SAW - the movie, my thoughts, Purgatory, spoilers

[MarkA16]

I know it came out in 2004, but I just finished watching it a couple of minutes ago because I thought it had a good moral to it.

I post here because I need some help with other Christians to put the moral together and how it fitted in the movie. To people who have seen this, this may make more sense than others who haven’t. I didn’t really organize this. I just typed down whatever I had out of the top of my head. This is what I thought:

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The bathroom in the beginning reminded me of Purgatory, along with other situations of the other victims. Why Purgatory? because the two guys were supposedly accused of doing something wrong, that’s why they ended up there. Now that they are there, they must prove to Jigsaw that they wanted to live a better life and get rid of their wrongdoings.

The men had to choose whether to live or die. They had to choose once they ended up in the bathroom because their life is “over” (metaphorically speaking). Now that their life is over, they end up in the bathroom (Purgatory) and now Jigsaw wants them to prove they are worthy of to continue living (eternal life) or to die in the bathroom (burn in all eternity).

The woman who survived. She was put there because of her drug addiction. She was asked if she was grateful for this to happen. She said that Jigsaw helped her. Though she had to kill her loved one. I guess the moral here is that sometimes we have to sacrifice things.

Anyways. In a sense Jigsaw (or John) isn’t really a bad guy when looked at a different way. All John wanted was all the bad things to end, and have people appreciate their life and not abuse it. He shows that there are consequences.

Sorry if this is wrong, but I remember thinking that John was acting like God. Throughout the whole movie I was looking at John that way. This may seem wrong, since John was also seen as a bad guy, making others kill themselves. But in reality it’s the people that chose to be there in the first place by doing what they did.

 

[deb1]

I
Anyways. In a sense Jigsaw (or John) isn’t really a bad guy when looked at a different way. All John wanted was all the bad things to end, and have people appreciate their life and not abuse it. He shows that there are consequences.

Sorry if this is wrong, but I remember thinking that John was acting like God. Throughout the whole movie I was looking at John that way. This may seem wrong, since John was also seen as a bad guy, making others kill themselves. But in reality it’s the people that chose to be there in the first place by doing what they did.

One of the things that I dislike about the Saw movies is that they blur the lines between good and evil. Jigsaw, by any stretch of the word, is evil. And yet the movies try to present him as a noble person who uses pain and torture to teach others.

No the people did not choose to be in the places that Jigsaw puts them. This is one aspect that really frustrates me when discussing this movie with others… Jigsaw is very guilty of the death and torture of all his victims.

The directors never point out the killers twisted thinking but present it as fact. Jigsaw judges whether others desever punishment or not and he has no mercy at all. This is not God like but the thinking of a psychopath. In this regard I have to give the makers of the Saw movies credit. Jigsaw is evil.

Jigsaw is very guilty of all the people’s death that he causes. He creates the machines and gadgets, he sets the people up, he captures them, he stalks them to discover their weakness and he ignores his own faults.

I have to admit, I had to skim your post. I haven’t seen the last Saw movie yet and you didn’t announce that you had spoilers

 

[deb1]

A good horror movie on purgatory is Silent Hill. That had some interesting symbolism.

Horror movies would make an interesting witnessing vehicle and I don’t know why more Christian directors don’t use them for this.

You rarely have blurring of evil(Saw being an exception) in horror movies. The bad guy is bad and totally evil.

The good person, usually not the strongest, initial member of the party defeats the bad guy.

There is a definite interplay of good/ evil, innocence/darkness in many horror movies.

 

[MarkA16]

I was only talking about the first SAW movie. The title says “spoilers” because I thought it would contain it.

Anyway, isn’t that how people accuse God of being? Those who don’t know God think of Him as the cause of all problems. Without Jigsaw that woman would never have overcome her drug addiction.

Yeah Jigsaw did choose people who don’t deserve it, like the woman’s lover who died because the key was in his stomach. But, excuse my ignorance, doesn’t God do that too?

