Saving money a sin?!

[LethalMouse]

i guess I was just wondering whats the difference between a prudent savings and hoarding. My husband and I did the retirement calculator and it says we would need 2 million saved to retire. That seems like a LOT of money. We do tithe and send our kids to Catholic schools but I still feel like thats not enough.

Not really… 2 million goes real fast especially with medical and such. Unless you have a serious pension where you basically make a normal working salary for life and awesome medical benefits, 2 million is not a lot. Especially accounting for inflation tendencies… If you asked my Grandfather at my age what a good retirement amount is he probably would have said 100K… If he were alive now he’d long since have had to go back to work.

[/On the same topic I read a book by Fr. Dubay called “Happy are you poor” that seems to say that the old 10 percent tithe was abrogated and a Christian must “share to equality”. I do admit that caused me some anxiety because this was the first time I had heard this saying and what does this mean exactly. To me it seems to imply equality means tithing to 50 percent?! This whole time I had thought I was doing enough…

If you noticed my earlier post… it is about how we can do what. There is a point at which say Bill Gates could obviously fund like a couple hundred families to live a better quality of life than me.

But there is much discernment, I know for example Gates gives a lot to charity and is on some projects for the greater good, last I heard he was funding an energy project that could help millions of people save money and help curtail nuclear waste…

If he just straight funded a bunch of families they would probably succumb to sloth and their children more often than not be not-so-great because we know how psychology works…

So although an endeavor may fail our intention is a key. If Gates can create a power plant that eventually saves millions of people much energy costs and reduces hazards etc… is this not better than having gave away all his money at once??

who would fix the bigger problems?
[/quote]

 

[Strydersroom]

to paraphrase a great quote:

the things you do/buy for yourself are gone and forgotten when you die, BUT
the things you do and give to others will live on forever.

Life is short and you can’t take it with you, so spend, be generous, be kind and do not expect anything in return.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

I assume your local Bishop has not said for you to “tithe” 10%…

The Church does** NOT** require a tithe.

We are to give according to our means.

I would not recommend that book your mention to here in this question. Just set aside what that author said or did not say.

We are not required to give any particular percent…let alone 50%!

Use reason, prudence and other virtues to judge how much to give at this time to the Church and the poor…

Discuss your particular circumstances with a confessor or pastor…

Most parish churches would be thrilled if they could get everyone on board with 1-2%

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Read the Bible.

Especially the parts dealing with wisdom.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

I went to Google just now.

Typed in " bible money management ".

All KINDS of things came up.

Here is one:

daveramsey.com/church/scriptures/ictid/church1/

 

[mikekle]

I went to Google just now.

Typed in " bible money management ".

All KINDS of things came up.

Here is one:

daveramsey.com/church/scriptures/ictid/church1/

I think those are mostly scams, I watched a tv evangelist Peter Popoff recently, he was actually trying to have people believe God wants them to be wealthy and happy in this world and if they trust in him enough and plant enough ‘seeds’ God will reward them with mysterious money, just showing up in their acct or on their doorstep. LOL I found all the testimonials to be comical…folks claiming after they gave Popoffs ministry a check, they suddenly were given a new car, or an extra $100K in their bank acct overnight, etc!!

I cant believe people actually fall for this, especially since if they read the bible, they would recognize that kind of stuff is not important to God at all.

 

[Bonnie]

I think those are mostly scams,

Dave Ramsey isn’t a scammer. He doesn’t ask for money, he doesn’t “invest” your money like bad preachers, such as Popoff - do. If you read the Dave Ramsey website, you’ll quickly see the difference.

Clark Howard - who is also on the radio & Internet - gives very similar advice as Dave Ramsey does. You’ll find me on the Clark Howard forum - I’ve gotten some excellent financial advice from others there.

 

[Lov3sJesus]

Saving money isn’t a sin, but saving/hoarding money for future pleasure, or leisure time is. If your saving for a car, or a home or for a legitiment needed expense like education for your children, then it’s okay…
But read what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says: we are to give even out of our need. There is no retirement for Catholics, we should trust the Father to provide for us adequately, just like the poor do. When you do this you will experience the blessedness (happiness) of the poor. Jesus even said blessed are those who are poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Reflect what this scripture means! Evangelical poverty is for all faithful Christians, not just a select few. Eye has not seen, ear has not heard what joys God has in store for those who love Him, even here on this earth…

Section 2544-2547 CCC.
Also consult Happy Are You Poor, By Thomas Dubay

 

[Bonnie]

There is no retirement for Catholics

In your opinion. Some people want to work until they drop, but most don’t, and many are not able to. So saving for one’s retirement is a must. Pensions, IRAs, etc. are good things. Social security is inadequate - I could go into detail from our experience, but I’ll refrain.

 

[TravisandJill]

Saving money isn’t a sin, but saving/hoarding money for future pleasure, or leisure time is. If your saving for a car, or a home or for a legitiment needed expense like education for your children, then it’s okay…

Can you provide references from Church documents/teaching about this statement. especially differentiating from saving for retirement versus saving for a home etc…

 

[Lov3sJesus]

Can you provide references from Church documents/teaching about this statement. especially differentiating from saving for retirement versus saving for a home etc…

There isn’t really any church teaching on retirement because, in the bible there are numerous references to amassing wealth. It’s easier for a camel to get through an eye of a needle than for the wealthy to enter heaven (Matt 19:24)

Blessed are those who are poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 5:3) remember Matthew was a tax collector and he writes this.

