Saving first kiss question

[maryjk]

The boyfriend is practically ridiculing her desire to stay almost perfectly pure till marriage. He has told her he would feel cheated an unimpressed if they waited until the wedding ceremony to kiss. Whiling kissing before marriage is not inherently sinful, it is neither inherently necessary.

Actually, it sounds like the boyfriend is confused as to why she will do “other stuff,” but won’t kiss.

It reminds me, to the extreme, I am not saying she is doing this, of the movie Pretty Woman. Julia Roberts is a hooker. (Again, I am not saying that the OP is a hooker, having sex or any such thing.) She will do anything, BUT kiss on the lips. Her john, looks at her, like she is nuts. She will do all of this, but not kiss me? What? “Too personal.”

So, if the OP is going further than kissing. Heavy petting maybe? Napping together? Sitting on his lap? Not kissing seems kind of silly.

Generally when someone doesn’t kiss they draw a very firm line about all types of sexual/relationship contact.

 

[runningdude]

Actually, it sounds like the boyfriend is confused as to why she will do “other stuff,” but won’t kiss. …

So, if the OP is going further than kissing. Heavy petting maybe? Napping together? Sitting on his lap? Not kissing seems kind of silly. …

I think you are reading too much into “other stuff”.

I originally said the boyfriend’s motives were “impure”. Perhaps “less pure”? The OP seems to have set a high standard by not kissing him. It is simply not necessary for a healthy dating relationship to involve kissing.

 

[maryjk]

I think you are reading too much into “other stuff”.

I originally said the boyfriend’s motives were “impure”. Perhaps “less pure”? The OP seems to have set a high standard by not kissing him. It is simply not necessary for a healthy dating relationship to involve kissing.

Maybe the OP could return and explain what she meant by this:

We have done other forms of physical affection that one could argue a couple might do after their first kiss.

Because of this I wonder if the boyfriend’s motives are “less pure.” As I said, he could simply be confused.

For me it is it like young women that won’t wear jeans. Some claim they are “too revealing.” Yet, these same women will wear tank tops and shorts.

Jeans, tank tops and shorts aren’t impure but one would generally agree to wear jeans before the others. When they don’t, it might not make sense to others.

 

[Lorelei12]

Because of this I wonder if the boyfriend’s motives are “less pure.” As I said, he could simply be confused.

For me it is it like young women that won’t wear jeans. Some claim they are “too revealing.” Yet, these same women will wear tank tops and shorts.

Jeans, tank tops and shorts aren’t impure but one would generally agree to wear jeans before the others. When they don’t, it might not make sense to others.

Yes, exactly.

If the OP views kissing as too intimate and special to do before being married, that would mean that most other forms of affection would be off-limits too. If she’s okay with the “other stuff” she’s not being consistent. Plus, her boyfriend is clearly a bit puzzled by it too, so it doesn’t really sound like the “other stuff” is holding hands.

 

[JamesBond007]

Your boyfriend is right and there is no reason not to kiss him. However if you don’t want to kiss him then don’t it is your body not his. Still men need to have physical contact and affection because that is their nature in a sense

I’m a guy and I could quite frankly due without the physical contact if avoiding it put a big smile on my lady’s face. Men have a need to know they are satisfying the woman they care about (within reason of coarse). Period.

 

[thewanderer]

Its not the desire to kiss, **its the manipulative means he is expressing this. ** The OP won’t enjoy it specifically because of this manipulative attitude.

If you want to claim he is definitvely being manipulative, please quote from the OP to show this as true, because many of us do not see that as necessarily being the case. And, seeing as it is our duty as Catholics to interpret others actions/motives in the best light and to avoid all acts of rash judgement you should not claim that the boyfriend is being manipulative unless that is the only way to interpret the scenario as explained by the OP.

The appropriate section of the catechism is this:

2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury.277 He becomes guilty:

• of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
• of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;278
• of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.

2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:

Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. and if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.279

from: vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P8K.HTM

So many children image their first time having sex will be with their spouses; then in their teenage or college years, they “grow up” and realize this is silly and just do “it” because it’s not a big deal.

Jesus warns us to maintain our child like faith in God! The OP has an opportunity to explore her motives in greater detail.