For some it just happen to be your time to go, for others they were given this vision on how devastating hell will be if they don’t change their lives. Jigsaw gave them that vision of hell, he gave the victims the chance to live again if only they wanted to. It’s the person’s choice. They choose whether to live, or die. If they don’t change their ways, if they don’t “repent” I guess, then they will be sent to hell, death, torture, whatever. If they “repent” or be sorry about their wrongdoing then they would be given another life.

 

[MarkA16]

Horror movies would make an interesting witnessing vehicle and I don’t know why more Christian directors don’t use them for this.

I don’t know if the director of SAW had the same morals I thought. I saw a trailer though, of SAW 3 (I think it’s 3) and it contained a Bible verse of Ezekiel which got me thinking about the whole moral thing on God and stuff.

The trailer showed Ezekiel 21:33-37. I tried looking it up on online Bibles but it stops at verse 32.

edit: ok so I went looking up Ezekiel 21:33-37 on google and I came across a forum discussing it. A poster found the verses in the Torah.

mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1221.htm

 

[MarkA16]

Must I add. In the book of Ezekiel it says “for I the Lord have spoken”. In the trailer it only says “for I have spoken”. Maybe the director DID intend for Jigsaw to play as God in a way.

That or he just didn’t want to offend other religions.

 

[deb1]

I was only talking about the first SAW movie. The title says “spoilers” because I thought it would contain it.

Darn, my bad. I promised to watch the last one with my neighbor so my mind is on that one.

Anyway, isn’t that how people accuse God of being? Those who don’t know God think of Him as the cause of all problems. Without Jigsaw that woman would never have overcome her drug addiction.

If you think what an actual person like Jigsaw would be like in real life(and there are people with his level of evilness) then it is easy to see him as very, very evil. He is nothing like God. God sees our hearts and knows what steps we took to lead us to our sins. Although he expects us to not sin, he takes into account that a drug addicted woman, for example, might be trying to ward off the pain of childhood sexual abuse with her addictions.

Jigsaw never has the mercy on these people that God has.

Yeah Jigsaw did choose people who don’t deserve it, like the woman’s lover who died because the key was in his stomach. But, excuse my ignorance, doesn’t God do that too?

You’ll have to give me an example. God does not cause bad to happen to us. We have the result of original sin on us and we have to come against the rest of humanity’s bad choices.

By the way, I didn’t know that the man was her lover.

For some it just happen to be your time to go, for others they were given this vision on how devastating hell will be if they don’t change their lives. Jigsaw gave them that vision of hell, he gave the victims the chance to live again if only they wanted to. It’s the person’s choice. They choose whether to live, or die. If they don’t change their ways, if they don’t “repent” I guess, then they will be sent to hell, death, torture, whatever. If they “repent” or be sorry about their wrongdoing then they would be given another life.

But Jigsaw is not God and he is not acting like God. The people in the movie are no more sinful then you or I or Jigsaw himself.

Jigsaw is one of a long line of interesting movie serial killers. God does not torture us to force us to make the decisions that he wants us to make. That is on us.

ANd those of us who make it to purgatory will be going through a cleansing process to prepare us for heaven. We aren’t, while in purgatory, choosing between heaven and hell. We will already be bound for heaven.

 

[deb1]

I don’t know if the director of SAW had the same morals I thought. I saw a trailer though, of SAW 3 (I think it’s 3) and it contained a Bible verse of Ezekiel which got me thinking about the whole moral thing on God and stuff.

The trailer showed Ezekiel 21:33-37. I tried looking it up on online Bibles but it stops at verse 32.

edit: ok so I went looking up Ezekiel 21:33-37 on google and I came across a forum discussing it. A poster found the verses in the Torah.

mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1221.htm

I don’t know what their beliefs are. I think that your ideas were interesting, even if I don’t agree with them. For some reason the Saw movies have caused me and my friend to have some interesting discussions.

