Saved vs. Justified

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My idea will not solve the disagreement, but I have to mention it.

Romans clearly teaches what St. Luke 10: 25-27 tells us.

We are saved by His Love!

I have to wonder if the discussion should not be centered around this question: how could one lose one’s salvation?
 
You shouldn’t really bother with James 2 when talking with Protestants. If you want to really get through to them, you have to use Paul Alone (see the link in my signature for a good blog on how to use Paul Alone to easily outdo a Protestant on Salvation).

There is certainly a problem with terminology when talking with Protestants. The terms “saved” and “justified” can mean the same thing, depending on the context. For example, Ephesians 2:8 does not use the term “justified” but it does use the term “saved,” yet Protestants would say this verse is speaking of Justification. Similarly, Paul does speak of being justified by faith, but this refers to being saved by faith.

The main error that Protestants run into is confusing getting Saved/Justified with a different concept of attaining Eternal Life. The two are not the same. To get Saved/Justified means you’ve left your life of sin and become reconciled to God as an adopted child. But you don’t actually become worthy of Eternal Life unless you are Judged worthy of it after you live a life of Christian love and faithfulness. This is why Paul doesn’t speak of “eternal life” in places where he speaks of “justification,” but Paul does speak of “eternal life” in places where it refers to a Christian being judged by their lifestyle (e.g. Rom 2:5-8; Gal 6:7-9).
James is perfect for works. I just went to it and I see the word “alone” no where in sight.
Paul speaks of works but never in a salvation concept. Paul does not believe works save. He does believe that we are given different rewards for our work.

Romans 4:4 and on is saying you’re NOT saved by works. To the one who works his wage is DUE and not reckoned as a favor.

But to the one who does NOT work, but BELIEVES in HIM who justifies the ungodly (God saves sinners) HIS faith is reckoned as righteousness.

How do you see this as Paul saying works save??

And I never heard of a protestant who thought he was saved and/or justified and didn’t think he was headed for eternal life. How are getting saved and attaining eternal life two different concepts?

It might be a specific denomination you’re speaking of.

Fran
 
My idea will not solve the disagreement, but I have to mention it.

Romans clearly teaches what St. Luke 10: 25-27 tells us.

We are saved by His Love!

I have to wonder if the discussion should not be centered around this question: how could one lose one’s salvation?
By doing the opposite: Not believing, or having faith, in the salvific work of The Christ.
 
Currently, I am debating a Protestant on Sola Fide. When I showed him James 2, he said that, “Yes Abraham was justified through his works, but he wasn’t SAVED by works.” He is using similar logic on James 2:24. “We are not JUSTIFIED though faith alone but we are SAVED by faith alone.” Any help is much appreciated.
This is tough because there are so many semantics issues. It is likely that his concepts of “saved” and “justified” are different.

I would say that neither faith nor works save, but that we are only saved by the grace of God.

We access saving grace through faith, a particular type of faith - it is faith that works.
 
This is tough because there are so many semantics issues. It is likely that his concepts of “saved” and “justified” are different.

**I would say that neither faith nor works save, but that we are only saved by the grace of God. **

We access saving grace through faith, a particular type of faith - it is faith that works.
Yeah. Sorry, I meant Yes. The person in the O.P.'s post is definitely using incorrect words or theology.

We are certainly saved by the grace of God
But only if we have faith.

Faith, through grace, saves.

In your very next sentence you even say:

We access saving grace through faith, a particular type of faith

So you need FAITH to access that saving grace. So it could be stated that it’s FAITH that saves since without it we CANNOT access that saving grace.

English. What a language!

Fran
 
My idea will not solve the disagreement, but I have to mention it.

Romans clearly teaches what St. Luke 10: 25-27 tells us.

We are saved by His Love!

I have to wonder if the discussion should not be centered around this question: how could one lose one’s salvation?
By rejecting, opposing, turning away from love.
 
You shouldn’t really bother with James 2 when talking with Protestants. If you want to really get through to them, you have to use Paul Alone (see the link in my signature for a good blog on how to use Paul Alone to easily outdo a Protestant on Salvation).

There is certainly a problem with terminology when talking with Protestants. The terms “saved” and “justified” can mean the same thing, depending on the context. For example, Ephesians 2:8 does not use the term “justified” but it does use the term “saved,” yet Protestants would say this verse is speaking of Justification. Similarly, Paul does speak of being justified by faith, but this refers to being saved by faith.

The main error that Protestants run into is confusing getting Saved/Justified with a different concept of attaining Eternal Life. The two are not the same. To get Saved/Justified means you’ve left your life of sin and become reconciled to God as an adopted child. But you don’t actually become worthy of Eternal Life unless you are Judged worthy of it after you live a life of Christian love and faithfulness. This is why Paul doesn’t speak of “eternal life” in places where he speaks of “justification,” but Paul does speak of “eternal life” in places where it refers to a Christian being judged by their lifestyle (e.g. Rom 2:5-8; Gal 6:7-9).
Yes, once a person is just, they have to be saved-or else God would be unjust. But from there a person is expected to maintain, and possibly even increase, their justice, with the help of grace.
 
This is tough because there are so many semantics issues. It is likely that his concepts of “saved” and “justified” are different.

I would say that neither faith nor works save, but that we are only saved by the grace of God.

We access saving grace through faith, a particular type of faith - it is faith that works.
👍

Jon
 
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