In his First Letter to the Corinthians, Saint Paul tells us she would sin in neither case, but that it is better to refrain from marriage altogether, let alone kiss. It is a time honored tradition of the church.

See, the thing about that passage is that while its true that it is better objectively to remain celibate, it is not better for an individual with a vocation to marriage. And if you are discerning a vocation to marriage with a particular person it is appropriate and good to engage in physical signs of affection that are appropriate for the commitment level of your relationship. Sure, its better objectively to be celibate, but its not better for me personally to be celibate, nor is it better for those discerning marriage with a specific person to arbitrarily and unilaterally decide which forms of affection are allowed based on the idea that it will make their relationship “unique” and “different”. Thats just not how things work. Just because something is objectively better does not mean it is best for a particular situation.

The OP should not simply throw her first kiss away. Having such high standards will help her find a strong man who has a strong faith in God.

I’m sorry, but this is just plain false. My husband is one of the best and most godly men I know and yet he agreed with me that there isn’t a really good reason to wait until marriage for your first kiss. What you are saying here is that my husband is actually not a strong man with strong faith in God because he disagrees with your preconceived idea that it is better and somehow more holy to wait until you are married to kiss.

Also… no-one is talking about throwing your first kiss away, we’re talking about kissing being a good thing in relationships with an appropriate level of commitment. We’re not talking about someone going out and kissing just anyone they pick up off the street.

 

[thewanderer]

I’m a guy and I could quite frankly due without the physical contact if avoiding it put a big smile on my lady’s face. Men have a need to know they are satisfying the woman they care about (within reason of coarse). Period.

Of course, as do women, that doesn’t mean we have to agree that what they want is a good thing, and, if we happen to think its silly and inconsistent with our SO’s other behavior, (as the OP’s bf does) it is pretty understandable to talk about it with your SO to try and explain to them why you think their being silly and inconsistent, and, if that kind of silliness and inconsistency bothers you, you might even press the issue harder, to see if your SO will recognize the inconsistency etc and get over their inconsistent behavior. The OP’s boyfriends reaction could be unreasonable, but it also could be completely understandable. We can’t know without more information from the OP about this particular situation.

 

[runningdude]

If you want to claim he is definitvely being manipulative, please quote from the OP to show this as true, because many of us do not see that as necessarily being the case. …

I have backed off of this position. I answered a hostile wall of text regarding my phrase “motives are impure” with a wall of text of my own. It was perhaps not the best way to answer…

The OP should not feel pressured into kissing her boyfriend. I also wanted to stress the inherent beauty of her simple desire for her first kiss to be on her wedding night.

 

[maryjk]

I have backed off of this position. I answered a hostile wall of text regarding my phrase “motives are impure” with a wall of text of my own. It was perhaps not the best way to answer…

The OP should not feel pressured into kissing her boyfriend. I also wanted to stress the inherent beauty of her simple desire for her first kiss to be on her wedding night.

I might agree if she hadn’t said, herself, that she was doing other stuff.

Again I quote her first post.

We have done other forms of physical affection that one could argue a couple might do after their first kiss.

 

[thewanderer]

I have backed off of this position. I answered a hostile wall of text regarding my phrase “motives are impure” with a wall of text of my own. It was perhaps not the best way to answer…

The OP should not feel pressured into kissing her boyfriend. I also wanted to stress the inherent beauty of her simple desire for her first kiss to be on her wedding night.

Sorry about that, I must have missed that part. I admit that I have been reacting a little harshly as well, mostly because I can totally see myself in the bf’s position and reacting the way he is without being crazy, controlling, unloving, un-spiritual, or impure, so the way so many people jumped on the bf as though he were clearly all of those things really got to me.

But yes, as I’ve said earlier, the OP absolutely should not kiss her bf because she feels pressured, that is a terrible reason, the only good reason is as an expression of your love and affection for the other person, not because you think the other person wants it even if you’re not ready. It has to come freely from both people involved.

 

[runningdude]

…
Again I quote her first post.

But the examples of affection she gave are so innocent, such as kissing on the cheek on the cheek or forehead. It’s possible they are dipping into racier “other stuff”, but that is simply not the impression I got at all!

 

[maryjk]

But the examples of affection she gave are so innocent, such as kissing on the cheek on the cheek or forehead. It’s possible they are dipping into racier “other stuff”, but that is simply not the impression I got at all!