The dr. does act nobly in Saw One but then again,(spoiler ahead, cover your eyes) he does die.

 

[deb1]

I don’t know why but I liked the second Saw much better then the first one.

 

[MarkA16]

I don’t know what their beliefs are. I think that your ideas were interesting, even if I don’t agree with them. For some reason the Saw movies have caused me and my friend to have some interesting discussions.

The dr. does act nobly in Saw One but then again,(spoiler ahead, cover your eyes) he does die.

Yeah I too thought I had interesting ideas, that’s why I wanted to share them here. Even though I knew they wouldn’t hold up lol.

Still the Saw 3 trailer where it says “for I have spoken” instead of it having “I the LORD”, is very interesting.

Aside from the whole moral thing, the movie was puzzling, nor confusing. In the end where I found out Jigsaw was the man lying on the floor, “Whoa! That’s cool!”. It made it seem like there would be a sequel (I know there are). But I read 2004 reviews and people said that the ending sucked. I don’t think they know that it was leading to a sequel. Personally I thought the ending was the best part of the movie.

 

[deb1]

Yeah I too thought I had interesting ideas, that’s why I wanted to share them here. Even though I knew they wouldn’t hold up lol.

Still the Saw 3 trailer where it says “for I have spoken” instead of it having “I the LORD”, is very interesting.

Aside from the whole moral thing, the movie was puzzling, nor confusing. In the end where I found out Jigsaw was the man lying on the floor, “Whoa! That’s cool!”. It made it seem like there would be a sequel (I know there are). But I read 2004 reviews and people said that the ending sucked. I don’t think they know that it was leading to a sequel. Personally I thought the ending was the best part of the movie.

Poor me. My hubby ruined the ending for me before I saw the movie. So, I didn’t get the effect of seeing Jigsaw get up.

 

[krokal]

The “SAW” films are a sick and masochistic film, and they probably shouldn’t be viewed by Christians. There are absolutely no redeeming qualities from that film, it is but a reflection on the violent perverseness of our society (i.e. finding the innocent torture and murder of human beings as somehow entertaining).

The majority of films containing violence attempt to justify it with classical or modern standards of acceptance; Saw I, II, and III, make no such attempt.

Lions Gate Entertainment about teaching moral lessons, their drive is fueled by profits. They know that they can make money off movies like this because people find unfettered violence entertaining.

And in addition to producing both Hostel I and II, they’re also making a SAW IV.

 

[MarkA16]

and SAW V. Some people like the scare.

 

[mlchance]

and SAW V. Some people like the scare.

But Saw and its sequels are not scary. They’re gross-out torture-porn. They’re the cinematic equivalent of a bully sitting on a weaker kid’s chest while drooling on the kid’s face.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[MarkA16]

You’re right. It’s not scary at all. Edit: Some people like the suspense .

krokal, I bet you are one of those folks that dislike the Harry Potter series because it has witchcraft.

It’s not like the movie is real, or I’m gonna go out and commit something of the sort.

 

[krokal]

krokal, I bet you are one of those folks that dislike the Harry Potter series because it has witchcraft.

It’s not like the movie is real, or I’m gonna go out and commit something of the sort.

Quite the contrary, actually. While I haven’t read any of the Harry Potter books, I enjoy the movies. Harry Potter isn’t about the sadistic torture of human beings; SAW movies are.

Furthermore by your logic in the last sentence, it’s okay for me to watch porn or listen to profane music because I swear I won’t act on either one.

 

[Cat]

I think that parents and other care-givers who allow children to watch questionable television shows, etc. have bought into the “abortion” mentality that these little ones aren’t really children at all, but some kind of “thing” that isn’t truly human.

I’m not sure what they think these “things” are. Blind? Deaf? Dumb?

