Saying No?

[blessourhome]

I recently read a paragraph in a (Christian) marriage book that said that it is a sin for either spouse to deny the other the marital act, regardless of circumstances such as being too tired, not in the mood, etc. Is this true? Are there circumstances in which one can or should say no?

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

I recently read a paragraph in a (Christian) marriage book that said that it is a sin for either spouse to deny the other the marital act, regardless of circumstances such as being too tired, not in the mood, etc. Is this true? Are there circumstances in which one can or should say no?

**
It isn’t a black and white rule…it has more to do with respecting your spouse. In the “perfect” marriage one spouse would see that the other is really tired and not ask. Or if one asked the tired spouse, the tired spouse would put their spouse’s feelings first and accept the invitation with love…

it is all about being sensitive to each other. No one wants to be rejected. It feels awful. So of course if you really really don’t feel like it you don’t have to… but often times we only think we don’t feel like it. But once you get in the moment you realize that it wasn’t such a bad idea after all.**

 

[Simon_X]

I recently read a paragraph in a (Christian) marriage book that said that it is a sin for either spouse to deny the other the marital act, regardless of circumstances such as being too tired, not in the mood, etc. Is this true? Are there circumstances in which one can or should say no?

Pretty much comes down to respecting each other, whether it’s about sex or helping around the house, or whatever. We all have moments when things don’t quite work for whatever reason, the main thing is to respect and appreciate each other…

 

[Phemie]

Pretty much comes down to respecting each other, whether it’s about sex or helping around the house, or whatever. We all have moments when things don’t quite work for whatever reason, the main thing is to respect and appreciate each other…

I know that in the book my parents were given (55 years ago) it was more one sided: the only time the wife could refuse her husband without sinning was if deathly ill or within the first 40 days postpartum. There was no such penalty on the husband, presumably because the wife would never be the one asking.

There was even a paragraph explaining that if the wife hadn’t reached orgasm with or before the husband, he could ‘caress’ her until she reached orgasm. It was explicitly stated that that by providing her pleasure she would be less likely to be tempted to refuse relations.

While the wife can always say yes, even if she’s tired, that may not work so well for the husband.

I remember laughing when I stumbled on this book when I was a teenager because at the end it said “If you don’t know how to perform your ‘marital duty’ please contact your priest who will request an extra chapter for this book.” I thought that was so funny until my mother let slip that on their honeymoon they knew what they were supposed to do but didn’t know how. I thought that a little strange considering dad was 39, she 28 and dad was a farmer.

 

[LilyM]

I know that in the book my parents were given (55 years ago) it was more one sided: the only time the wife could refuse her husband without sinning was if deathly ill or within the first 40 days postpartum. There was no such penalty on the husband, presumably because the wife would never be the one asking.

There was even a paragraph explaining that if the wife hadn’t reached orgasm with or before the husband, he could ‘caress’ her until she reached orgasm. It was explicitly stated that that by providing her pleasure she would be less likely to be tempted to refuse relations.

While the wife can always say yes, even if she’s tired, that may not work so well for the husband.

I remember laughing when I stumbled on this book when I was a teenager because at the end it said “If you don’t know how to perform your ‘marital duty’ please contact your priest who will request an extra chapter for this book.” I thought that was so funny until my mother let slip that on their honeymoon they knew what they were supposed to do but didn’t know how. I thought that a little strange considering dad was 39, she 28 and dad was a farmer.

Well, to be fair, humans aren’t sheep or cows y’know, we go about things just SLIGHTLY differently from most animals … most of the time, that is

 

[Simon_X]

I know that in the book my parents were given (55 years ago) it was more one sided: the only time the wife could refuse her husband without sinning was if deathly ill or within the first 40 days postpartum. There was no such penalty on the husband, presumably because the wife would never be the one asking.

There was even a paragraph explaining that if the wife hadn’t reached orgasm with or before the husband, he could ‘caress’ her until she reached orgasm. It was explicitly stated that that by providing her pleasure she would be less likely to be tempted to refuse relations.

While the wife can always say yes, even if she’s tired, that may not work so well for the husband.

I remember laughing when I stumbled on this book when I was a teenager because at the end it said “If you don’t know how to perform your ‘marital duty’ please contact your priest who will request an extra chapter for this book.” I thought that was so funny until my mother let slip that on their honeymoon they knew what they were supposed to do but didn’t know how. I thought that a little strange considering dad was 39, she 28 and dad was a farmer.

I don’t doubt that there may have been that kind of thinking long ago, but don’t think that would fly today…Very interesting though…

 

[BamaRider]

I recently read a paragraph in a (Christian) marriage book that said *]that it is a sin for either spouse to deny the other the marital act, regardless of circumstances *

such as being too tired, not in the mood, etc. Is this true? Are there circumstances in which one can or should say no?

Look here, I need ya to fax that paragraph where it says that, so I can tape it the fridge.

 

[Phemie]

Look here, I need ya to fax that paragraph where it says that, so I can tape it the fridge.