Let’s quote her entire paragraph. That way neither of us are taking it out of context.

The young man I am dating now, is a very good Catholic and we have been together for ten months. We haven’t kissed (on the lips) yet, but we’ve done kisses on the cheek, forehead, etc. He doesn’t like this “rule” of mine one bit, because he doesn’t think I have a valid reason to be doing it. We have done other forms of physical affection that one could argue a couple might do after their first kiss. He says that if we end up getting married, he’s not going to be super thrilled that I’ve “saved my first kiss for him.” He says he’s not going to kiss me and think, “oh my goodness, I’m so glad we waiting all these years.”

From that, I took that they have done other forms, in addition to the kisses on the cheek/forehead.

For me, the addition stuff is separate from the kisses on the cheek/forehead.

Also, if you think about it, a kiss on the cheek would come before a kiss on the lips. A kiss on the cheek is something that people that barely know each other would do. It isn’t something saved for boyfriend/girlfriend.

So if they are doing things that would come *after * a kiss on the lips, a kiss on the cheek wouldn’t be what she is talking about.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Let’s quote her entire paragraph. That way neither of us are taking it out of context.

From that, I took that they have done other forms, in addition to the kisses on the cheek/forehead.

For me, the addition stuff is separate from the kisses on the cheek/forehead.

Also, if you think about it, a kiss on the cheek would come before a kiss on the lips. A kiss on the cheek is something that people that barely know each other would do. It isn’t something saved for boyfriend/girlfriend.

So if they are doing things that would come *after * a kiss on the lips, a kiss on the cheek wouldn’t be what she is talking about.

I mentioned this earlier in the conversation, but…

My wife and I didn’t kiss on the lips until the altar. We did, however, kiss on the neck (which is more intimate than the lips IMHO), lie down next to each other in clothes, cuddle, and rest on each other’s chests (and maybe laps, I don’t remember). All of this could, I think, qualify as chaste, and none of it led to any removal of clothes or sexual intimacy.

But I do think that it was stuff that couples usually do *after *their first kiss.

 

[thewanderer]

I mentioned this earlier in the conversation, but…

My wife and I didn’t kiss on the lips until the altar. We did, however, kiss on the neck (which is more intimate than the lips IMHO), lie down next to each other in clothes, cuddle, and rest on each other’s chests (and maybe laps, I don’t remember). All of this could, I think, qualify as chaste, and none of it led to any removal of clothes or sexual intimacy.

But I do think that it was stuff that couples usually do *after *their first kiss.

Yes, I also really did not get the impression that they were doing anything beyond this kind of thing, though this can still be confusing, as many of those things really are more intimate than a peck on the lips.

 

[Lorelei12]

Yes, I also really did not get the impression that they were doing anything beyond this kind of thing, though this can still be confusing, as many of those things really are more intimate than a peck on the lips.

That’s what confuses me- if kissing is so intimate that someone wants to wait until their wedding day to do it, then why would they be okay with doing things they viewed as more intimate than that, whatever those things are? It sounds perfectly legitimate for the boyfriend to be confused.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

It sounds perfectly legitimate for the boyfriend to be confused.

And the OP agrees. That doesn’t mean that waiting to kiss until the altar is wrong.

 

[AllSeasons]

Hello all,

I would like your thoughts on a topic that my boyfriend and I have been discussing. When I was in the 6th grade, I wrote a letter to my future husband that I would save my first kiss for him (I still have the letter). And as I’ve grown up (I’m now a senior in college), I have kept this mentality that I would save my first kiss for my wedding day. I didn’t date all through high school and only started dating my sophomore year of college- so I wasn’t really “challeneged” in this area because I was never presented with the opportunity to kiss someone.

The young man I am dating now, is a very good Catholic and we have been together for ten months. We haven’t kissed (on the lips) yet, but we’ve done kisses on the cheek, forehead, etc. He doesn’t like this “rule” of mine one bit, because he doesn’t think I have a valid reason to be doing it. We have done other forms of physical affection that one could argue a couple might do after their first kiss. He says that if we end up getting married, he’s not going to be super thrilled that I’ve “saved my first kiss for him.” He says he’s not going to kiss me and think, “oh my goodness, I’m so glad we waiting all these years.”