Dearly beloved, I beseech you as stangers and pilgrims, to refrain yourselves from carnal desires which wage war against the soul (1 Peter 2:11)
After you’ve read this… Read Luke 12:22-34 very closely.

 

[TravisandJill]

There isn’t really any church teaching on retirement because, in the bible there are numerous references to amassing wealth. It’s easier for a camel to get through an eye of a needle than for the wealthy to enter heaven (Matt 19:24)

Blessed are those who are poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 5:3) remember Matthew was a tax collector and he writes this.

Dearly beloved, I beseech you as stangers and pilgrims, to refrain yourselves from carnal desires which wage war against the soul (1 Peter 2:11)
After you’ve read this… Read Luke 12:22-34 very closely.

So it would be better for me not to save and become a burden on my children? With my husbands family history of Alzheimer’s it’s almost a guarantee he will have to go to a care facility when he is old. Should my kids pay for that too?

I have just read for an hour Germain Grisez Moral Theology and he says nothing of what you are stating. In fact, he states that a person is allowed to save for probable future events for oneself and descendants.

 

[Bonnie]

So it would be better for me not to save and become a burden on my children? With my husbands family history of Alzheimer’s it’s almost a guarantee he will have to go to a care facility when he is old. Should my kids pay for that too?

I have just read for an hour Germain Grisez Moral Theology and he says nothing of what you are stating. In fact, he states that a person is allowed to save for probable future events for oneself and descendants.

Common sense again!

Even religious orders save & invest money for their aging members. Take a look at your diocese & parish financial statements - you’ll see that they invest money for future events.

 

[Lov3sJesus]

So it would be better for me not to save and become a burden on my children? With my husbands family history of Alzheimer’s it’s almost a guarantee he will have to go to a care facility when he is old. Should my kids pay for that too?

I have just read for an hour Germain Grisez Moral Theology and he says nothing of what you are stating. In fact, he states that a person is allowed to save for probable future events for oneself and descendants.

Did you read Luke 12:22-34 in your bible? Can Jesus be any more clear? We are to trust the Father to provide, live frugally and give to the poor, then you will have treasure in this life (spiritual blessings) and in heaven.
If you want to go into depth on this subject I strongly suggest you read: “Happy Are You Poor” by Thomas Dubay. He doesn’t water down the gospel.

Pax

 

[Bonnie]

Did you read Luke 12:22-34 in your bible? Can Jesus be any more clear? We are to trust the Father to provide, live frugally and give to the poor, then you will have treasure in this life (spiritual blessings) and in heaven.
If you want to go into depth on this subject I strongly suggest you read: “Happy Are You Poor” by Thomas Dubay. He doesn’t water down the gospel.

Pax

If you are single - fine. If not - is your wife on board with this? If she is - fine, again. But if not, take care of her & any children. Read 1 Timothy 5:8.

 

[Lov3sJesus]

Bonnie, the gospel is meant for married, religious, and single alike. Like I said read Thomas Dubays book, it’s very liberating. We aren’t talking about destitution or neglecting others, but for living the kingdom.

 

[TravisandJill]

Can you show me in any moral theology manual where this is?
Also I HAVE read that book (I said that at the beginning of my posting) and it’s not clear to me which is why I asked the question. So according to Fr. Dubay what would be an example of what a married person should do? That was my question

 

[1ke]

Can you show me in any moral theology manual where this is?
Also I HAVE read that book (I said that at the beginning of my posting) and it’s not clear to me which is why I asked the question. So according to Fr. Dubay what would be an example of what a married person should do? That was my question

PLEASE talk to your pastor and not random people on the internet. This person does NOT speak with the authority of the Church. Yet you fixate on what one person has said, and ignore what all the others have said. You need guidance and counsel from your priest as to how you might live out the beatitudes in your state in life.

It is NOT a teaching of the Church that saving is sinful.

Excessive attachment to wealth, yes. Saving for retirement and emergencies, no.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

I think those are mostly scams, I watched a tv evangelist Peter Popoff recently, he was actually trying to have people believe God wants them to be wealthy and happy in this world and if they trust in him enough and plant enough ‘seeds’ God will reward them with mysterious money, just showing up in their acct or on their doorstep. LOL I found all the testimonials to be comical…folks claiming after they gave Popoffs ministry a check, they suddenly were given a new car, or an extra $100K in their bank acct overnight, etc!!

I cant believe people actually fall for this, especially since if they read the bible, they would recognize that kind of stuff is not important to God at all.

Listen to this.

It’s only a few minutes:

youtube.com/watch?v=GrWaBfUii6c

Ya don’t send anything.

Just listen.

 

[Lov3sJesus]

Jill/Travis,

Ask yourself what Saint Francis would do? Do you think he’d save for retirement? We are to imitate the saints. Did St. JP II retire? How about Mother Teresa?