of mortal sin. It is not enough to have faith and do good works out of love that comes from that faith.
You inherit eternal life when you die in a state of grace.

CCC 1274 The Holy Spirit has marked us with the seal of the Lord (“Dominicus character”) “for the day of redemption.” “Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life.” The faithful Christian who has “kept the seal” until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life “marked with the sign of faith,” with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.
 
thistle

I am still of the opinion that the passage teaches that one inherits eternal life by agape.

It is agape that places us in eternal life, not faith.

Honestly, I could be wrong, there is salvation outside of the Church, but not outside of Christ–Who is God’s love sent into the world.

I am here to learn not agrue.

Please know that I am not trying to argue, but learn.

All of my statements are in the conditional, the condition that I could be really, really wrong.

It is agape that saves.

The Samaritan inherited eternal life because he loved–at least that is the way that I understand it.

Again, I am really aware that I could be mistaken.

I do not understand hell, purgatory and limbo in relation to these things.

I do not understand salvation outside the Church either.

It get really complex to say the least.

Also, there have been 1,000,000,000,000,000… people on planet earth. How God deals with all of them–only He knows.

His infinite and onmipotent love was sent to save all people, another important fact to ponder.

God Bless,

Jim Baur
 
Jim_Baur said:
I am still of the opinion that the passage teaches that one inherits eternal life by agape.
Click to expand...
One “inherits” it “by agape” in 2 senses:
The first and most important sense is that the “agape” love of Christ for us is what motivated Him to Redeem us through his life, death and resurrection.
Secondly, as Maria points out, God’s law has been written onto the heart of every human. The human conscience - where the heart resides - is the place of interaction between free will and grace. God’s grace will move us to love if we allow it. Those who respond to that call to love - even if they have never heard of Christ - have still heard from Him and can still be saved.
Here is a taste of what the CCC says on the topic - Paragraph 851:
“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337” Emphasis mine.
Jim_Baur said:
It is agape that places us in eternal life, not faith…
God Bless, Jim Baur
Click to expand...
Salvation is by grace through faith. Agape is faith in action - dont try to separate the two. They are 2 sides of the same coin…
 
Jim_Baur said:
thistle

I am still of the opinion that the passage teaches that one inherits eternal life by agape.

It is agape that places us in eternal life, not faith.

Honestly, I could be wrong, there is salvation outside of the Church, but not outside of Christ–Who is God’s love sent into the world.

I am here to learn not agrue.

Please know that I am not trying to argue, but learn.

All of my statements are in the conditional, the condition that I could be really, really wrong.

It is agape that saves.

The Samaritan inherited eternal life because he loved–at least that is the way that I understand it.

Again, I am really aware that I could be mistaken.

I do not understand hell, purgatory and limbo in relation to these things.

I do not understand salvation outside the Church either.

It get really complex to say the least.

Also, there have been 1,000,000,000,000,000… people on planet earth. How God deals with all of them–only He knows.

His infinite and onmipotent love was sent to save all people, another important fact to ponder.

God Bless,

Jim Baur
Click to expand...
Is it your contention then that atheists or anyone who has rejected God and his love but do good deeds out of their human love is saved?
 
thistle said:
Is it your contention then that atheists or anyone who has rejected God and his love but do good deeds out of their human love is saved?
Click to expand...
It’s mine if we are talking about any people who had no idea who your God was, all the many many people who never knew a thing about him specifically.
That’s what I would believe if I were to believe.
I could never believe that people who had no way of knowing other than the “he wrote it on their hearts” stuff, would know very much at all if anything more than to love others. That’s all they would know without further details.
 
From thistle: "Is it your contention then that atheists or anyone who has rejected God and his love but do good deeds out of their human love is saved? "

No.

I am not sure how to respond to your excellent question.

Agape here is God’s love, not eros or philos. It is God’s love poured into the hearts of humans.

Hateful atheism and hate of love seems to exclude one from love, which is eteranl life.

Thistle, as of now, I will reflect on this some more. Also, I will read StrawberryJam’s ideas too.

Also, I do not have the time or energy to research the Catholic Church’s teaching on salvation outside the Church, but you might know. From memory, and that is dangerous, I thought that there is salvation outside the Church, but not outside of Christ.

Thistle, I need a little time for prayer and reflection.

Oh, the idea was first presented to me by C. Spicq’s Agape, Vol. 1, 1963.

Again, I am not sure, I believe every time a person asks Jesus how they inherit eternal life, He says love.
 