But it applies to you too.

 

[iluvmybabies]

WOW that is interesting…I thought it has to be about respect and love not something that you have to? Someone had posted here that if wife refused to have sex with husband it is also means for annulment? SO CONFUSED??? But I thought there was no way to annul a marriage unless it was like a life threatening thing!!!

 

[cthulhubryan]

WOW that is interesting…I thought it has to be about respect and love not something that you have to? Someone had posted here that if wife refused to have sex with husband it is also means for annulment? SO CONFUSED??? But I thought there was no way to annul a marriage unless it was like a life threatening thing!!!

I don’t know about a church annulment, but a civil annulment is generally automatic if the marriage is not consumated after a reasonable length of time (3 months or more)

 

[Pro-Life_Teen]

WOW that is interesting…I thought it has to be about respect and love not something that you have to? Someone had posted here that if wife refused to have sex with husband it is also means for annulment? SO CONFUSED??? But I thought there was no way to annul a marriage unless it was like a life threatening thing!!!

It is supposed to be about love and respect. The assumption with the wife refusing sex was that it was constant and abusive- and that she never meant her marriage vows about being open to life. And the annulment may be granted on those terms- refusing to be open to life.

A marriage can only be annulled if there was no marriage in the first place- an annulment is only affirming that while a wedding took place, both parties may not have been fully aware of what they were getting into/ disagreed with what a marriage is supposed to be.

Refusing to have sex with your spouse gets sinful when it’s abusive or you’re doing it to be closed to life. It is called the marital act for a reason- it should be participated in. Refusing occasionally after a long day isn’t sinning, but refusing for weeks or months [for petty reasons] gets problematic.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

WOW that is interesting…I thought it has to be about respect and love not something that you have to? Someone had posted here that if wife refused to have sex with husband it is also means for annulment? SO CONFUSED??? But I thought there was no way to annul a marriage unless it was like a life threatening thing!!!

It is about mutual respect and love.

I think the annulment question has to do with a wife constantly withholding affection from the husband, and it has to be a defect from the beginning of the marriage.

My brief understanding of annulment is there is a significant defect at the beginning of the marriage that would cause it to be void, so an example would be, husband doesn’t want children, lies and says that he does, and then later the wife finds out the intentions of the husband

 

[iluvmybabies]

Oh ok…thanks for clarifying that…

 

[chevalier]

WOW that is interesting…I thought it has to be about respect and love not something that you have to? Someone had posted here that if wife refused to have sex with husband it is also means for annulment? SO CONFUSED??? But I thought there was no way to annul a marriage unless it was like a life threatening thing!!!

Not a single refusal, really. Someone who is not interested in sex is not interested in a very vital part of marriage. As such, it can be said the person is not interested in marriage, at least in so far as the other person didn’t know and accept that. The bottom line is that one ought not to be egoistic, but one ough to respect the spouse and be considerate.

The husband and the wife have equal rights to the partnership:

Can. 1135 Each spouse has an equal duty and right to those things which belong to the partnership of conjugal life.

I’m not married and perhaps this is why I don’t get it, but why would people who love each other and who took the vows be in disagreement on this? A loving spouse should not deny and a loving spouse should not extort.

 

[BamaRider]

But it applies to you too.

hehehehehe!!

 

[bluerose]

Well, considering my work schedule, I must say that I have rarely said “Not tonight, dear”… but I have said “Okay, but try not to wake me.” :blushing:

I was blessed with a spouse who was blessed with an enormous amount of patience and good humor!

 

[whatevergirl]

**
It isn’t a black and white rule…it has more to do with respecting your spouse. In the “perfect” marriage one spouse would see that the other is really tired and not ask. Or if one asked the tired spouse, the tired spouse would put their spouse’s feelings first and accept the invitation with love…

it is all about being sensitive to each other. No one wants to be rejected. It feels awful. So of course if you really really don’t feel like it you don’t have to… but often times we only think we don’t feel like it. But once you get in the moment you realize that it wasn’t such a bad idea after all.**

Great advice. I agree.

 

[Simon_X]

Well, considering my work schedule, I must say that I have rarely said “Not tonight, dear”… but I have said “Okay, but try not to wake me.” :blushing:

I dont think we guys can get away with that.

 

[bluerose]

Simon,

I think it was Jerry Seinfeld who said that as far as “marital relations” go, men are like firefighters and can be ready in two minutes, whereas women are like fire… very exciting, but the conditions have to be JUST RIGHT for it to happen.

I guess I’m not much of a fireball, but DH is happy and so am I. I guess that’s what counts!

 

[LilyM]

Well, considering my work schedule, I must say that I have rarely said “Not tonight, dear”… but I have said “Okay, but try not to wake me.” :blushing:

I was blessed with a spouse who was blessed with an enormous amount of patience and good humor!

Haha - my sister to this day emphatically states that she just doesn’t remember her second child being conceived, she was working long hours and doubtless adopting your approach to marital canoodling.