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manualman
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From that UK blog link, one almost doesn’t wonder if the Anglican Use ordinariate won’t fairly quickly obliterate the conventional diocesan structure in the UK?
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Alex111
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Unfortunately I think that the former Anglicans will be under the thumb of the diocesan Bishops. The liberal Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales hammered this point home when they said in an official statement “welcoming” and “explaining” the Ordinariate:From that UK blog link, one almost doesn’t wonder if the Anglican Use ordinariate won’t fairly quickly obliterate the conventional diocesan structure in the UK?
**“The [former Anglican] ordinary will exercise collegiate responsibility for implementing the resolutions taken by the conference [Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales] within the life of the ordinariate in the same way that a diocesan bishop does so within his diocese.”
Source here: zenit.org/article-31472?l=english**
Anglicanorum coetibus would seem to back up the English RC Bishops’ statement; it’s extremely vague about whether the Ordinariates will have any protection or independence from liberal diocesan Bishops. Now I’ll be more than happy if time proves me wrong on this, but I think the English RC Bishops are going to find plenty of ways to assert their authority in the Ordinariate; plenty of projects to implement; and the Ordinary will be expected to live up to his “collegiate responsibility” and cooperate.
And as much as I dislike the liberals’ agenda-- feminist linguistic vandalism, gay Masses, signing on to the eco-fascist movement, altar girls, etc.-- they kind of have a point, in that the former Anglicans might be presumptuous to expect special treatment. Traditionalist RCs are treated like pariahs by RC Church leaders-- aggressive liberals and scared “conservatives” alike. Why should traditionalist former Anglican converts expect any different? If I were to convert to Rome, which is increasingly unlikely, I’d bypass the Ordinariate experiment and just try to find a traditionalist parish.
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manualman
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I see your point, but bishops conferences do have a limited ability to pressure ordinaries within their own jurisdiction. For example, the USCCB has been unable to force Nebraska’s Bishop Bruskewitz (sp?) into compliance with some things.
If the ordinariate is empowered to run its own seminaries and parishes, I can’t see how any bishop’s conference would have the authority to restrict valid liturgical practices and doctrinal teachings supported in magisterial teaching. But then, I live a long ways away!
If the ordinariate is empowered to run its own seminaries and parishes, I can’t see how any bishop’s conference would have the authority to restrict valid liturgical practices and doctrinal teachings supported in magisterial teaching. But then, I live a long ways away!
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1holycatholic
Guest
What could the USCCB force on any bishop? The USCCB has no authority.I see your point, but bishops conferences do have a limited ability to pressure ordinaries within their own jurisdiction. For example, the USCCB has been unable to force Nebraska’s Bishop Bruskewitz (sp?) into compliance with some things.
If the ordinariate is empowered to run its own seminaries and parishes, I can’t see how any bishop’s conference would have the authority to restrict valid liturgical practices and doctrinal teachings supported in magisterial teaching. But then, I live a long ways away!
What “thing” is Bishop Bruskewitz not in compliance with?
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Tigg
Guest
I’d like to know the answer to this as well.What could the USCCB force on any bishop? The USCCB has no authority.
What “thing” is Bishop Bruskewitz not in compliance with?
This reminds me of Bsp Martino and his statement “the USCCB doesn’t speak for me” over the Faithful Citizenship doc.
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1holycatholic
Guest
That’s it? Recommendations from a non-authoritative advisory board headed by a layperson? He doesn’t have anything to be in compliance with. The bishop is the authority in his diocese, not a layperson.
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JimG
Guest
Yes, that’s right. This happened a few years back, but Bishop Bruskewitz was, I think, one of the few diocesan bishops to assert his own canonical authority in the matter.That’s it? Recommendations from a non-authoritative advisory board headed by a layperson? He doesn’t have anything to be in compliance with. The bishop is the authority in his diocese, not a layperson.
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RobbyS
Guest
Reese is in the wrong church, but I have news for him. If he leave it up to the laity, many of his reforms could be re-reformed.Fr Reese, SJ should probably just stick to writing books. Vatican and Archbishop were both great, unique works, but everywhere else I see his name, it is always in some kind of rabble-rousing.
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Alex111
Guest
I hope you’re right, but I can easily imagine a liberal diocesan Bishop insisting that the Ordinariate Priests only celebrate Mass versus populum, use altar girls, use cheesy uber-left prayers of the people, or collaborate with some pet “social justice” project that has ties to Alinskyite groups and/or pro-abort groups (for example, in the American Ordinariate, will former Anglican Priests be taking up collections for the CCHD?)…We’ll have to see how it plays out.I see your point, but bishops conferences do have a limited ability to pressure ordinaries within their own jurisdiction. For example, the USCCB has been unable to force Nebraska’s Bishop Bruskewitz (sp?) into compliance with some things.
If the ordinariate is empowered to run its own seminaries and parishes, I can’t see how any bishop’s conference would have the authority to restrict valid liturgical practices and doctrinal teachings supported in magisterial teaching. But then, I live a long ways away!
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laszlo
Guest
Exactly. Only the job is not to dissent against the Magisterium, but find the connection with her and work under its guidance. We are fallible, we do not know good and evil, we need that5 guidance.“maybe God knows what she’s doing,”[he said. “If you don’t have clergy, maybe the job’s yours.”
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manualman
Guest
A board formally established BY the USCCB to which nearly every other bishop in the USA saluted and scrambled to obey. Yes, that board.That’s it? Recommendations from a non-authoritative advisory board headed by a layperson? He doesn’t have anything to be in compliance with. The bishop is the authority in his diocese, not a layperson.
I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that the Anglican Use Ordinariate will be almost the same way. If I understand it correctly, the bishop of the geographical area won’t have any say on the operations of the ordinariate, just like in the US the local bishop has no say in the liturgical practices of priests in the US military in military chapels located in a particular diocese. Instead there is a bishop (ordinary) for the entire military who has that jurisdiction.
That’s why I wondered if this could end up being the tail wagging the dog in the long run!
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