Hi Jim! :tiphat:

Im guessing that you may have missed my post #10 which addressed issues that you brought up in a later post to thistle…
40.png
Philthy:
Here is a taste of what the CCC says on the topic - Paragraph 851:
“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337” Emphasis mine.
Click to expand...
Dont skip over the “moved by grace” part - you’ll end up in the heresy of Pelagianism , which claims that man can achieve salvation through good deeds alone. This heresy and its offshoots were refuted and condemned by the Church in the first millennium. This is the direction Thistle is gently trying to prevent you from following with his thought provoking question. One cannot love apart from the active, gracious presence of God in their life. If we could, and love were of ourselves, we wouldnt need God in order to be saved.
As a further thought for reflection and meditation, consider that God reveals himself as…love.

1John 4:8 “Whoever does not love does not know God, because** God is love**.”

Another way of thinking of this is to say that there is no love which is not of God. The next question is, “What is faith?” Why not check out the Catechism here:

scborromeo.org/ccc/index/a.htm

Blessings!
 
Phil thy

Thanks!

I did miss your post, sorry.

I know that it is by grace–no human can have agape in the Christian sense.

Again, thanks!!!
 
The book that first gave me this idea is “Agape in the New Testament” by Ceslaus Spicq, O.P.

The explanation is in Volume One pp. 108-118.

Thanks!
 
Jim_Baur said:
The book that first gave me this idea is “Agape in the New Testament” by Ceslaus Spicq, O.P.

The explanation is in Volume One pp. 108-118.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I’ll try to find that book Jim Baur,

And I appeciate your humble expression of your beliefs in this kind of format. You made me think of little flower, and how humble she was.

Thank you for reminding me to read more about little flower. I only just glanced at her account. I think I need to really re read her now.
Your friend,
Liz
 
I live in a city with a great library system. I use their interlibrary loan departments. They can get anything.

I bought Agape, it was around $ 40.00 per volume. There are three volumes.

I want to thank you for your kind words, God bless.

Jim Baur
 
thistle

The more I ponder the Good Samaritan and paragraph 851 from the CCC, I realize that there is most certainly salvation outside of the Church. The salvation is God’s love.

I do not have the ability to even begin to explain that. I believe it.

This is for any other person who might read this: the word neighbor in Hebrew is a lot wider than I knew. (Those that have the skill could explain and correct my limited understanding–and yes it really is limited.)

The image that comes to my mind is: the pictures of the most powerful and famous leaders in the Democratic and Republican parties, and all of the famous religious leaders, all of the militant religious leaders, and our enemy nations, all of the wicked, all of the sinners, the people of Ireland and England, and all different colors of humans and nationalities. Then slap neighbor over this collage. Jesus was saying “love all people.” Agape is God’s love and God loves all of us. Therefore the Christian must be the first to love all people

The Christians have to yell to all of the above: We love you.

Also, the Christians have to tearfully embrace all other Christians–all 2000 denominations. We must say, no we will say: I love you. I need you to love me too.

We need to forgive each other.

There is no room for hate–only love.

I made up a name for it GWENNS. We will love God, Wicked, Enemies, Needy, Neighbors and self.
 
Jim_Baur said:
thistle

The more I ponder the Good Samaritan and paragraph 851 from the CCC, I realize that there is most certainly salvation outside of the Church. The salvation is God’s love.

I do not have the ability to even begin to explain that. I believe it.

This is for any other person who might read this: the word neighbor in Hebrew is a lot wider than I knew. (Those that have the skill could explain and correct my limited understanding–and yes it really is limited.)

The image that comes to my mind is: the pictures of the most powerful and famous leaders in the Democratic and Republican parties, and all of the famous religious leaders, all of the militant religious leaders, and our enemy nations, all of the wicked, all of the sinners, the people of Ireland and England, and all different colors of humans and nationalities. Then slap neighbor over this collage. Jesus was saying “love all people.” Agape is God’s love and God loves all of us. Therefore the Christian must be the first to love all people

The Christians have to yell to all of the above: We love you.

Also, the Christians have to tearfully embrace all other Christians–all 2000 denominations. We must say, no we will say: I love you. I need you to love me too.

We need to forgive each other.

There is no room for hate–only love.

I made up a name for it GWENNS. We will love God, Wicked, Enemies, Needy, Neighbors and self.
Click to expand...
Salvation is ONLY through Christ. Anyone who has rejected Christ and his Church (the Catholic Church) will not be saved even if such a person loves other people and does good deeds out of that human love.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top