A few weeks ago we were visiting some relatives. Two little ones were playing on the floor. The adults were watching Desperate Housewives. I 've never seen the show, although my college-aged daughter loves it.

But she’s 21. These little kids were 2 and 4, and during the fifteen minutes that we were visiting, they got to see a mostly naked woman and man who were not married in bed kissing passionately, and a butler interrupt them.

The interesting thing is, the adults we were visiting are enthusiastic members of the local Assemblies of God Church. My heavens, when my husband grew up in the Assemblies of God, his family wasn’t allowed to watch television on Sundays except for “Wonderful World of Disney.” A show like this would have been completely forbidden.

No wonder the A of G is losing members. Of course, they still don’t allow dancing. ???!!! Who makes up their list of rules, anyway?!

My point is that we need to respect children and teenagers and try to shield them from those things that they aren’t old enough to interpret. We need to fight the mentality that children are “pets” or “miniature adults.”

 

[deb1]

I think that parents and other care-givers who allow children to watch questionable television shows, etc. have bought into the “abortion” mentality that these little ones aren’t really children at all, but some kind of “thing” that isn’t truly human.

I’m not sure what they think these “things” are. Blind? Deaf? Dumb?

A few weeks ago we were visiting some relatives. Two little ones were playing on the floor. The adults were watching Desperate Housewives. I 've never seen the show, although my college-aged daughter loves it.

But she’s 21. These little kids were 2 and 4, and during the fifteen minutes that we were visiting, they got to see a mostly naked woman and man who were not married in bed kissing passionately, and a butler interrupt them.

The interesting thing is, the adults we were visiting are enthusiastic members of the local Assemblies of God Church. My heavens, when my husband grew up in the Assemblies of God, his family wasn’t allowed to watch television on Sundays except for “Wonderful World of Disney.” A show like this would have been completely forbidden.

No wonder the A of G is losing members. Of course, they still don’t allow dancing. ???!!! Who makes up their list of rules, anyway?!

My point is that we need to respect children and teenagers and try to shield them from those things that they aren’t old enough to interpret. We need to fight the mentality that children are “pets” or “miniature adults.”

I don’t think that the op is advocating letting little children watch horror movies.

I went to a friend’s house and the father was watching the horror movie, The Messengers with his four year old. I was shocked. I’ve seen this movie and it is a very good,supsenful horror movie but it is not for kids!

She, too, is a very enthusiastic Christian, so I was a surprised that she fond this acceptable for her young child to watch.

 

[deb1]

But Saw and its sequels are not scary. They’re gross-out torture-porn. They’re the cinematic equivalent of a bully sitting on a weaker kid’s chest while drooling on the kid’s face.

– Mark L. Chance.

Although I have seen-I think-three of the Saw movies, I agree with you. My neighbor and I sometimes watch a variety of horror movies and she likes this series, so I watch them with her. The last one bothered me so much, that I left the room and she followed. I don’t think that we will be watching the final Saw.

The Saw movies are becoming more and more about torture and judgement. I am especially concerned with the blurring between good and evil in them. Jigsaw is presented as someone positive who is doing a good service for us by torturing people.

Strange as it sounds, I’ve gotten into discussions with ***adults ***that say that Jigsaw isn’t murdering anyone and that he is just helping the people that he hurts. This drives me nuts, but it also means that people are influenced by such ignorant thinking. The same kind of twisted thinking was used in the movie Seven with Brad Pitt. I disliked that one also.

In normal horror movies, bad is bad. There is no blurring. No one thought that Freddy Kruger was the good guy. He might have been an interesting horror character but we were afraid of him. The director didn’t really try to justify his actions to us.

 

[MarkA16]

Well the only reason I like the Saw series is because of how puzzling it is. It keeps you in the movie, keeps you guessing. I’m not a fan of scary movies, but once I saw the trailer and how people say it’s like a puzzle I had to watch it.

If they replaced the gory scenes with something else but keep the same plot and stuff I would still see it.