We’ve talked quite a bit about this topic,and he’s convinced that I’m just holding out so I won’t give up on this little challenge I’ve given myself. He’s partly right… That’s kind of what it’s turned into. But the other part of it is that saving my first kiss for my husband is just something that I’d like to do. I think it’s cute, sweet, different, unique. For me it’s not that hard (because I don’t know what I’m missing I guess…), but I know he wants to kiss very badly.

I don’t see anything wrong with kissing. And I definitely see where he’s coming from with his argument that we already are ok with doing things that a couple usually does after their first kiss, so it doesn’t make sense that we don’t kiss.

I’m rather confused, and I don’t really know what to do. I don’t want to kiss him just because he’s asking me to. If I decide that I want to start kissing, I want it to be because I want to. What do y’all think?

I’m courting a girl who’s also saving her first kiss for the man she is to marry. Instead of writing a letter to her future husband, she made a promise to Mary. I’ve kissed her on the cheek, and we’ve held hands and hugged, but I fully respect her decision on lip kissing. Of course, I hope I will be able to kiss her someday, but it’s also an opportunity to focus on the discernment process. It’s a precious gift that she’s saving for her future husband, and I want to make sure that if/when I do kiss her, I’m 100% sure that I want to marry her; otherwise, I’d just be a huge jerk.

It also has the benefit of helping to keep the relationship chaste. So far, I’m happy with the other physical expressions of affection, and really, it gives us a chance to really get to know each other, develop close emotional intimacy, and center our relationship on God. Besides, the idea that I would be the first and only person to kiss her is kind of cool.

So I guess what I’m trying to say is that you should stay true to your own convictions, and if your guy really loves you and sees a future with you, he will respect you enough to wait for when you’re ready for that level of intimacy.

Anyway, just the $0.02 from a guy on the other end of the same thing.

 

[Brendan_64]

I’m rather confused, and I don’t really know what to do. I don’t want to kiss him just because he’s asking me to. If I decide that I want to start kissing, I want it to be because I want to. What do y’all think?

This seems a rather arbitrary position. You don’t have any moral objections to kissing outside of marriage, yet you are ‘saving’ your first kiss for your wedding day? Abstaining from sex is different, and we do this not because we are ‘saving’ this to give to our true love on our wedding day, but because sex outside marriage is morally wrong (unlike kissing outside of marriage). To me you are basing this not on moral grounds, but on a rather romantic notion.

Men are generally not very romantic, so the fact that you have saved your first kiss for your wedding day is unlikely to thrill your husband, although it will most likely have been the cause of much frustration to him while he was your fiance.

 

[AllSeasons]

This seems a rather arbitrary position. You don’t have any moral objections to kissing outside of marriage, yet you are ‘saving’ your first kiss for your wedding day? Abstaining from sex is different, and we do this not because we are ‘saving’ this to give to our true love on our wedding day, but because sex outside marriage is morally wrong (unlike kissing outside of marriage). To me you are basing this not on moral grounds, but on a rather romantic notion.

Men are generally not very romantic, so the fact that you have saved your first kiss for your wedding day is unlikely to thrill your husband, although it will most likely have been the cause of much frustration to him while he was your fiance.

I disagree with your position. She’s not saying that she wants everyone to do it, but it is HER choice, and she has the right to do that, no matter what you or anyone else says.

I also disagree with your position that “men are generally not very romantic.” That’s just a huge overgeneralized statement that’s not even right in its current generalized form. Kissing is not the only way to be romantic; and anyone who thinks that has the wrong definition of being romantic. It’s not a question of being “thrilled,” but rather a matter of respect, which is so important in a relationship and marriage.

 

[Brendan_64]

I disagree with your position. She’s not saying that she wants everyone to do it, but it is HER choice, and she has the right to do that, no matter what you or anyone else says.

Yes it is her choice, but it has nothing to do with morality. So what connection has this to Catholic living or Christian morality? None.

There is a false notion held that abstaining from sex before marriage is all about ‘saving yourself’ for that special person and then giving it to them as some sort of ‘special gift’ of oneself. That may all sound very nice, but that is not why we should abstain from sex outside marriage. We should abstain from sex outside marriage because it is sinful, not because it would mean that we cannot offer our virginity as a ‘gift’ to our spouse. Kissing outside of marriage is not sinful, so there is no moral reason to abstain from it.